See my posts to that fool Shen44 who had the
cheek to argue with me the definition of searoom.
Searoom does NOT apply to narrow channels
because there is no such thing as searoom in
narrow channels by definition.

"otnmbrd" wrote in message news
So ..... Are you also saying, that since The "impede" statute applies in
narrow channels, that "searoom" also applies in narrow channels?

One entry found for sea room in Merriam Webster:

Main Entry: sea room
Function: noun
Date: circa 1554
: room for maneuver at sea


As stated earlier and expected, your historical background regarding anything
to do with boats and boating is limited.
The term has been and can be applied to any condition at sea or inshore.

Shen

ubject: Simon rules - Rules discussion
From: "Simple Simon"
Date: 08/04/2003 13:30 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Like I said, a tugboat is only a motor boat and enjoys
no special status unless and until it becomes restricted
in its ability to maneuver (RAM) at which time it must
show the shapes and lights of a RAM as well as any
other lights required by the Rules. When the tugboat
is a RAM then it must sound the fog signal of a RAM.

Hey Simple. I realize you have a problem reading and comprehending English, but
even you should be able to understand this ..... SHOW ME where the rules state
the above.
Mind you now, we are talking about a tugboat engaged in towing astern or
pushing ahead or alongside in fog. SHOW ME where the rules say that this vessel
is RAM or must be RAM to sound one prolong followed by two short when in fog.

I fail to see why you seem to think there is some special
circumstance involved here.

I fail; to see how you could arrive at the point of believing that I have said
there is a special circumstance.
This is a simple rule that states which vessels shall blow a specific whistle
signal in fog and I fail to see how someone, even with your limited
intelligence, reading comprehension and experience can fail to understand it.

Shen

Wrongly applied to be sure. One must use words
according to their definition if language is to have
any meaning at all. Simply making up usage to
comply with your beliefs does not make it so.

Sorry Mr. Shen you lose again.

S.Simon


"Shen44" wrote in message ...
The term has been and can be applied to any condition at sea or inshore.

Look for my answer to otnmbrd. He already asked
me for the Rules that apply and I listed them. I see
no need to repeat them to you here. Both of you are
equally ignorant so answering one of you should
suffice as an answer to both of you.


"Shen44" wrote in message ...
ubject: Simon rules - Rules discussion
From: "Simple Simon"
Date: 08/04/2003 13:30 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Like I said, a tugboat is only a motor boat and enjoys
no special status unless and until it becomes restricted
in its ability to maneuver (RAM) at which time it must
show the shapes and lights of a RAM as well as any
other lights required by the Rules. When the tugboat
is a RAM then it must sound the fog signal of a RAM.

Hey Simple. I realize you have a problem reading and comprehending English, but
even you should be able to understand this ..... SHOW ME where the rules state
the above.
Mind you now, we are talking about a tugboat engaged in towing astern or
pushing ahead or alongside in fog. SHOW ME where the rules say that this vessel
is RAM or must be RAM to sound one prolong followed by two short when in fog.

I fail to see why you seem to think there is some special
circumstance involved here.

I fail; to see how you could arrive at the point of believing that I have said
there is a special circumstance.
This is a simple rule that states which vessels shall blow a specific whistle
signal in fog and I fail to see how someone, even with your limited
intelligence, reading comprehension and experience can fail to understand it.

Shen

Subject: Ellen MacArthur, Tthe Reluctant Heroine
From: "Simple Simon"
Date: 08/04/2003 13:47 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:






"Shen44" wrote in message
...

A motorboat towing sounds the signal of a motor vessel unless
the motorboat towing is restricted in its ability to maneuver (RAM).

Where, AGAIN, does it say that in the rules????? Comeon Neal .... Show us
all
where it says this!! (no response expected)

It says it in Rule 3 under the definition of RAM. Note there is no
class of vessels called towboat or towing and that's because there
is no such class because a two boat fits into the class of powerboat

ROFL That's so lame it's pathetic, though it sounds like something you'd try.
If a tugboat/towboat is not different than a powerdriven vessel, why does it
carry additional / different lights from a powerdriven vessel (kinda like RAM,
NUC which carry additional/different lights and make a different sound signal
in fog)
Try again

Read rule 35 (c) and explain to me why they (tugboats) are included in there if
they are RAM .... i.e. there would be no need.

Wrong again Neal



The only time a vessel towing is allow to sound the one prolonged/
two short blasts fog signal is if the towboat is a RAM. If and only
if the towboat is showing lights or shapes of a RAM can it sound
the signal of a RAM. (legally speaking that is - you in your ignorance
might feel differently and have probably done differently.)

Show me where it says this in the rules !!!! (still no response expected
EG)

Rule 35.


The fact still remains that vessels sounding the one prolong blast
fog signal or even the two prolonged blast fog signal must not impede
any vessel sounding the one prolonged/two short blast fog signal.

Where's it say dat?


It says it in Rule 8 paragraph (f) (i).

Satisfied?

Subject: Ellen MacArthur, Tthe Reluctant Heroine
From: "Simple Simon"
Date: 08/04/2003 13:47 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:






"Shen44" wrote in message
...

A motorboat towing sounds the signal of a motor vessel unless
the motorboat towing is restricted in its ability to maneuver (RAM).

Where, AGAIN, does it say that in the rules????? Comeon Neal .... Show us
all
where it says this!! (no response expected)

It says it in Rule 3 under the definition of RAM. Note there is no
class of vessels called towboat or towing and that's because there
is no such class because a two boat fits into the class of powerboat



The only time a vessel towing is allow to sound the one prolonged/
two short blasts fog signal is if the towboat is a RAM. If and only
if the towboat is showing lights or shapes of a RAM can it sound
the signal of a RAM. (legally speaking that is - you in your ignorance
might feel differently and have probably done differently.)

