"Oci-One Kanubi" wrote in message
ups.com...
KMAN wrote:
"Steve Cramer" wrote in message
...
"KMAN" wrote
My part in the discussion came about because I felt that opinions were
being expressed to suggest that one cannot learn to kayak without
professional instruction.

Who ever said such a thing? Could you please quote that post? Mike has
been pretty clear that instruction is a good thing, and you have been
pretty clear on the opposite sentiment, that it's better to figure out
things on your own.

In another thread you said "The common assumption is often that
learning
is something to rush through in order to arrive at enjoyment. Well, if
you
like sex that last about 30 seconds, then I guess that's the right
philosophy! Personally I find the journey is just as important as the
destination, and that goes for paddling too :-) " and "Learning is
exciting. The problem is some people think it is something to
avoid or get past as quickly as possible. "

That's rather far from my ideas. I'll suggest a couple a things that I
believe, that you apparently don't.

1. Knowledge and skill are beter than ignorance. We begin every new
activity in a state of ignorance. Most people do in fact choose to get
past that state fairly rapidly, because...

2. Activities pursued skillfully are more fun than those pursued
clumsily.
This is certainly true for boating. Being able to place the boat where
you
want it, to play, to surf: that's great fun. More fun than just
floating
down the river because you don't know how to paddle skillfully.

You are falling into the same trap of assuming that learners who do not
hire
professionals to teach them are incapable of advancing beyond floating
down
the river. Thus my participation in this thread, as this is wholly
untrue.

"Learning is exciting," you say, which is certainly true, but then you
say
"some people think it is something to avoid or get past as quickly as
possible." You NEVER get past learning. All the same, I can't imagine
anyone saying, as you seem to, "I'm in no hurry to get skillful; I'd
like
to remain ignorant and clumsy as long as possible."

I've said no such thing. I've been trying to explain that people can and
to
become skillful without professional instructino. I think I've been
pretty
clear about that. Maybe take a read through again.

Human history shows, pretty clearly, that the human mind, in a cultural
vacuum, can't teach itself much of anything. All human knowlege and
progress has been a process of accretion, of building upon the
discoveries of the many who have gone before. Newton wouldn't have
invented the calcucus if he hadn't algebra and trigonometry in his back
packet, eh?

When you say a person can teach himself to paddle, you are correct to a
degree: he can distill all the books and films he has seen on the
subject, or noticed occuring on a lake as he drives by, to get some
sense of the basic idea, then he can experiment to refine that idea in
the face of ugly reality -- the boat does NOT float straight and swift
in the direction the paddler wills -- until he can achieve something
acceptable. But without the prior concept of how a canoe or kayak is
supposed to behave, an innocent human would not know to keep trying
different things until he achieved successful boat control. So, in a
sense, no-one in the 21st century has the opportunity to teach himself
from scratch.

Ridiculous. You mean you think that someone who has never seen or heard of a
boat before paddling on one side only and going in circles would just give
up and say "Oh well?" You don't think they might try paddling on both sides?

The way knowlege works is that the discoveries -- the little "better
ways" -- of many people -- are gathered up and integrated by scholars
of the subject (or, in our case, the practioners of the sport) who
share their collected wisdom with one another, and eventually compile a
cononical "best way" to do a thing (understand, this is not necessarily
the *actual* best way, but it is usually a pretty darned good way, and
until a Dick Fosbury comes along, is usually the best way known). Then
these scholars turn around and teach it back to the masses. IOW, the
zillion tiny discoveries that trickle up from the masses to the
"scholars" are then organized, integrated, and passed back down, as
"instruction".

Sure, anyone can go out and struggle, and maybe have fun on a lake or
river. But people who take the trouble to engage an instructor to pass
over this accretion of knowlege will forever laugh at those trying to
"reinvent the wheel". We look at you flailing down the river the way
we look at George W. Bush when he claims "I don't believe in global
warming" or "intelligent design is valid science;" we sneer at willful
ignorance. But we don't necessarily sneer at people who aren't
interested in becoming serious boaters, but merely wish to splash, or
fish, or lollygag around in a boat.

The pompous and arrogant assumption is that the self-taught practioner will
only ever be capable of paddling in a pond or arm-paddling. This simply
isn't always true, not in kayaking, and not in other sports.

Those who become truly skillful without professional instruction only
do so by watching other people who *have* had such instruction, and
enulating them.

Balderdash.

They're not working it out for themselves from
scratch, I guarantee you. One might say they are freeloading on those
who do choose to support an infrastructure of "professionals".

-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty

Well, as humans we are constantly adjusting what we do and say based on our
observations and interactions with others. But the idea that the world is
all about non-profressionals free-loading on professionals is total hogwash.
In the case of most of academia, it is rather the opposite. People are out
doing things - oblivious to the existence of academics and their work - and
the academics then write about what is happening and seek credit, fame and
fortune for their brilliant observations of the life that is happening
beyond the ivory tower.