On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:59:44 +0100, a team of surgeons from
alt.sailing.asa removed the following benign growth from Richard
Watson:

Peter J Ross writes:

Agent, Gravity, XNews... the list is a lot shorter, and Windoze has
nothing that comes close to KNode.

Not true at all.

Windows has emacs, and therefore gnus.

Not to mention SLRN. But I can defend my list as a list of
user-friendly newsreaders with lots of twinkly icons and no lisp or
slang syntax to learn.

--
PJR :-)
mhm34x8
Alcatroll Labs Inc. (Executive Vice-President)

Peter J Ross writes:

Windows has emacs, and therefore gnus.

Not to mention SLRN. But I can defend my list as a list of
user-friendly newsreaders with lots of twinkly icons and no lisp or
slang syntax to learn.

Aha, nothing like shifting goalposts is there ;-)

So how are you going to keep pan off the list?

http://pan.rebelbase.com/

Of course since kde is ported to cygwin it won't be long before knode
runs on windows, if it doesn't already.

--
Richard Watson
http://www.opencolo.com/
High Quality, Value for money colocation

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:37:20 +0100, a team of surgeons from
alt.sailing.asa removed the following benign growth from Richard
Watson:

Peter J Ross writes:

Windows has emacs, and therefore gnus.

Not to mention SLRN. But I can defend my list as a list of
user-friendly newsreaders with lots of twinkly icons and no lisp or
slang syntax to learn.

Aha, nothing like shifting goalposts is there ;-)

You made a good point, which I accepted. This isn't a flame war (yet),
is it? ;-)

So how are you going to keep pan off the list?

http://pan.rebelbase.com/

I think Pan is crap, personally. I've used two versions of it, and
they both made Sylpheed-Claws seem stable.

Of course since kde is ported to cygwin it won't be long before knode
runs on windows, if it doesn't already.

But Windoze users won't install Cygwin. They'll install, at best,
Agent or XNews. Cygwin and Gnus and Slrn are *complicated*, and I
still insist that there's no intuitive Windoze newsreader for the
masses that's as good as KNode - or even Pan, if it's less buggy than
I found it to be.

I'd like to see a standards-compliant newsreader that works "out of
the box", the way Calypso/Courier does for email.

--
PJR :-)
mhm34x8
Alcatroll Labs Inc. (Executive Vice-President)

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 02:33:04 +0100, Peter J Ross wrote:

http://pan.rebelbase.com/

I think Pan is crap, personally. I've used two versions of it, and
they both made Sylpheed-Claws seem stable.

how many years ago was that then??? You'd be pleasantly surprised by it
now.

--
Has your ms-windows computer been turned into a SPAM server???
http://www.computerweekly.com/Article123378.htm

Peter J Ross writes:

Windows has emacs, and therefore gnus.

Not to mention SLRN. But I can defend my list as a list of
user-friendly newsreaders with lots of twinkly icons and no lisp or
slang syntax to learn.

Aha, nothing like shifting goalposts is there ;-)

You made a good point, which I accepted. This isn't a flame war (yet),
is it? ;-)

Hope not :-)

So how are you going to keep pan off the list?

http://pan.rebelbase.com/

I think Pan is crap, personally. I've used two versions of it, and
they both made Sylpheed-Claws seem stable.

Well, pan's come a long way lately. I've got some version or other
installed here, just in case gnus fails me or for the very odd
occasion when I need a binary group.

But Windoze users won't install Cygwin.

They won't? I'm sure some of them will, otherwise it's pointless
people going to the effort of making it.

They'll install, at best, Agent or XNews. Cygwin and Gnus and Slrn
are *complicated*,

Not sure if slrn's that complicated. Last time I used it it worked
OOTB. If you mean that people would be put off by lack of a snazzy gui
interface, then you might be right. However they shouldn't be. Back
when I first encountered email properly in 1989 everyone I knew was
happy using VAXMail and some of those were Arts students ;-)

It's my belief that the GUI has de-skilled the population as a whole,
but that's another matter.

and I still insist that there's no intuitive Windoze newsreader for
the masses that's as good as KNode - or even Pan, if it's less buggy
than I found it to be.

But the point is that Pan is available for windows, without even
installing cygwin.

I think the point I'm trying to make here is that with open source
software platforms become less of an issue. Whether or not Knode has
been ported to Windows is less important than the fact that it could
easily be ported if someone wanted to. Therefore, although there are
many reasons for using linux, choice of a decent newsreader isn't
necessarily one of them :-)

--
Richard Watson
http://www.opencolo.com/
High Quality, Value for money colocation

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:21:17 +0100, a team of surgeons from
alt.sailing.asa removed the following benign growth from Richard
Watson:

Peter J Ross writes:

...

