I've got more than enough time on the water in my fine
vessels both offshore and nearshore to renew easily.

I won't have to retake any test questions but even if I
did it would be no problem because I know all the answers
by virtue of my superior understanding of the COLREGS.

What you have yet to learn is a superior understanding of
the Rules comes only after years of study and years of
practical application in a small sailing vessel. Sitting in
a wheelhouse on some big ship sheltered from the wind,
the waves, normal ocean sounds and sights simply gives
you a case of the 'armchair motorboater's syndrome"
which results in impaired sensory input, impaired reaction,
impaired application of the Rules and impaired responsibility.

Being on the receiving end of motorboater ignorance and
arrogance of which you, Shen44, and Jeff Morris display
and abundance, is the best way to learn the ins and outs of
the Rules provided one can survive your attempts to run
us down. I have survived and I shall continue to survive and
learn. I welcome all your displays of ignorance because they
allow me to become stronger and safer since I know how
the levels of ignorance upon which you all proceed impair
your judgment and required action.

I realize you three don't have a clue what 'shall not impede'
means because you have proven you are all clueless.

I realize you will persist in impeding vessels you are supposed
to give a wide berth in any condition of visibility and this makes
you all the more dangerous in restricted visibility. I know your
pride does not allow you to believe that motorboats must
give way to any and all vessels signaling one prolonged/two
short blasts in a fog. I know you will wrongly interpret the
Rules so you will end up violating them by creating a close
quarters situation in your ignorance.

Thank God I know all this or I would have been run down
by your like years ago.

S.Simon


"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...


Simple Simon wrote:
"otnmbrd" wrote in message ink.net...

LOL NO, you have attempted to use only those parts of the rules that
some might find agreement with, to no avail, in a vain attempt to prove
your point ....and we all note that you still and always fail to address
the issue of the tugboat Shen described and your sailboat making the
same signal which blows away your malarkey about some bogus pecking
order. Why is that Neal?

Cause he can't


It is hardly vain to prove a point using the wording of
the Rules themselves. That you cannot accept that Rule
8 paragraph (f) (i) disproves the concept that 'shall not
impede' is a term used only in narrow channels defeats
your argument, not mine. It supports my argument and
is at the heart of the matter when it comes to pecking
order.

LOL Never thought or said it did apply to narrow channels only. It also
applies to Traffic Separation Schemes and "vessels constrained by draft".
What does that have to do with Shen's tugboat and your sailboat meeting
in fog?
As per usual, you have not, can not, and will not address the issue of
Shen's tugboat (except with the bogus ploy about RAM) and your sailboat,
in fog, with out radar, and what that situation does to your "pecking
order".
You also can't explain how a vessel in fog can take early and
substantial action, when they don't have a clue as to what action they
can take or if any action is necessary.

The tugboat issue has no bearing on anything other
than Shen44's lack of knowledge. A tugboat only
sounds a one prolonged/two short blast signal if
the tugboat is a RAM and is displayiing the lights
and shapes of a RAM.

Show me where the "rules" say that ..... don't waste your time, you
can't .... No...waste your time. Show all of us where the rules say a
tugboat pushing or towing is normally RAM (you've tried that statement
in the past) or that a tugboat must be RAM to sound one prolong followed
by two short.....show us all....even YOU can't twist the wording of the
rules to show that.



PS I've got a bet with Shen, that there is NO WAY you will Ever address
his scenario of the tugboat in fog, versus your sailboat and the pecking
order, stand on condition you say exist .... Ya see, I don't think
you're quite that stupid....he, on the other hand......



You just lost that bet. Ha ha a hh a ha ha hah ah ah h ah ah !

LOL you didn't address any part of it, you just typically tried to dance
around the edges with the stupid RAM ploy.

NOPE, goes down as a typical lame attempt. ROFL can't do it, can ya?
Every angle you look at it, consequently blows all your arguments about
fog and pecking order into the trash bin.

When's your next renewal? Since I doubt you'll be able to show any time
on license, I bet you'll have to take the open book rules test. Hope you
got lotsa money so you can buy up all the questions and answers, cause
without them, you'll never pass even the open book.

otn

"Shen44" wrote in message
Come on Neal, give it a woil .... at least try one of your "out of context"
babbling sessions on it and forget the RAM ploy, cause that doesn't work with
anyone.

RAM ploy? Haaaa ha hahah h a hahahahahahha ha h! You are the
one with the ploy in your lame attempt to try to make me believe
a lie so I might look foolish. It won't work.

A motorboat towing sounds the signal of a motor vessel unless
the motorboat towing is restricted in its ability to maneuver (RAM).

