"NotNow" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:
"Loogypicker" wrote in message
...
On Nov 3, 2:23 pm, Tosk wrote:
In article 376ab62b-c969-4f58-9ac0-80139e5831d7
@p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...







On Nov 3, 1:27 pm, NotNow wrote:
Tosk wrote:
In article fef40ffb-ca78-4a34-97fe-1f5ba4ada116
@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com, says...
On Nov 3, 7:10 am, Tosk wrote:
In article ,

says...
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:41:32 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.c....View&FileStor...
So as a man who studies this type of thing in much more depth
than I,
what do you think of our "significant" number of BOEs as
compared to all
other countries with the exception of Russia?
Noted that the vast majority of our reserves are in coal.
Two things come immediately to mind.
One - we need to make more use of the proven coal reserves up to
and
including gasification, liquification and burning. We need to
work on
clean coal technology and CO2 sequestration by allowing more
pilot
plants and research into various techniques. That's where we seem
to
be failing miserably.
A recent example is what's happened in Lindon, NJ. I forget the
company, but they wanted to build a 750 megawatt coal fired
station,
sequester the CO2 by pumping it offshore into a salt dome where
it
woud stay permanently locked up. The technology is available now
and
it seems like a good concept. Unfortunetly, the Enviromentalists
are
creating havoc with the plan to the point where it probably will
be
abandoned thus losing the facility and needed power generation.
Two - we need to start exploring and drilling off on our own to
see
what may, or may not, be easily accessible onshore, inshore and
offshore. There are some areas off New Jersey and California that
appear to have the correct geological formations (domes, salt
domes
and such) to contain easily recoverable oil - some think the
equal of
all that Arabian Peninsula has ever contained, but we aren't
allowed
to drill for various reasons - mostly political. And it's not
like new
discoveries are impossible - consider Brazil's Guari and Tupi
fields
which are recent discoveries - it's out there, we just have to
find
it.
Here's a list for you to consider - the amount of fossil fuel
needed
to produce 1,000,000 BTUs.
Natural Gas: 1,000 cubic feet
Coal: 83.34 pounds @ 12,000 Btu/pound
Propane: 10.917 gallons @ 91,000 Btu/gallon
Gasoline: 8.0 gallons @125,000 Btu/gallon
Fuel Oil #2: 7.194 gallons @ 139,000 Btu/gallon
Fuel Oil #6: 6.67 gallons @ 150,000 Btu/gallon
You'd need a lot of wind farms and solar panels to produce
similar
results to fossil fuels.
Nice summary....we have some work to do, particularly on the
political
front.
What cracks me up is the idea that a 100 by 100 foot fenced off
area for
drilling might hurt migrating animals, but 40 acres of solar panels
is
just fine...
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If a fence is put across a migration route, that's totally different
from a solar array that is off of the ground.
Really, these are "off the ground" enough to not effect migration?
Bull...
This is not far enough off the ground for migration, acres and
acres...
http://www.treehugger.com/solar-farm-array-bavaria.jpg
http://teeic.anl.gov/images/photos/Nrel_flatPV15539.jpg
http://green-gossip.com/wp-content/u...bhagats_solar-
array.jpg
http://images.publicradio.org/conten...6_solar-farm2_
33.jpg
Compared to this...
http://www.making-ripples.com/images...image013_2.jpg
http://www.questdrilling.com/images/index1.jpg
http://www.airphotona.com/stockimg/images/00198.jpg
http://www.valleyserver.com/images/R...web%20copy.jpg
You tell me which is more invasive.. Besides, do you know how toxic
the
areas in china where they make these panels is?
Manufacturing in the U.S. and thus gaining jobs will fix that. What
could be more "invasive" than a fence built on a migration route? Next
you'll be trying to tell everyone that mining oil sands is good for
the
environment.
Lovely site, isn't it?
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...son.com/images...
I've spent more time on hundreds of drilling rigs in remote places in
the western USA than I care to remember. The wildlife paid very
little attention to them. In fact, one of the greatest dangers was
not from the drilling operations but from the hazard of hitting an
elk, deer or antelope while trying to get to the rig. I've been on
rig sites that were abandoned and a month later in WY you could not
tell where it had been they were so good at replacing the terrain and
vegetation.
In AK, where the AK pipeline was a major controversy in the early 70s
with people worrying about its effect on wildlife, the wildlife
ignores it because it is built so they can walk under it. Rig sites
are similar, animals ignore them and once the drill rig is gone with
the final pumps in place occupying only a few square feet ther eis no
effect at all on the animals.
I have also flown at low altitude over arrays of wind turbines and was
appalled at how destructive they were to the environment. Each
required a road to service the turbine regularly and the turbines were
like ugly blotches on the ridges. By contrast, the average
producing oil well can barely be noticed even from low altitude and
gas wells are even more invisible.
Large arrays of solar receivers are likely to be extremely destructive
to the local environment by blocking sunlight to the ground and
blocking air flow and generally being a permanent impediment to
wildlife movement. By contrast, drilling operations are short lived
and a producing well is very inobtrusive.
Thanks for clarifying that even though I am sure several here will poo,
poo, it. Those arrays must destroy the landscape, they allow nothing to
"be" around them. Grass, animals, etc. can't survive with them. That is
why I have so much cynicism about the proponents, with so many of their
arguments being so ridiculous and blatantly false...

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You're against solar power why?

I live near one of the largest wind farm areas in the world. The
complaints are they kill lots of raptors. And they do. They are high
enough that the cows and 4 legged critters do not get hit, but the birds
going after the huge rodent populatin are decimated. Go to the Oil Patch
of Calif. Taft. Oil pipes and pumps everywhere. Seems to be ok for the
rodents, birds and coyotes. Not a lot of deer in the desert.
Ummmm, I was talking about solar arrays......

Commercial Solar Arrays are huge and they are near the ground. Costs lots
of money to raise them in to the air. Other than the ones like at Cal Expo,
and my local Junior College, that are on platforms over the parking lot,
they are on the ground. I do not know ff the big solar heated power plant
at Barstow is still operating, but all the mirrors were near the ground and
the tower was a couple hundred feet tall. There were no animals running
around them, except maybe a mouse or rat.

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy01osti/28751.pdf has pictures of the plant.