You don't know Bobsprit. He NEVER in his life has
been 24 miles from land. If he uses 24 miles all he'll
see is tall buildings. Believe me. Booby is better off
using 1/4 mile than 24 miles. He rarely gets more than
a mile or two from land. He needs to be aware of
things very close by because those are the things
he hits.

S.Simon


"Shen44" wrote in message ...
ubject: Radar and Basic Nav.
From: "Simple Simon"
Date: 09/02/2003 15:32 Pacific Standard Time

Sailboaters are stupid when it comes to choosing radar.
They favor the wrong features. One example is the range
they choose. Booby is a good example. He keeps his
unit on 24 mile range so he can keep track of thunder
storms while he should be using 1/4 mile range to keep
track of things that will affect him sooner rather than
later. Big and powerful is really stupid for a slow speed
boat that heels. Small and accurate at close range is
what a sailor really needs.

ROFL .... Your lack of knowledge in another area, is screaming at us.
At sea, there is nothing wrong with using the 24mi range (though I'd admit for
his size boat, that's a bit far). You can still see targets that are closer to
you, so you can easily shift your range down for a better view .... course,
that should be a normal procedure.
Normally for Boobie, I'd suggest, in the Sound, running on the 6 or 12 mile
range, depending on conditions and what his major use is. Minimum would be 3
miles, shifting to lower (1.5 or 0.75) for a closer look at a particular target
for short periods, but NEVER leaving his radar at 0.25 mi, unless he was doing
some close in navigation, within a harbor area.
You always want to be on the longest range that allows you the best overall
picture of your area, be it traffic or navigational.
Whenever you switch to the real low ranges (0.75mi and below) you are creating
a situation of "tunnel vision" and Highly limiting your overall view of
surroundings.
Are there times that you want to be on these lower ranges? Of course, but,
these are normally only within harbor areas, or close situations in fog
(traffic) or close navigation problems .... even then, stay on the higher range
as long as possible (question of G spatial awareness).

Radar also needs to be
mounted high up - the higher to better so it can 'look
down'. This isn't possible on a sailing yacht because
the higher up the worse the heel. You end up with a
gimballed mount lower down that's garbage.

S.Simon - a natural-born Master

You're a "Natural born" something, but it ain't "Master"

Shen

ubject: Radar and Basic Nav.
From: "Simple Simon"
Date: 09/02/2003 17:20 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"Shen44" wrote in message
...

What watch does the Captain stand?
He gets to stand the watch of his choice.

Wrong. He doesn't stand a watch .... that's what he's got Mates for.


Who is the designated "Navigation Officer"?
The Mate

Wrong. The Second Mate is the designated "Navigation Officer", however, each
Mate does all his own navigating.

Who steers the ship at sea .... in port?
At sea the helmsman steers, in port the pilot steers.

Wrong. At sea, the ship is always on auto pilot, unless handling traffic or in
fog. In those cases, the "helmsman" will be steering. (Naturally, there are
exceptions that will include times other than those mentioned when one is on
"hand" steering).
LOL, the pilot rarely takes the actual "helm" going into or out of port .... he
"directs".

What are the 3M's duties?
Don't know what a 3M is - speak English!

ROFL, and you call yourself a Master..... a 3M, is a third Mate ....any idiot
knows that. Wrong .....

Who maintains the radio log?
The Mate

Which Mate? Wrong

What is a deadmans switch?
A switch that closes when not held open by the operator

Wrong. Most modern ships employ an unmanned engineroom, and some a one man
bridge watch. When an Engineer goes down into the engineroom at night to make a
"round", he sets this switch. If something should happen to him during that
round, an alarm will sound on the bridge, if he hasn't hit a "button" within an
alotted time.

How many whistle controls, on the bridge?
Automatic or manual?

Wrong ..... either (jumping the gun, but considering your responses to date,
probably valid)

How many EOT's?
EOT cranes on the bridge? None.

How many methods of steering on the bridge?
Two

What are "Noon slips" and how many are there?
Positions at noon. There are three.

Who keeps the Bell Log?
Mate

What's in a Bell Log?
Commands and times, things like full astern, full ahead.
It often contains of a standard set of symbols.


How often do you have to wind the course recorder?
Once a day if before the electronic age. You don't wind
the electronic ones.

G just a few, Neal .... let's see how you do

Better than you thought, huh.

S.Simon

Subject: Radar and Basic Nav.
From: "Simple Simon"


OOPS, hit the wrong button ..... to continue .....


"Shen44" wrote in message
...

What watch does the Captain stand?
He gets to stand the watch of his choice.

Who is the designated "Navigation Officer"?
The Mate

Who steers the ship at sea .... in port?
At sea the helmsman steers, in port the pilot steers.

