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in article , Steve Cramer at
wrote on 10/12/05 10:07 PM:

Roger Houston wrote:

Now, this raises another point -- and one that at least in part contributed
to my misinterpretation of the characterization of the first boat as a
"beginner's" boat.

I've been in whitewater on a raft, and the prospect of being on it in a solo
kayak seemed to me to be somewhat daunting. Would you expose a "raw"
kayaking beginner to whitewater? I personally wouldn't -- I'd want the
individual to have had at least some experience paddling, turning, rolling,
bracing, getting a feel for tipping so that the counterintuitive response to
a broach on a rock would be less counterintuitive, etc.

How raw is raw? In the 10+ years I've been teaching WW canoe and kayak,
I put beginners on Class I-II (well, there's a II++ at the end of one
river) after 5 or 6 hours of fla****er instruction. I also put touring
boaters in the surf on day 2. They generally do fine. Most of them can't
roll at the time of their first river trip, but that doesn't dempen
their enthusiasm any.

That's yet another reason I was somewhat incredulous that the "Sit And Spin"
was a "beginner's" boat. A beginning whitewater paddlers, boat -- yeah,
probably, as you guys have pointed out. A beginner's kayak, period? Heck,
no.

We've had discussions about the concept of "beginner's boats" here in
the past. A lot of what pass for beginner boats are really dead end
boats (I don't mean this in a disparaging way. Some of my friends have
happily put a lot of miles on Pungos). But many boats sold as beginner
boats are designed to get you on the water with the minimum investment
of $ and learning time. Nothing wrong with that if you just want
something to keep at the lake house for guests to dink around with, but
these types of boats do not lead to increased mastery of the skill of
paddling. They tend to be too stable, among other things, so that you
can't learn to edge into turns. You can't roll them, and you certainly
can't learn to roll in them. They are not suited for anything but very
sheltered water.

So if you want to paddle WW, it's better to start in a real WW boat,
although probably not the latest and greatest (and smallest) playboat.
Someting more like, dare I say, an Animas. On the other hand, if you're
serious about touring, you probably need a touring boat narrower than
25" and longer than 14'. Ideally, one boat could do it all, but it
can't, any more than one bicycle or car can take you from dirt to
asphalt. So it's necessary to try a few things out to see whether you
want to put the effort into learning them. Maybe a little frustrating at
first, but it can pay off later.

Geez, a "professional" who doesn't sound like an asshole, and actually has
something valuable to share other than "the water is dangerous, don't go
there without me or you'll surely die."

Great comments and advice.

So, just so I understand...you start the learners out in flat water, and
then I/II (where they may will end up swimmming) and then they move to more
tricky areas as there abilities increase. Sounds good. Sounds also like what
someone learning on their own might do.

What say you Michael? Is Roger an out of control wild man with this
approach?