On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 15:24:01 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .

1) You have a short memory. We've discussed this. You are not permitted
to
use the word "socialism" unless you understand it. You do not understand
it.
If you disagree with me, please explain socialism and how it applies to
this
discussion.

I could give you the dictionary definition or the practical one. Which
one do you want? In either case, a system which artificially relocates
wealth from those who work for it to those who don't, is blatantly
unfair to those who work hard. It also promotes a sense of mediocrity,
as it remove incentives to better oneself. If one can make a living
wage as a street sweeper, why take on the additional responsibility
and stress of being a rocket scientist or CEO, if the rewards are not
that much greater?

You are not aware of anyone suggesting that the street sweeper should be
paid like a neurosurgeon. If you THINK you're aware of someone saying such
things, you have erroneously focused your attention on an idiot.

Then you have no problem with the wages paid to Wal-Mart employees?


2) There's nothing wrong with classes within society, as long as people
are
free to choose their place.

That is precisely what we have. The problem is that many people's
class is the product of either poor choices or lack of ambition. Many
on the left feel that these people are victims, rather than
participants in their own situation, and that the rest of us should be
bound to "do something" about it.

Right. That's like "some". But not all. The welfare system is gradually
being overhauled to give certain people a kick in the pants. You know that.
You read the grownup news, right? You've heard reports about some of the
successes and failures of the new program.

Thanks largely to the efforts of conservatives who are sick and tired
of carrying dead weight. If it were up to liberals, we'd still be
mollycoddling those slackers. What infuriates me the most is having to
listen to the poor urban black single mom complaining about being cut
off, and her advocates attempting to turn the situation into a racial
issue.



If I'm happy laying bricks, and my lack of
stress leads my doctor to say I'm the healthiest man he's ever seen,
that's
my choice. If, on the other hand, I can accept chaos and stress and
choose
to be an emergency room doctor, that also my choice.

Then don't complain if you can't afford to live the same standard of
life that your CEO neighbor lives.

You are not aware of any bricklayers who think they should live in $3
million homes like a neurosurgeons.

I know a TON of people who think they should get the same thing as a
"rich" guy. To them, no one deserves to be rich, if the rest of us
can't be either.


If you THINK you're aware of someone
saying such things, you have erroneously focused your attention on an idiot
or a whiner.

Most of them are. And most of them also buy into the left's idea of
socialism and the redistribution of wealth. They also, by no
coincidence, have little comprehension of the concept of personal
responsibility, and have been brought up in the "entitlement"
generation.




You are not aware of anyone suggesting that the salary of the ER doctor
should be lowered to the level of what the bricklayer is paid.

Not, actually just the opposite. Many of you on the left feel that the
bricklayer should be paid close to what the ER doctor is paid. Support
of unions is a prime example of promoting a disproportionate wage for
the intrinsic value of an un- or under skilled labor job.

Maybe we'd better establish some definitions. By "ER doctor", I'm not
talking about someone who's only been out of med school for a couple of
years. Their life is hell for awhile. I'm talking about a seasoned doctor
whose salary is at least in the $100-$300K range. Having established this
idea, I can say with 100% accuracy that you're not aware of anyone claiming
a union carpenter's salary should suddenly be boosted to anywhere near that
range. If a tradesman wants that kind of money, he usually goes independent
and becomes a builder, rather than hiring out for other peoples' projects.


As long as there is a wide disparity in wages, there will be those who
cry about the inequality and the unfairness of it all. But as long as
some skills are more valuable than others there will always be a
disparity in wages, in a free market economy. But that doesn't stop
the socialists from trying to artificially "correct" this through
lopsided tax rates or other methods of taking from those who earn to
give to those who don't.

Dave.