What are the 3M's duties?
Don't know what a 3M is - speak English!

Who maintains the radio log?
The Mate

What is a deadmans switch?
A switch that closes when not held open by the operator

How many whistle controls, on the bridge?
Automatic or manual?

How many EOT's?
EOT cranes on the bridge? None.

Wrong. If you knew what was going on, you'd know that an EOT is an Engine Order
Telegraph.

How many methods of steering on the bridge?
Two

Wrong At least three and sometimes more.

What are "Noon slips" and how many are there?
Positions at noon. There are three.

Wrong. (Not enough info) What are the three?

Who keeps the Bell Log?
Mate

Which Mate? partial....at last.

What's in a Bell Log?
Commands and times, things like full astern, full ahead.
It often contains of a standard set of symbols.

Partial


How often do you have to wind the course recorder?
Once a day if before the electronic age. You don't wind
the electronic ones.

Wrong. They were 8 day clocks

G just a few, Neal .... let's see how you do

Better than you thought, huh.

Nope, worse ... I gave you credit, you obviously didn't deserve.

Shen

I thought the bell log was maintained traditionally by the oiler, and was a record of
shaft RPMs. I assume now its automatic and merged with GPS output.

Shen44 wrote:
Subject: Radar and Basic Nav.
From: "Simple Simon"


OOPS, hit the wrong button ..... to continue .....


"Shen44" wrote in message
...

What watch does the Captain stand?
He gets to stand the watch of his choice.

Who is the designated "Navigation Officer"?
The Mate

Who steers the ship at sea .... in port?
At sea the helmsman steers, in port the pilot steers.

What are the 3M's duties?
Don't know what a 3M is - speak English!

Who maintains the radio log?
The Mate

What is a deadmans switch?
A switch that closes when not held open by the operator

How many whistle controls, on the bridge?
Automatic or manual?

How many EOT's?
EOT cranes on the bridge? None.

Wrong. If you knew what was going on, you'd know that an EOT is an
Engine Order Telegraph.

How many methods of steering on the bridge?
Two

Wrong At least three and sometimes more.

What are "Noon slips" and how many are there?
Positions at noon. There are three.

Wrong. (Not enough info) What are the three?

Who keeps the Bell Log?
Mate

Which Mate? partial....at last.

What's in a Bell Log?
Commands and times, things like full astern, full ahead.
It often contains of a standard set of symbols.

Partial


How often do you have to wind the course recorder?
Once a day if before the electronic age. You don't wind
the electronic ones.

Wrong. They were 8 day clocks

G just a few, Neal .... let's see how you do

Better than you thought, huh.

Nope, worse ... I gave you credit, you obviously didn't deserve.

Shen

ect: Radar and Basic Nav.
From: "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom
Date: 09/02/2003 18:46 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

I thought the bell log was maintained traditionally by the oiler, and was a
record of
shaft RPMs. I assume now its automatic and merged with GPS output.

Actually, EG Neal almost got this one totally correct.
The "Bell" book used to be kept by the engineer on watch and another, by the
Mate on watch, while maneuvering, and was mainly a log of the time and type of
engine order, starting with SBE and ending with FWE (Some ships would call SBE
on Arrival) Symbols were used for the bells to facilitate noting them.
Some ships would also include major nav points in the Bell Book, but this was
rare.
Nowadays, this is an automated system, which includes just Engine orders and is
solely based on time .... no GPS input ..... sometimes one on the bridge and
one in the E.R.

Shen

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
ink.net...
Just out of curiosity .... What's the whistle signal, if any, to open a
draw bridge, in your area?


I've no idea! I can only think of one drawbridge in my sailing area, and
it opens at fixed times.


Regards


Donal
--

Donal wrote...

I've no ideas!

we know.


RB

Hey, I got most of them right.

Just because you responded with 'wrong' every time
because my answers didn't match yours perfectly
doesn't mean I was wrong.

The only ones I really missed was the EOT
and I was right because my use of EOT is
just as valid as yours. Unless your explain
the initials they can mean whatever they are
valid for.

All my Mate answers were right. A first, second
and third Mate is still a Mate.

My answer for a deadman's switch is also
correct. It's the accepted use of the term.

If the captain doesn't stand a watch then he's
not doing his job. A watch doen't have to be
one continuous length of time. Any time the
captain is involved and giving orders he's on
watch. Only when he's sleeping or otherwise
indisposed is he not on watch.

You're just upset because I've never even
been on the bridge of a big ship and I
managed to get most of your questions
right.

Give me a day or two training and I could
easily run a big ship successfully. Besides
that, *I* would slow down to safe speed and
give sailboats and other vessels that sounded
one prolonged/two short blasts their rightful
stand-on status in restricted visibility.

