I just went down to my lair to teach myself how to splice Sta-Set.
Foolishly, I decided to start right out on my new main sheet. I got to
step #67 of the instructions and something didn’t look right. ****! I
don’t know if I wasn’t paying attention or if the drum was on the
wrong spool but I’ve got Sta-Set X! FYI, you can’t switch mid stream
from the instructions for one type to the other, at least at my level
of experience. Now it’s too short for the main sheet. Anybody want 41
feet of 7/16" Sta-Set X?

Fortunately, it’s just long enough for a new Genoa sheet giving me an
excuse to replace those this year rather than next. N.E. Ropes web
site lists Sta-Set as "Excellent" for jib sheets and Sta-SetX as only
"good". I assume this is because of the better handling qualities of
the former. OTOH I’m always taking up on the headsail sheets on my
wide sheeting base boat so maybe the lower stretch is a good trade
off.

Now my questions:

Will the stiffer Sta-SetX make it harder for my typically young and
inexperienced crews to get the sheets on and off the winches briskly?
Should I just take my lumps and go with the "excellent" regular
Sta-Set?

What is the best headsail sheet attachment method? Clearly I don’t
want a metal flabingis up there flailing around but I’d like to be
able to easily remove the sheets so I can use the same ones on the
working jib. Which knot? Now that I have one half of a set, it’s got
to be a knot that goes in the end. Minimal tendency to hang up on the
stays is also important.

I have a vague memory of something about running a spliced eye through
the clew cringle and then the other sheet through the eye to secure it
and reverse for the other side. Or, maybe each bitter end just goes
through it’s own eye. Anybody have experience with something like
this?


--

Roger Long

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:55:07 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

What is the best headsail sheet attachment method? Clearly I don't
want a metal flabingis up there flailing around but I'd like to be
able to easily remove the sheets so I can use the same ones on the
working jib. Which knot?

All of that is sort of mutually exclusive. If you want to be able to
easily remove the sheets, AND clear easily around the shrouds, your
best bet is a nice sleek metal flabingis. That's what most racing
boats use, and they typically weigh less than the D-ring which can
also give you a good smack.

In lieu of that, there is no substitute for a good bowline knot. It
has been the traditional way for a kazillion years because it is
strong, reliable and easy to untie. The downside is that a bowline
will hang on the shrouds once in a while, and some crew members never
seem to master tying one in a fast and efficient way.

If they can't tie a bowline they shouldn't be on a yacht.


Dennis.

Really? What were some of the circumstances? I almost had one shake loose...
light air, jib flogging gently, short tail on the bowline... but it never
actually happened.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:23:17 -0500, Wayne.B
said:

In lieu of that, there is no substitute for a good bowline knot.

I dunno. I've had singularly bad luck with bowlines' shaking loose. Still
looking for a good substitute.

I'm with you here, well tied bowlines shouldn't come loose often. I've
had it happen a few times on a lazy sheet but I've had more sheets
break than bowlines wiggle loose. I really don't like putting hardware
onto the clews of non-boomed jibs. Jibs will flog and eventually
somebody will get hit by them. I nearly lost my brother when he was
hit by a jib that had tied sheets on it. Knocked him out cold and I'm
sure he'd be dead if we'd had hardware on the clew.

-- Tom

Mys Terry wrote:
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:55:46 GMT, "Dennis Pogson"
wrote:


Wayne.B wrote:
....


If they can't tie a bowline they shouldn't be on a yacht.


Dennis.



Correction: If they can't tie a bowline with one hand they shouldn't be on a
yacht.

Just last season I had to throw my mother-in-law overboard because she
couldn't tie an one handed inverted bowline in the dark in under 5
seconds.

It was a hard decision, but standards must be maintained.

I'm against that also. Jib sheets should be tied with a bowline with 6
inches or so of bitter end. The boat I sail on regularly has fairly old
running rigging, certainly none of it hi-tech. Some of it is quite stiff,
but it's still workable. Never had a problem, but I'm not saying it's
impossible.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm with you here, well tied bowlines shouldn't come loose often. I've
had it happen a few times on a lazy sheet but I've had more sheets
break than bowlines wiggle loose. I really don't like putting hardware
onto the clews of non-boomed jibs. Jibs will flog and eventually
somebody will get hit by them. I nearly lost my brother when he was
hit by a jib that had tied sheets on it. Knocked him out cold and I'm
sure he'd be dead if we'd had hardware on the clew.

-- Tom

Some where, within the last week or two, I read a report about a fellow
who used a bowline to affix his bosuns chair. He was using some new
fangled, high tech rope. Any way, or so the story goes, he was working
on the top of the mast alternatingly putting stress on and off the
bowline. The new fangled rope worked out of the bowline and down he
came. He broke his fall but still screwed up one foot bad enough that
it had to be amputated, eventually.

Sorry but I can not recall the source of this story.

The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have different
characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may need to be
careful. I think that this was some sort of braid over a parallel core
but would not swear to it.

Howard

Mys Terry wrote:
On 12 Mar 2006 14:33:10 -0600, Dave wrote:


On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:23:17 -0500, Wayne.B
said:


In lieu of that, there is no substitute for a good bowline knot.