But Windoze users won't install Cygwin.

They won't? I'm sure some of them will, otherwise it's pointless
people going to the effort of making it.

Of course *some* will, but the people who expect their shiny new
computer to work out of the box won't.

They'll install, at best, Agent or XNews. Cygwin and Gnus and Slrn
are *complicated*,

Not sure if slrn's that complicated. Last time I used it it worked
OOTB.

You have to write a text file, and that's too complicated for most
Windoze users.

If you mean that people would be put off by lack of a snazzy gui
interface, then you might be right. However they shouldn't be. Back
when I first encountered email properly in 1989 everyone I knew was
happy using VAXMail and some of those were Arts students ;-)

It's no longer 1989, and clueless people are now allowed to use
Usenet.

It's my belief that the GUI has de-skilled the population as a whole,
but that's another matter.

My favourite programs - mutt, slrn and vim - don't need no steenkin'
GUI. But they do need some simple skills that Bill Gates wants us not
to have.

and I still insist that there's no intuitive Windoze newsreader for
the masses that's as good as KNode - or even Pan, if it's less buggy
than I found it to be.

But the point is that Pan is available for windows, without even
installing cygwin.

How stable is it?

I spent yesterday setting up a combination of XNews and Hamster, and
I'll be using it as soon as I can be bothered to download all the
messages in the groups I read.

I think the point I'm trying to make here is that with open source
software platforms become less of an issue. Whether or not Knode has
been ported to Windows is less important than the fact that it could
easily be ported if someone wanted to.

They'd have to port a few KDE libraries too.

Therefore, although there are
many reasons for using linux, choice of a decent newsreader isn't
necessarily one of them :-)

True. What they want is pr0n, and they want it fast. Maybe tomorrow
belongs to Mozilla Firebird? ;-)

--
PJR :-)
mhm34x8
news:alt.fan.pjr
http://www.petitmorte.net/pjr/
http://www.pjr-online.co.uk/

Peter J Ross wrote:

I still insist that there's no intuitive Windoze newsreader for the
masses that's as good as KNode

XNews. That's what I used to use, and when I switched to Knode after
ditching Windows there were several things I missed. Knode *still* doesn't
have the ability to add arbitrary headers, and its followup-to behaviour is
constantly irritating. XNews did everything, and its defaults encouraged
newbies to Do The Right Thing, but without insisting on it and reducing
flexibility. Usenet would be a much better place if XNews was the default
newsreader on Windows.

Pete

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:50:01 +0100, a team of surgeons from
alt.sailing.asa removed the following benign growth from Pete Verdon:

Peter J Ross wrote:

I still insist that there's no intuitive Windoze newsreader for the
masses that's as good as KNode

XNews.

XNews is excellent, but hardly intuitive for newbies used to typical
Windoze apps.

That's what I used to use, and when I switched to Knode after
ditching Windows there were several things I missed. Knode *still* doesn't
have the ability to add arbitrary headers, and its followup-to behaviour is
constantly irritating. XNews did everything, and its defaults encouraged
newbies to Do The Right Thing, but without insisting on it and reducing
flexibility. Usenet would be a much better place if XNews was the default
newsreader on Windows.

If only! But I'd be content if only Microsoft made a few small,
obvious improvements to OE (signature placement, quoting etc).

--
PJR :-)
mhm34x8
news:alt.fan.pjr
http://www.petitmorte.net/pjr/
http://www.pjr-online.co.uk/
"I am frequently brain-damaged" - Tom Bishop

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:50:01 +0100, Pete Verdon wrote:

Peter J Ross wrote:

I still insist that there's no intuitive Windoze newsreader for the
masses that's as good as KNode

XNews. That's what I used to use, and when I switched to Knode after
ditching Windows there were several things I missed. Knode *still* doesn't
have the ability to add arbitrary headers, and its followup-to behaviour is
constantly irritating. XNews did everything, and its defaults encouraged
newbies to Do The Right Thing, but without insisting on it and reducing
flexibility. Usenet would be a much better place if XNews was the default
newsreader on Windows.


40tude dialog is not too shabby either...

http://www.40tude.com/dialog/

Freeware for personal use, shareware for commercial...

and it runs fine in Linux with the aid of WINE


Pete

--
Has your ms-windows computer been turned into a SPAM server???
http://www.computerweekly.com/Article123378.htm