The only time a vessel towing is allow to sound the one prolonged/
two short blasts fog signal is if the towboat is a RAM. If and only
if the towboat is showing lights or shapes of a RAM can it sound
the signal of a RAM. (legally speaking that is - you in your ignorance
might feel differently and have probably done differently.)

This makes no difference in the abbreviated pecking order
which I have written about and which, in fact, exists by virtue
of the shall not impede clause of Rule 8.

The fact still remains that vessels sounding the one prolong blast
fog signal or even the two prolonged blast fog signal must not impede
any vessel sounding the one prolonged/two short blast fog signal.

The Rules require it.

"Shen44" wrote in message ...
ubject: Ellen MacArthur - Rules discussion
From: "Simple Simon"
Date: 08/04/2003 06:46 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Shall not impede applies in a broader sense than in narrow
channels. It is stated in Rule 8 --- paracraph (f) (i) and
prefaced by the statement 'by any of these rules' which
means it is not limited to narrow channel situations. Shall
not impede applies to the pecking order.

LOL seems to me, YOU are the only one making any mention of "shall not impede",
as applying only to "narrow channels".
The rest of us know it applies to Traffic separation as well as CBD.

Expand your understanding still farther to all circumstances
where the term 'searoom' applies and you will finally come
up to my superior understanding of the English language.

You seem to think that 'shall not impede' applies under
limited circumstances. On the contrary, Rule 8 proves
'shall not impede' is a broad term that can be used
specifically in the instances you mentioned but is actually
and in fact a broader term that can be used in any
circumstance where the term 'searoom' applies which
means at sea because searoom applies at sea.

S.Simon

As expected, just another typical diatribe which in no way addresses the
issues at hand.
Admit it SS .... you can't answer the question about the tug.
As for time on your boat counting for renewal ..... sorry .....doesn't
..... your license is for a powerdriven vessel of a certain tonnage ....
you sure you still have that license? Didn't let it lapse didja?

Still don't know what "impede" refers to, do ya? Ah well, don't despair,
you don't understand the rest of the rules either, so at least you're
consistent.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:
I've got more than enough time on the water in my fine
vessels both offshore and nearshore to renew easily.

I won't have to retake any test questions but even if I
did it would be no problem because I know all the answers
by virtue of my superior understanding of the COLREGS.

What you have yet to learn is a superior understanding of
the Rules comes only after years of study and years of
practical application in a small sailing vessel. Sitting in
a wheelhouse on some big ship sheltered from the wind,
the waves, normal ocean sounds and sights simply gives
you a case of the 'armchair motorboater's syndrome"
which results in impaired sensory input, impaired reaction,
impaired application of the Rules and impaired responsibility.

Being on the receiving end of motorboater ignorance and
arrogance of which you, Shen44, and Jeff Morris display
and abundance, is the best way to learn the ins and outs of
the Rules provided one can survive your attempts to run
us down. I have survived and I shall continue to survive and
learn. I welcome all your displays of ignorance because they
allow me to become stronger and safer since I know how
the levels of ignorance upon which you all proceed impair
your judgment and required action.

I realize you three don't have a clue what 'shall not impede'
means because you have proven you are all clueless.

I realize you will persist in impeding vessels you are supposed
to give a wide berth in any condition of visibility and this makes
you all the more dangerous in restricted visibility. I know your
pride does not allow you to believe that motorboats must
give way to any and all vessels signaling one prolonged/two
short blasts in a fog. I know you will wrongly interpret the
Rules so you will end up violating them by creating a close
quarters situation in your ignorance.

Thank God I know all this or I would have been run down
by your like years ago.

S.Simon


ROFL you couldn't answer ONE question, or address ONE issue, couldya
...... just a bunch of garbage .....

Impede means to interfere with the progress of.

A vessel that shall not impede is mandated by the
Rules to not interfere with the progress of another
vessel. This is so simple I'm surprised you had to
ask. Something this basic is child's play for an
experienced Master mariner such as yours truly.

When a Rule states that a vessel shall not impede
and allow plenty of searoom then I know the rule
means one vessel should not interfere with the
progress of another and shall provide plenty of
searoom to the vessel it shall not impede.

In other words the give-way vessel shall not
impede the stand-on vessel in any way at any
time and yes, even at sea where searoom exists.

S.Simon.


"otnmbrd" wrote in message ink.net...
As expected, just another typical diatribe which in no way addresses the
issues at hand.
Admit it SS .... you can't answer the question about the tug.
As for time on your boat counting for renewal ..... sorry .....doesn't
.... your license is for a powerdriven vessel of a certain tonnage ....
you sure you still have that license? Didn't let it lapse didja?

