ROFL Give it up Neal. Your lack of education, intelligence, common
sense, reading comprehension, is coming to the fore.
Your post have become ridiculous and your arguments even more so.
You're grasping at straws and missing all the strands.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:

"Shen44" wrote in message ...

A motorboat towing sounds the signal of a motor vessel unless
the motorboat towing is restricted in its ability to maneuver (RAM).

Where, AGAIN, does it say that in the rules????? Comeon Neal .... Show us all
where it says this!! (no response expected)


It says it in Rule 3 under the definition of RAM. Note there is no
class of vessels called towboat or towing and that's because there
is no such class because a two boat fits into the class of powerboat



The only time a vessel towing is allow to sound the one prolonged/
two short blasts fog signal is if the towboat is a RAM. If and only
if the towboat is showing lights or shapes of a RAM can it sound
the signal of a RAM. (legally speaking that is - you in your ignorance
might feel differently and have probably done differently.)


Show me where it says this in the rules !!!! (still no response expected EG)


Rule 35.



The fact still remains that vessels sounding the one prolong blast
fog signal or even the two prolonged blast fog signal must not impede
any vessel sounding the one prolonged/two short blast fog signal.

Where's it say dat?



It says it in Rule 8 paragraph (f) (i).

Satisfied?

Couldn't answer a simple direct question with a simple direct answer,
could ya.

Simple Simon wrote:

See my posts to that fool Shen44 who had the
cheek to argue with me the definition of searoom.
Searoom does NOT apply to narrow channels
because there is no such thing as searoom in
narrow channels by definition.

"otnmbrd" wrote in message news
So ..... Are you also saying, that since The "impede" statute applies in
narrow channels, that "searoom" also applies in narrow channels?

Typically ignorant response. You haven't a clue as to the complete
meaning when applied to the rules.
You continue to lose.

oth

Simple Simon wrote:

Wrongly applied to be sure. One must use words
according to their definition if language is to have
any meaning at all. Simply making up usage to
comply with your beliefs does not make it so.

Sorry Mr. Shen you lose again.

S.Simon


"Shen44" wrote in message ...

The term has been and can be applied to any condition at sea or inshore.

Your answers were unbelievably stupid and in no way reflected the
meaning of the rules.
It's obvious that among your many failings regarding the rules and
reading, that you don't know what a towboat is.
As I said, give it up Neal. You're an incompetent who seems to derive
pleasure in showing your incompetence.
When's the last time you renewed that learners permit you call a license?
Your answer to me was not only stupid, it was laughably so..... as are
your so-called answers to Shen.
The only reason I continue to answer your post, is to be sure that some
neophyte who is lurking in the background here, does NOT believe that
what you say is gospel, but is, instead, gibberish garbage.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:

Look for my answer to otnmbrd. He already asked
me for the Rules that apply and I listed them. I see
no need to repeat them to you here. Both of you are
equally ignorant so answering one of you should
suffice as an answer to both of you.


"Shen44" wrote in message ...

ubject: Simon rules - Rules discussion
From: "Simple Simon"
Date: 08/04/2003 13:30 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Like I said, a tugboat is only a motor boat and enjoys
no special status unless and until it becomes restricted
in its ability to maneuver (RAM) at which time it must
show the shapes and lights of a RAM as well as any
other lights required by the Rules. When the tugboat
is a RAM then it must sound the fog signal of a RAM.

Hey Simple. I realize you have a problem reading and comprehending English, but
even you should be able to understand this ..... SHOW ME where the rules state
the above.
Mind you now, we are talking about a tugboat engaged in towing astern or
pushing ahead or alongside in fog. SHOW ME where the rules say that this vessel
is RAM or must be RAM to sound one prolong followed by two short when in fog.

I fail to see why you seem to think there is some special
circumstance involved here.

I fail; to see how you could arrive at the point of believing that I have said
there is a special circumstance.
This is a simple rule that states which vessels shall blow a specific whistle
signal in fog and I fail to see how someone, even with your limited
intelligence, reading comprehension and experience can fail to understand it.

Shen

Struck a nerve, I did. You really panic when you know you're holed and
sinking.


wrote in message
nk.net...


jlrogers wrote:
Thrashing around on his hook like that will certainly keep the
neophyte
fishes away. Besides its BOR-ing.