S.Simon - a Captain, who with a day's hands-on
bridge training, could run a tighter ship than Shen44.



"Shen44" wrote in message ...
ect: Radar and Basic Nav.
From: "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom
Date: 09/02/2003 18:46 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

I thought the bell log was maintained traditionally by the oiler, and was a
record of
shaft RPMs. I assume now its automatic and merged with GPS output.

Actually, EG Neal almost got this one totally correct.
The "Bell" book used to be kept by the engineer on watch and another, by the
Mate on watch, while maneuvering, and was mainly a log of the time and type of
engine order, starting with SBE and ending with FWE (Some ships would call SBE
on Arrival) Symbols were used for the bells to facilitate noting them.
Some ships would also include major nav points in the Bell Book, but this was
rare.
Nowadays, this is an automated system, which includes just Engine orders and is
solely based on time .... no GPS input ..... sometimes one on the bridge and
one in the E.R.

Shen

Subject: Radar and Basic Nav.
From: "Simple Simon"

Hey, I got most of them right.

No, you got most of them wrong, which means you flunked this test for Master
and proves my point that you don't have a clue as to what's going on on a ship.

Just because you responded with 'wrong' every time
because my answers didn't match yours perfectly
doesn't mean I was wrong.

Everytime I responded with wrong, the answer was so far incorrect or showed a
total lack of knowledge, it deserved a "WRONG".

The only ones I really missed was the EOT
and I was right because my use of EOT is
just as valid as yours. Unless your explain
the initials they can mean whatever they are
valid for.

You're great at making excuses for your lack of knowledge, but as per usual, it
doesn't cut it.
The subject in question was what goes on on a bridge of a ship .... you say you
know it all, yet you don't know the simple initials EOT, used frequently
onboard a ship.

You missed most answers.

All my Mate answers were right. A first, second
and third Mate is still a Mate.

If you had any experience or knowledge of a ship, you'd know this to be
incorrect. Mates on a ship, are specific as to duties and experience level to
be expected. For instance, what are the duties of the Chief Mate?

My answer for a deadman's switch is also
correct. It's the accepted use of the term.

We're talking ships here, your answer was/is wrong.

If the captain doesn't stand a watch then he's
not doing his job. A watch doen't have to be
one continuous length of time. Any time the
captain is involved and giving orders he's on
watch. Only when he's sleeping or otherwise
indisposed is he not on watch.

LOL You keep trying anyway, but again, it doesn't cut it. The above is also
wrong.
Watches on ships are normally 4 hours, on the bridge. The Master stands none of
these (unless he's bored or wants to monitor a new Mate).
A Master is ON CALL, 24/7 and is on watch the whole time, awake or asleep, but,
that is not what we were asking, and as expected, you blew it.

You're just upset because I've never even
been on the bridge of a big ship and I
managed to get most of your questions
right.

LOL I'm not upset .... I'm smiling, cause most of the questions I asked were
simple and basic and easily quessed, if someone had any shipboard time .....
once again ....you flunked ..... I really expected you to do better.

Give me a day or two training and I could
easily run a big ship successfully.

G Would probably take you that long to find the bridge.

Besides
that, *I* would slow down to safe speed and
give sailboats and other vessels that sounded
one prolonged/two short blasts their rightful
stand-on status in restricted visibility.

EG No you wouldn't.


Shen

Wally wrote:

.... It does strike me, however, that things like radar and GPS are
rather easier to get to grips with than the traditional methods with chart
and compass.

Actually, they are easier to gain a false sense of security from.

If you don't have a solid foundation in navigation basics, you can't grasp what
the GPS is trying to tell you.


All that triangulation stuff, having to account for compass
variation and deviation, tides and currents, would be quite a bit of
learning for someone who's new to it.

Yes, but piloting basics are simpler than that. If you don't understand an LOP
or bearing/distance relationships in the first place, then a GPS is going to be
useless.

GPS is only a tool. It's a marvelous tool, almost like magic, but a great wrench
does not make a lousy mechanic any better.




FWIW, I think that radar and GPS are easier to learn, and should therefore
be learned first - on the basis that some sort of skill in knowing one's
course and position is better than none.

Sorry, I disagree strongly. The basics of navigation are relatively simple and
can be phrased in three short questions:

Where am I?
Which direction should I go?
What hazards are along my course?

GPS makes it a snap to answer the first two questions, but to use the
information you need to know the questions in the first place. And sadly, it
will not help at all with the third question. Radar will help a little, with
experience reading & interpreting the targets (the one thing a novice won't
have).

Unfortunately most people who don't know how to navigate very well gain a great
sense of security & confidence from GPS. That's real nice until it leads them
into trouble.... but I guess it's job security for Sea Tow...

Fresh Breezes- Doug King