Still don't know what "impede" refers to, do ya? Ah well, don't despair,
you don't understand the rest of the rules either, so at least you're
consistent.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:
I've got more than enough time on the water in my fine
vessels both offshore and nearshore to renew easily.

I won't have to retake any test questions but even if I
did it would be no problem because I know all the answers
by virtue of my superior understanding of the COLREGS.

What you have yet to learn is a superior understanding of
the Rules comes only after years of study and years of
practical application in a small sailing vessel. Sitting in
a wheelhouse on some big ship sheltered from the wind,
the waves, normal ocean sounds and sights simply gives
you a case of the 'armchair motorboater's syndrome"
which results in impaired sensory input, impaired reaction,
impaired application of the Rules and impaired responsibility.

Being on the receiving end of motorboater ignorance and
arrogance of which you, Shen44, and Jeff Morris display
and abundance, is the best way to learn the ins and outs of
the Rules provided one can survive your attempts to run
us down. I have survived and I shall continue to survive and
learn. I welcome all your displays of ignorance because they
allow me to become stronger and safer since I know how
the levels of ignorance upon which you all proceed impair
your judgment and required action.

I realize you three don't have a clue what 'shall not impede'
means because you have proven you are all clueless.

I realize you will persist in impeding vessels you are supposed
to give a wide berth in any condition of visibility and this makes
you all the more dangerous in restricted visibility. I know your
pride does not allow you to believe that motorboats must
give way to any and all vessels signaling one prolonged/two
short blasts in a fog. I know you will wrongly interpret the
Rules so you will end up violating them by creating a close
quarters situation in your ignorance.

Thank God I know all this or I would have been run down
by your like years ago.

S.Simon


ROFL you couldn't answer ONE question, or address ONE issue, couldya
..... just a bunch of garbage .....

Subject: Ellen MacArthur - Rules discussion
From: "Simple Simon"

Shall not impede applies in a broader sense than in narrow
channels. It is stated in Rule 8 --- paracraph (f) (i) and
prefaced by the statement 'by any of these rules' which
means it is not limited to narrow channel situations. Shall
not impede applies to the pecking order.

LOL seems to me, YOU are the only one making any mention of "shall not
impede",
as applying only to "narrow channels".
The rest of us know it applies to Traffic separation as well as CBD.

Expand your understanding still farther to all circumstances
where the term 'searoom' applies and you will finally come
up to my superior understanding of the English language.

You sure that was "English" you Majored in, and not "Gibberish"?
Anyone who reads the rules and comes up with the idea that a tugboat, towing or
pushing can only sound one prolong followed by two short, in fog, if they are
also RAM, has to either be speaking gibberish and mis translating or not have
much of a brain to start with.
How DO you come up with these interpretations?

You seem to think that 'shall not impede' applies under
limited circumstances. On the contrary, Rule 8 proves
'shall not impede' is a broad term that can be used
specifically in the instances you mentioned but is actually
and in fact a broader term that can be used in any
circumstance where the term 'searoom' applies which
means at sea because searoom applies at sea.

Haven't got much of a historical background, have you. Searoom can be applied
at sea and in a narrow channel. The idea ius to know the context of the term
and how it is applied .... something beyond your limited reasoning
capabilities.

Shen

You are wrong and you continue to be wrong because
you attempt to defend an erroneous position that cannot
be defended.

S.Simon



...... and you continue to fail to attempt to defend your position on the tug
boat by claiming some "fact" which doesn't exist and doing a dance all around
the bloody mulberry bush and never touching on any of the issues.

Shen

Like I said, a tugboat is only a motor boat and enjoys
no special status unless and until it becomes restricted
in its ability to maneuver (RAM) at which time it must
show the shapes and lights of a RAM as well as any
other lights required by the Rules. When the tugboat
is a RAM then it must sound the fog signal of a RAM.

I fail to see why you seem to think there is some special
circumstance involved here.


"Shen44" wrote in message ...

..... and you continue to fail to attempt to defend your position on the tug
boat by claiming some "fact" which doesn't exist and doing a dance all around
the bloody mulberry bush and never touching on any of the issues.

Shen

One entry found for sea room in Merriam Webster:

Main Entry: sea room
Function: noun
Date: circa 1554
: room for maneuver at sea


"Shen44" wrote in message ...
Subject: Ellen MacArthur - Rules discussion
From: "Simple Simon"

Shall not impede applies in a broader sense than in narrow
channels. It is stated in Rule 8 --- paracraph (f) (i) and
prefaced by the statement 'by any of these rules' which
means it is not limited to narrow channel situations. Shall
not impede applies to the pecking order.