Although I find considerable errors in many of Neal's Post, in this
thread, at least he is on topic, whereas most of what I see YOU post,
is
not only OFF Topic, but ALSO boring.
I know you've "killfiled" Shen. Do us all a favor and "killfile" me
also.
Unlike you, I just note names .... you are on that list of normally
useless posters who I infrequently check to see if they've improved
.....
to date, you haven't.

otn

Struck a nerve, I did. You really panic when you know you're holed and
sinking.

No, its just that he's only got one mouth, so can only bite at one hook at a
time.

Once again the novice makes the novice blunder.

The phrase "not to impede" has a very specific meaning, separate from "give-way" and is
used differently. Farwell has a lengthy discussion, clearly way over Neal's head, so I
won't bother repeating it here. However, it starts with:

'However, the words "avoid impeding" do not have the same unequivocal meaning as do those
of "give-way" '

and it goes on to explain that one refers to the responsibility of the sailboat crossing a
channel, the other of the powerboat in the channel.

For the lurker who might want the truth: the bottom line is that the crossing sailboat
should make sure there is plenty of room for the powerboat to go around. In practical
terms, this means stay out of its way, especially if the powerboat is much larger.
However, if a "risk of collision develops," the powerboat must still act as the giveway
vessel and do whatever it can.

One can also look to the IMO (The authors of the ColRegs) for guidance. They make it
pretty clear that rule 8f was added to clarify the meaning of "shall not impede" in rule 9
and 10.

Why is that the professional captains, the standard textbook, and the authors of the rule
all agree on its meaning, and yet Neal stands alone in his opinion?





"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Impede means to interfere with the progress of.

A vessel that shall not impede is mandated by the
Rules to not interfere with the progress of another
vessel. This is so simple I'm surprised you had to
ask. Something this basic is child's play for an
experienced Master mariner such as yours truly.

When a Rule states that a vessel shall not impede
and allow plenty of searoom then I know the rule
means one vessel should not interfere with the
progress of another and shall provide plenty of
searoom to the vessel it shall not impede.

In other words the give-way vessel shall not
impede the stand-on vessel in any way at any
time and yes, even at sea where searoom exists.

S.Simon.


"otnmbrd" wrote in message
ink.net...
As expected, just another typical diatribe which in no way addresses the
issues at hand.
Admit it SS .... you can't answer the question about the tug.
As for time on your boat counting for renewal ..... sorry .....doesn't
.... your license is for a powerdriven vessel of a certain tonnage ....
you sure you still have that license? Didn't let it lapse didja?

Still don't know what "impede" refers to, do ya? Ah well, don't despair,
you don't understand the rest of the rules either, so at least you're
consistent.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:
I've got more than enough time on the water in my fine
vessels both offshore and nearshore to renew easily.

I won't have to retake any test questions but even if I
did it would be no problem because I know all the answers
by virtue of my superior understanding of the COLREGS.

What you have yet to learn is a superior understanding of
the Rules comes only after years of study and years of
practical application in a small sailing vessel. Sitting in
a wheelhouse on some big ship sheltered from the wind,
the waves, normal ocean sounds and sights simply gives
you a case of the 'armchair motorboater's syndrome"
which results in impaired sensory input, impaired reaction,
impaired application of the Rules and impaired responsibility.

Being on the receiving end of motorboater ignorance and
arrogance of which you, Shen44, and Jeff Morris display
and abundance, is the best way to learn the ins and outs of
the Rules provided one can survive your attempts to run
us down. I have survived and I shall continue to survive and
learn. I welcome all your displays of ignorance because they
allow me to become stronger and safer since I know how
the levels of ignorance upon which you all proceed impair
your judgment and required action.

I realize you three don't have a clue what 'shall not impede'
means because you have proven you are all clueless.

I realize you will persist in impeding vessels you are supposed
to give a wide berth in any condition of visibility and this makes
you all the more dangerous in restricted visibility. I know your
pride does not allow you to believe that motorboats must
give way to any and all vessels signaling one prolonged/two
short blasts in a fog. I know you will wrongly interpret the
Rules so you will end up violating them by creating a close
quarters situation in your ignorance.

Thank God I know all this or I would have been run down
by your like years ago.

S.Simon


ROFL you couldn't answer ONE question, or address ONE issue, couldya
..... just a bunch of garbage .....

