Ki-yaker wrote :

I see myself as a seeker of
the truth. I have stated previously that pfd's cannot be compared to automobile
seatbelts or motorcycle helmets.

Very Zen, but your pronouncement is only your opinion not a fact.

I was on the ACA National BoD and sat on the Safety, Education, and Instruction Committee for 5 years. Between the two of us I'd
say I have a much better feel for the ACA than you and I know of no one there that would say wearing a PFD or not should be a
political statement. In fact PFD's are mandatory in ACA classes and events. What is not revealed in any stats is how many people did
not drown or suffer injury because they were wearing PFD's. Many multiples of swimmers out of boats are not statistics because they
wore a PFD. That's the important stat. One cannot just look at just the fatalities. There's nothing any of us can do to prevent
fatalities but we should as prudent individuals practice all the prevention possible. It all about prevention Scott.

My opinions were formed during several episodes rescuing people who were not wearing PFDs. It is hugely more difficult. A swimmer's
chances of being pulled out by a rescuer are much better when wearing a PFD. It all about prevention Scott. Just something as simple
as having shoulder straps to grab on an unconcious swimmer is a big aid in rescue. An unconcious individual without a PFD is dead
weight and extremely difficult manage. Rescuing a swimmer in serious trouble in the water is a scary and impatient endeavor. Time is
of the essense and a PFD gives us time. Believe me rescuers appreciate rescuees who are wearing a PFD. Many rescuers drown as a
result of the stepladder action and that happens when the victim is without PFD. Not wearing a PFD may be an idealized political
statement of personal freedom but it's also very selfish.

I could go on but I it appears to me you've made up your mind, so to answer your questions remember, it's all about prevention
Scott.


"Ki Ayker" wrote in message ...

Someone finally got to the real issue here, but it goes further than just
insurance. These personal freedom folks who don't wear
motorcylcle helmets, car seatbelts, PFD's, ad infinitum, fully expect the
rest of society to suck up the social and actual costs of
their rescues and injuries when they occur.


The real issue here? Personal freedom folks? Oh really? I do not consider
myself to be a "personal freedom" zealot. Instead I see myself as a seeker of
the truth. I have stated previously that pfd's cannot be compared to automobile
seatbelts or motorcycle helmets. Both have been shown beyond any reasonable
doubt to make a significant contribution towards safety on the road. But since
you insist on lumping pfd's into the equation then I would very much appreciate
it if you could state your sources which show the pfd to be of equal
effectiveness to the automobile seatbelt or the motorcycle helmet.
Ulli mentioned the report released by the American Canoe Association
entitled, Critical Judgment, Understanding and Preventing Canoe and Kayak
Fatalities." Although I believe they have taken some liberties with some of
their conclusions, let us nonetheless take a quick peek at that report, shall
we?
On page 17 it is reported that;

"Operator inexperience or inattention and hazardous water or weather by
themselves, or combined with other factors, were the major causes of canoe and
kayak fatalities. These factors accounted for 57% of all canoeing fatalities,
and for 90% of all kayaking fatalities."

Hmmm, no mention of a pfd there. Then on page 18 is a chart which shows that in
the years from 1996 to 2000, 50% of the kayaking fatalities WERE WEARING PFD's,
while 44% were not! This hardly presents a startling picture of the
effectiveness of pfd's in kayaking. Yet so many of you insist that pfd's are
the answer and anyone who paddles a kayak without wearing one should be
punished! Why? No, really, I would like to know. Why? Since you people are so
fervently adamant about pfd's then I'm certain your opinions must be based on
some pretty substantial evidence which somehow I managed to overlook. So please
enlighten me! I'm all ears.

Scott
So.Cal.