Show me where it says this in the rules !!!! (still no response expected
EG)

Rule 35.

HUH? how do you come up with that nonsense?


The fact still remains that vessels sounding the one prolong blast
fog signal or even the two prolonged blast fog signal must not impede
any vessel sounding the one prolonged/two short blast fog signal.

Where's it say dat?


It says it in Rule 8 paragraph (f) (i).

Satisfied?

ROFLMAO we must be reading a different set of rules I just gotta get me a copy
with your translations.

Neal, even when you at least try to come up with an explanation, you are sooooo
far off that it's hilarious.

ubject: Simon's superior understanding
From: "Simple Simon"
Date: 08/04/2003 13:53 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

See my posts to that fool Shen44 who had the
cheek to argue with me the definition of searoom.
Searoom does NOT apply to narrow channels
because there is no such thing as searoom in
narrow channels by definition.


Ok, I admit it. For someone such as yourself, too lacking in basic intelligence
and education to be able to apply some of the nuances of the English language,
the is no issue of searoom in narrow channels.
However, for the rest of us, we can easily apply those nuances and understand
how the term could apply.
So .... drop that part of the argument.. it applies only to you.

Shen

"Shen44" wrote in message ...

Read rule 35 (c) and explain to me why they (tugboats) are included in there if
they are RAM .... i.e. there would be no need.



Here is Rule 35 (c)

(c) A vessel not under command, a vessel restricted in her ability to
maneuver, a vessel constrained by her draft, a sailing vessel, a vessel
engaged in fishing and a vessel engaged in towing or pushing
another vessel shall, instead of the signals prescribed in paragraphs
(a) or (b) of this Rule, sound at intervals of not more than 2 minutes
three blasts in succession, namely one prolonged followed by two
short blasts.

The key phrase is "engage is pushing or towing ANOTHER VESSEL"

If the rule stated just plain pushing or towing I might agree with you
but if there is another vessel involved it is assumed that the combination
is Restricted in its Ability to Maneuver. That this rule clarifies a point
about differences in some tow boats that are RAMs and some that
are not has no bearing on our discussion of motorboats who give
one signal taking action to avoid a close quarters situation with those
vessels that sound the signal delineated in the above Rule.

The Rule that names the classes of vessels does not include a
class of vessels called towboats.

New NUC
Reels Ram
Catch CBD
Fish Fishing
So Sailing
Purchase Power
Some Seaplane

This Rule is the Rule that describes pecking order and not
Rule 35. 35 is a specific rule that talks about fog signals.

It does not change the fact that a towboat does not sound
the fog signal of or show the lights and shapes of a RAM
unless it is a RAM. The only thing Rule 35 does is says
a towboat pushing or towing another vessel may sound
the same sound as a RAM, sailboat, NUC. etc.

Another argument won.

S.Simon

Subject: Ellen MacArthur, Tthe Reluctant Heroine
From: "Simple Simon"



"Shen44" wrote in

Read rule 35 (c) and explain to me why they (tugboats) are included in
there if
they are RAM .... i.e. there would be no need.



Here is Rule 35 (c)

(c) A vessel not under command, a vessel restricted in her ability to
maneuver, a vessel constrained by her draft, a sailing vessel, a vessel
engaged in fishing and a vessel engaged in towing or pushing
another vessel shall, instead of the signals prescribed in paragraphs
(a) or (b) of this Rule, sound at intervals of not more than 2 minutes
three blasts in succession, namely one prolonged followed by two
short blasts.

The key phrase is "engage is pushing or towing ANOTHER VESSEL"


ROFLMAO Excuse Me? If a towboat/tugboat is NOT engaged in pushing or towing
ANOTHER VESSEL, then it's NOT a tugboat/towboat under the rules ..... or did
you miss that fact along the way?

If the rule stated just plain pushing or towing I might agree with you
but if there is another vessel involved it is assumed that the combination
is Restricted in its Ability to Maneuver.

Now, just Where did you come up with THIS pearl of wisdom? ROFL

That this rule clarifies a point
about differences in some tow boats that are RAMs and some that
are not has no bearing on our discussion of motorboats who give
one signal taking action to avoid a close quarters situation with those
vessels that sound the signal delineated in the above Rule.

huh? more Neal gibberish did you reread any of this garbage?

The Rule that names the classes of vessels does not include a
class of vessels called towboats.

New NUC
Reels Ram
Catch CBD
Fish Fishing
So Sailing
Purchase Power
Some Seaplane

This Rule is the Rule that describes pecking order and not
Rule 35. 35 is a specific rule that talks about fog signals.

ROFL golly .... hey Neal, could a vessel that is NUC be a powerdriven vessel?
Could a vessel that is RAM be a powerdriven vessel? Could a vessel which is
engaged in towing be a powerdriven vessel? Do they all show different light
from the standard run of the mill powerdriven vessel? why? Does a vessel
engaged in towing either astern or alongside or ahead sound a different fog
signal than a powerdriven vessel? (yes ... why? cause rule 35 says so)

It does not change the fact that a towboat does not sound
the fog signal of or show the lights and shapes of a RAM
unless it is a RAM.

ROFL kerrect!! it shows the lights of a towing vessel and sounds the signal
described in Rule 35 (c) for a vessel engaged in towing, whether it is RAM or
not.



The only thing Rule 35 does is says
a towboat pushing or towing another vessel may sound
the same sound as a RAM, sailboat, NUC. etc.


ROFL reading comprehension problem rears it's Neal head. It says that a towboat
pushing or towing SHALL sound the same sound as a RAM, sailboat, NUC, etc.

Another argument LOST, by S.S.


Careful Neal, your beginning to be forced to address the issues and failing
badly

Shen