Thanks all for your posts. I'm doing some reading now and will be sure to
post when I have started building - something. I am finding it hard to
decide against the beauty of the One Ocean boat but the pure utility of a
folder has a very strong pull. What a great problem to have - many wonderful
designs to choose from!

Ken

"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...

John Fereira wrote:
Following up to both posts.

"Tinkerntom" wrote in
news:1110685668.227862.222450
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:


No Spam wrote:
Big snip---

Hey Tom, have you seen the Yost boats in person? I found his web
site
very intriguing. I have been wanting to do a stitch and glue from
One
Ocean but have not started yet and the idea of a boat that I could
easily take on a family vacation has me thinking about trying that
one
first. I just would like to have an opinion from someone that has
eyeballed or better yet paddled one of these boats. If I remember
correctly you have a folding boat from one of the manufacturers
right?

Someone local built one (I think it was the Sea Rover) and I even got
the
chance to paddle it a bit (while he paddled my cedar strip Outer
Island). I
liked how it paddled but he wasn't quite finished with it. He hadn't
built
the wood floor yet so the hull flexed much more than it should have.
As a
result, the hull would flex when making a tight low brace or bow
rudder turn
and make the boat spin on a dime. However, when trying to roll it,
the boat
would flex when I hip-snapped the middle of the boat would lift. I
had to
really slow down the roll or perform a layback, and without the wood
floor
it was a bit uncomfortable laying back against the cockpit combing.
It also
had a couple of leaks that the builder hadn't fixed yet so it got
real
slugish after a few deep edged turns.

I do not plan on rolling my Super, though some double mens team have
demonstrated rollong the newer Greenland II. They had to really work
hard to get it to go over, and with the spray skirts kept most of the
water out. Then what we do is have a bilge pump (Manual and Electric)
to pump out the water that may get in. This is good also if you have a
slow leak. Yost boast are much smaller volume I believe, and tighter
combing, so I don't think he worries so much about bilge water.

Ralph Diaz, admits that he is terrible at rolling, having never had to
learn until recently. Then he used a hard shell, and still does not
expect to roll SOF. The northern native cultures obyiously have
learned, and taught the Euro hard shell crowd the "eskimoe roll", but
in RL, rolling is a survival technique since most of them do not know
how to swim from what I have read, and wet exits are not an alternative
in the extremely cold Arctic water. They design their boats to stay
upright, and not as roll toys! Though they excel in boat handling and
this includes 30 some different types of rolls.

The flex is something that bagboaters learn to expect, and actually
desire as it gives you a better feel for the water. In heavy seas, the
boat does not fight the water so much as a hard shell, and especially
under these conditions, can out perform hard shell. I have read
accounts of a mix of boats paddling together, and when the seas get
higher, the bagboat will pull away from the hard shells to the surprise
of the hard shell crowd, and the delight of the bagboater!



Do you find that it is capable of taking the abuse of hitting
bottom
now and again? Do you use float bags or a sea sock?

I would probably go with float bags although finding some that would
fit
such a low volume boat (or a sea sock for that matter) might be
difficult.
They could probably be made though.

I have probably 10 different flotation bags, plus all gear is in sealed
dry bags, and all are strapped in for load stability; flotation at the
top of the load. Most don't use sea socks, since if you get water in
sock, you have to get out of it to dump, unless you pump. They also
restrict movement within cockpit.


Ken

I'm in favor of that darkside metamorphosis, Yost being a
neighbor
of mine here in Denver, and him making some dandy boats. Though
I
don't know whether riverman is inclined to the hobby craftsmen
aspect of building your own, besides having the time between now
and
going to, is it HK. TnT


I have corresponded with him, about getting together, but have yet
to
do so. He is real approachable and glad to talk boats.

I also corresponded wth Tom a bit and he assured me that the problems
I had
with the boat I paddled were due to the construction, not the design.
I may
have to build one to find out how it's *supposed* to paddle.



Most of the Bagboaters put sacrificial strips on the hull along the
longerons to take the abuse. I recently found some special PVC tape
that I am going to try using. It comes with some very sticky
waterproof
adhesive, is UV resistant, and is solid 10 mil thick. Most packing
tape
is 1 or 2 mil, so gives you an idea, and there is not cloth backing
like duct tape.

You got a source for that tape? If I build one I might want to use
some as
well.

The tape is pipe wrapping tape, and should be available from plumbing
supply. It is used for wraping underground pipes. I found mine on Ebay,
at Toolprice.com.

Some of the guys have used the duct tape which is good
for about a season, and then you replace it.

Most of the newer boats use a Hypalon hull which is probably
tougher,
but is also a little more involved to work on. Most of the guys
seem to
be really happy with it, and say it should last 30-40 years.

I've seen a few original Folbots that were 30 years old.

Some of the newer Folbots, are comparable to Hard shell, and the
Feathercraft I've heard, actually will out perform some of the high
end
sea kayaks.

I paddled a Feathercraft Khastlano about 5 years ago and liked it
quite a
bit though I don't know about it out performing a hardshell. Some
claim
that the flex in the hull makes it more seaworthy in rough seas than
a
hardshell. The Khastlano is also something like $4,000.


There is a Yahoo group for Bagboaters where they talk about all
this
stuff. They tend to be orientated to trying all kinds of
modifications
since the platform is very flexible and frindly to us Tinkers! TnT

Ralph Diaz frequently posts to the Paddlewise mailing list as well as

another Ralph from somewhere in Europe that promotes the Pouch Boats.

R. Diaz is not as active posting as he use to be, but there are lots of
his articles available on line, and in bookstores. His material is
considered the Reference for bagboaters. TnT