On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 13:57:35 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/1/2018 12:56 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 11/1/18 12:52 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 06:48:50 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 10/31/18 8:04 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 14:58:56 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

The big difference, of course, is that Ovbamna was trying to help the
immigrants, whileÂ* Trump is trying to ****Â* them over.

I am really surprised you are so anxious to bring all of these
immigrants in because I know them and they are certainly a threat to
those fat, lazy union workers you hold so dear. I Latino crew will out
work your anglos all day long, work for less and be ready to work a
job without 4 or 5 years of carrying a journeyman's tools and fetching
his coffee.


Just because you neverÂ* had the skills to hold down a union construction
job in the skilled trades in complexÂ* commercial constructionÂ* is no
reason to knock those who do. YourÂ* disdain for formal trainingÂ* in
justÂ* aboutÂ* every fieldÂ* is laughable. If you never need surgery, I
suggest you find aÂ* corpsman insteadÂ* of a surgeon.

You are simply full of ****. I would go up against a journeyman
electrician any day of the week and know a hell of a lot more than
most. I can also keep up with plumbers.
The point is they have dumbed down the skill necessary to do most
trades with newer materials and methods to the point that a fairly
recent immigrant will be working in a trade and be as effective as
anyone in months, not years.
That is particularly true in residential but they now allow Romex in
most light commercial too. The same is true of "plastic" plumbing.

Union apprenticeship programs are more about slowing down people
coming into the trade than in the training necessary to actually do
the job. We are not packing terra cotta drain pipe with oakum and
pouring the joints full of lead. They prime the pipe, put some PVC
cement on the pipe and paste it together.Â* The pressure side is going
to be pex tubing as often as not. It takes about an hour to get
certified on the termination method. (an expanded sleeve that snaps
over the joint). Then you just roll it out, strap it and hook it up.
Electricians are not threading Rigid Metal Pipe, they are dragging
Romex around. They don't even staple it anymore, they use tywraps and
the plastic boxes have push in internal clamps.
I am sure that if you went through the IBEW apprenticeship program
some old fart would spend 4 years telling you how they used to do
things back in the day but none of it is any more relevant than
teaching a tire changer how to shoe a horse.



I know a woman who is an IBEW journeyman out in San Francisco who is the
chief "trade" operator at a large industrial power plant. You couldn't
open her car door in terms of skill and knowledge. Couple of my union
buddies build nuclear and chemical plant plumbing. They might let you
refill the teepee rolls in the head.


Being union is not a prerequisite for designing and/or building nuclear
or chemical plumbing. In the trades, it is not required to be union for
a welder, for example, to be "N" code certified.

My company was never union but we worked on projects that required a "N"
code in their design and construction.

I know you didn't say that but it was sorta implied ... again.


The prettiest "pipe" work I ever saw was at Hendry Correctional, done
by inmates. I suppose they could have been IBEW master electricians
but they were in prison for dealing drugs.