On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 07:02:14 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 12/29/16 1:44 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 14:54:57 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:



2. No, I'm not. I asked you - twice - a fairly specific question that
had nothing to do with something you read and reported on in high
school.

You obviously don't understand that you aren't in charge here, and can't demand answers that you seek.


I asked, asshole, I didn't demand.

You asked me to create a case for something based on a theory I did
not agree with. I gave you the best case I could make for how the
exceptionalism created by the pioneering experience would affect the
advancement of black people and I gave it to you. Pioneers were less
likely to have prejudices against black people.
If I step back and look at Turner a century later, I see a different
thing. That pioneering spirit and independence that exists is still
concentrated outside the big cities in flyover country. The people in
the cities, like you, are reaching back to Europe for the model of how
you want the democracy to go on. You want an all powerful government,
more akin to a monarchy than a democracy.
Is Trump the outcome of that experience Turner says molded our
democracy?


Actually, I was referring to how the white man's expansion of the west,
as outlined by Turner, caused the end of native American society and
culture, for the most part. The white man went everywhere, leaving no
stone unturned, as it were. There were no reasonable places for the
native Americans to hide. Had the blacks been able to do this in the
40s, 50s, and 60s, going everywhere, as it were, and leaving no areas
unintegrated, we would have today a far different less much less
segregated society, because "white flight" would have been
meaningless...there would be black faces everywhere. HUD tried to do
some of this in the 1970s and 1980s, but the attempts to require
inclusion of lower income properties in or adjacent to "fancy"
subdivisions was only modestly successful.

To start with this has little to do with Turner's thesis. The black
people who did have the pioneering spirit, did go west. That has
nothing to do with the government building "projects" in the suburbs.
Don't you think economic issues have as much to do with this as skin
color? Nobody living in a rich neighborhood wants a title 9 housing
project next door. You also have the problem that there is no welfare
money to be had out in the hinterlands. We have already had this
conversation when I suggested LBJ caused a lot of these problems by
piling the welfare money up in the big cities and now we see the
result. That is where the concentrations of poverty are.