I dunno. I've had singularly bad luck with bowlines' shaking loose. Still
looking for a good substitute.


In roughly 45 years I've never had that happen. Not once. Are you sure you are
tying it properly? I'm serious.

"Roger Long" wrote:
What is the best headsail sheet attachment method? Clearly I don’t
want a metal flabingis up there flailing around but I’d like to be
able to easily remove the sheets so I can use the same ones on the
working jib. Which knot?


Wrong question.
Why knot?


Wayne.B wrote:
All of that is sort of mutually exclusive. If you want to be able to
easily remove the sheets, AND clear easily around the shrouds, your
best bet is a nice sleek metal flabingis. That's what most racing
boats use, and they typically weigh less than the D-ring which can
also give you a good smack.


Hmm... I don't know of that many boats using metal shackles
on the jib sheets. You can look at pictures from Key West
and see for yourself. You may be thinking of spinnaker clew
shackles, of which there are several types including some
that are made of some type of space age plastic instead of
metal (which I'd prefer if I had to go this route)


In lieu of that, there is no substitute for a good bowline knot. It
has been the traditional way for a kazillion years because it is
strong, reliable and easy to untie. The downside is that a bowline
will hang on the shrouds once in a while, and some crew members never
seem to master tying one in a fast and efficient way.


Another alternative is to put a figure-eight knot thru the
clew in such a way that it passes on the outside of the sail
from the shrouds. I learned to do this with spinnakers and
it also works for jibs. Another alternative is to splice the
sheets together as if you were forming an eye, but instead
have a single tail. This can be fastened either with a
bowline or the figure-eight, and it has less tendency to
catch on the shrouds because it's not being dragged by the
lazy sheet. The splice tends to run smoothly as it's hauled
around.

The problem with a shackle on the jib clew is that it flails
the crap out of everything, including any human flesh that
gets in it's way. For years we sailed boats that used
double-purhcase jib sheets, and so had to have small blocks
at the jib clew. You could often hear the mast ring like a
bell when we tacked, and it was well marked in the area
corresponding to the jib clew.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Mys Terry wrote:
On 12 Mar 2006 14:33:10 -0600, Dave wrote:


On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:23:17 -0500, Wayne.B
said:


In lieu of that, there is no substitute for a good bowline knot.

I dunno. I've had singularly bad luck with bowlines' shaking loose. Still
looking for a good substitute.


In roughly 45 years I've never had that happen. Not once. Are you sure you are
tying it properly? I'm serious.


Maybe he should 'whip' the loose end with waxed twine.

What about this idea I'm leaning towards at this point?

Put a generous sized eyesplice in each sheet and simply bring the
bitter end back through the eye.

I wish I hadn't already bought one half of the sheet accidentally
because just putting a bight in the middle through the cringle and
bringing both bitter ends through it make the most sense to me this
morning.

It seems like this is something there should be a standard for in
traditional boats. I'm surprised I never picked it up from my tarred
hemp and baggywrinkle days. After all, there is a "Topsail Sheet
Bend". That's almost exactly the same requirements as a headsail so,
why isn't it a "Sail Bend" or isn't there a "Jib Sheet Bend". I asked
over at the Wooden Boat Forum where people obsess about these things
and didn't get an answer.

--

Roger Long



"DSK" wrote in message
...
"Roger Long" wrote:
What is the best headsail sheet attachment method? Clearly I don’t
want a metal flabingis up there flailing around but I’d like to be
able to easily remove the sheets so I can use the same ones on the
working jib. Which knot?


Wrong question.
Why knot?


Wayne.B wrote:
All of that is sort of mutually exclusive. If you want to be able
to
easily remove the sheets, AND clear easily around the shrouds, your
best bet is a nice sleek metal flabingis. That's what most racing
boats use, and they typically weigh less than the D-ring which can
also give you a good smack.


Hmm... I don't know of that many boats using metal shackles on the
jib sheets. You can look at pictures from Key West and see for
yourself. You may be thinking of spinnaker clew shackles, of which
there are several types including some that are made of some type of
space age plastic instead of metal (which I'd prefer if I had to go
this route)


In lieu of that, there is no substitute for a good bowline knot.
It
has been the traditional way for a kazillion years because it is
strong, reliable and easy to untie. The downside is that a bowline
will hang on the shrouds once in a while, and some crew members
never
seem to master tying one in a fast and efficient way.


Another alternative is to put a figure-eight knot thru the clew in
such a way that it passes on the outside of the sail from the
shrouds. I learned to do this with spinnakers and it also works for
jibs. Another alternative is to splice the sheets together as if you
were forming an eye, but instead have a single tail. This can be
fastened either with a bowline or the figure-eight, and it has less
tendency to catch on the shrouds because it's not being dragged by
the lazy sheet. The splice tends to run smoothly as it's hauled
around.

The problem with a shackle on the jib clew is that it flails the
crap out of everything, including any human flesh that gets in it's
way. For years we sailed boats that used double-purhcase jib sheets,
and so had to have small blocks at the jib clew. You could often
hear the mast ring like a bell when we tacked, and it was well
marked in the area corresponding to the jib clew.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King