LOL seems to me, YOU are the only one making any mention of "shall not
impede",
as applying only to "narrow channels".
The rest of us know it applies to Traffic separation as well as CBD.

Expand your understanding still farther to all circumstances
where the term 'searoom' applies and you will finally come
up to my superior understanding of the English language.

You sure that was "English" you Majored in, and not "Gibberish"?
Anyone who reads the rules and comes up with the idea that a tugboat, towing or
pushing can only sound one prolong followed by two short, in fog, if they are
also RAM, has to either be speaking gibberish and mis translating or not have
much of a brain to start with.
How DO you come up with these interpretations?

You seem to think that 'shall not impede' applies under
limited circumstances. On the contrary, Rule 8 proves
'shall not impede' is a broad term that can be used
specifically in the instances you mentioned but is actually
and in fact a broader term that can be used in any
circumstance where the term 'searoom' applies which
means at sea because searoom applies at sea.

Haven't got much of a historical background, have you. Searoom can be applied
at sea and in a narrow channel. The idea ius to know the context of the term
and how it is applied .... something beyond your limited reasoning
capabilities.

Shen

Simple Simon wrote:
Impede means to interfere with the progress of.

Oh good. Now apply that meaning to the way the term is used in the rules
and under the conditions it is applied.

A vessel that shall not impede is mandated by the
Rules to not interfere with the progress of another
vessel. This is so simple I'm surprised you had to
ask. Something this basic is child's play for an
experienced Master mariner such as yours truly.

If it's such childs play and you are so experienced, why do you continue
to screw up it's usage when the term is used and applied to the "Rules
of the Road"?

When a Rule states that a vessel shall not impede
and allow plenty of searoom then I know the rule
means one vessel should not interfere with the
progress of another and shall provide plenty of
searoom to the vessel it shall not impede.

In other words the give-way vessel shall not
impede the stand-on vessel in any way at any
time and yes, even at sea where searoom exists.

EG Actually you were doing pretty good, up until the last paragraph
.... had to keep talking.
Since the subject of this post is "Shall not impede".... Rule 8.(f)(iii)
(oops you keep forgetting about this, don't you? keeps getting in the
way of your other so called arguments).
So ..... Are you also saying, that since The "impede" statute applies in
narrow channels, that "searoom" also applies in narrow channels?

otn

S.Simon.


"otnmbrd" wrote in message ink.net...

As expected, just another typical diatribe which in no way addresses the
issues at hand.
Admit it SS .... you can't answer the question about the tug.
As for time on your boat counting for renewal ..... sorry .....doesn't
.... your license is for a powerdriven vessel of a certain tonnage ....
you sure you still have that license? Didn't let it lapse didja?

Still don't know what "impede" refers to, do ya? Ah well, don't despair,
you don't understand the rest of the rules either, so at least you're
consistent.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:

I've got more than enough time on the water in my fine
vessels both offshore and nearshore to renew easily.

I won't have to retake any test questions but even if I
did it would be no problem because I know all the answers
by virtue of my superior understanding of the COLREGS.

What you have yet to learn is a superior understanding of
the Rules comes only after years of study and years of
practical application in a small sailing vessel. Sitting in
a wheelhouse on some big ship sheltered from the wind,
the waves, normal ocean sounds and sights simply gives
you a case of the 'armchair motorboater's syndrome"
which results in impaired sensory input, impaired reaction,
impaired application of the Rules and impaired responsibility.

Being on the receiving end of motorboater ignorance and
arrogance of which you, Shen44, and Jeff Morris display
and abundance, is the best way to learn the ins and outs of
the Rules provided one can survive your attempts to run
us down. I have survived and I shall continue to survive and
learn. I welcome all your displays of ignorance because they
allow me to become stronger and safer since I know how
the levels of ignorance upon which you all proceed impair
your judgment and required action.

I realize you three don't have a clue what 'shall not impede'
means because you have proven you are all clueless.

I realize you will persist in impeding vessels you are supposed
to give a wide berth in any condition of visibility and this makes
you all the more dangerous in restricted visibility. I know your
pride does not allow you to believe that motorboats must
give way to any and all vessels signaling one prolonged/two
short blasts in a fog. I know you will wrongly interpret the
Rules so you will end up violating them by creating a close
quarters situation in your ignorance.

Thank God I know all this or I would have been run down
by your like years ago.

S.Simon


ROFL you couldn't answer ONE question, or address ONE issue, couldya
..... just a bunch of garbage .....