LOL You don't know enough about boats to argue any issue or know whether
I was "holed or sinking" ..... all you know is to argue stupid political
issues in a NG, designed for boating.
You have a Predominating Stupid Gene, that makes you constantly want to
argue stupid politics.
Fly away, dummy, and argue your nonsense in an "OT" newsgroup .....
talk about boring.........

otn

jlrogers wrote:
Struck a nerve, I did. You really panic when you know you're holed and
sinking.


wrote in message
nk.net...


jlrogers wrote:

Thrashing around on his hook like that will certainly keep the

neophyte

fishes away. Besides its BOR-ing.

Although I find considerable errors in many of Neal's Post, in this
thread, at least he is on topic, whereas most of what I see YOU post,

is

not only OFF Topic, but ALSO boring.
I know you've "killfiled" Shen. Do us all a favor and "killfile" me

also.

Unlike you, I just note names .... you are on that list of normally
useless posters who I infrequently check to see if they've improved

....

to date, you haven't.

otn

I recall the first time the "sailboats have right-of-way in the fog" issue came up,
several regulars here thought Neal's arguments were plausible. (We won't mention names
....) While some of his comments, taken in isolation, seem reasonable, such as the wind
is often light in the fog, you can't use that to prove that sailboats have right of way in
thick fog.

Neal has taken the extra step of asserting that sailboats are obligated to maintain full
speed, in thick fog, even after they hear a fog signal dead ahead. This is the moral
equivalent of giving children matches and gasoline to play with. I know that almost every
reading this understands that Neal is just a buffoon, but there may be a few people out
there that only see one post and are sucked in by it.



"Gerard Weatherby" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 00:37:04 GMT, otnmbrd wrote:

The only reason I continue to answer your post, is to be sure that some
neophyte who is lurking in the background here, does NOT believe that
what you say is gospel, but is, instead, gibberish garbage.

Surely after the first back and forth this hypothetical neophyte lurker will
have sufficient information to draw the necessary conclusions. Why not just
post links to the rules?

The downloadable version
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/download.htm

and the online version

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm

S/V Cat's Meow
http://www.catsmeow.org

Once again Neal shows his lubberly ways by referring to "Webster's" for nautical
definitions.

One need only open Bowditch to find the proper definition, as accepted by seamen around
the world:

"sea room. Space in which to maneuver without danger of grounding or colliding."

Clearly, the use of "sea room" is not limited to the high seas; on the contrary, it
becomes significant only when there is a risk of grounding or collision. This is exactly
the important issue in narrow channels.

Neal yet again demonstrates his very limited experience. Anyone that has participated in
racing understands the use of "sea room." Its shortened form is defined in the official
rules:

"Room: The space a boat needs in the existing conditions while maneuvering promptly in a
seamanlike way."

Of course, we really can't expect Neal to understand concepts like "maneuvering in a
seamanlike way."


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
One entry found for sea room in Merriam Webster:

Main Entry: sea room
Function: noun
Date: circa 1554
: room for maneuver at sea


"Shen44" wrote in message
...
Subject: Ellen MacArthur - Rules discussion
From: "Simple Simon"

Shall not impede applies in a broader sense than in narrow
channels. It is stated in Rule 8 --- paracraph (f) (i) and
prefaced by the statement 'by any of these rules' which
means it is not limited to narrow channel situations. Shall
not impede applies to the pecking order.

LOL seems to me, YOU are the only one making any mention of "shall not
impede",
as applying only to "narrow channels".
The rest of us know it applies to Traffic separation as well as CBD.

Expand your understanding still farther to all circumstances
where the term 'searoom' applies and you will finally come
up to my superior understanding of the English language.

You sure that was "English" you Majored in, and not "Gibberish"?
Anyone who reads the rules and comes up with the idea that a tugboat, towing or
pushing can only sound one prolong followed by two short, in fog, if they are
also RAM, has to either be speaking gibberish and mis translating or not have
much of a brain to start with.
How DO you come up with these interpretations?

You seem to think that 'shall not impede' applies under
limited circumstances. On the contrary, Rule 8 proves
'shall not impede' is a broad term that can be used
specifically in the instances you mentioned but is actually
and in fact a broader term that can be used in any
circumstance where the term 'searoom' applies which
means at sea because searoom applies at sea.

Haven't got much of a historical background, have you. Searoom can be applied
at sea and in a narrow channel. The idea ius to know the context of the term
and how it is applied .... something beyond your limited reasoning
capabilities.

Shen