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Perception
What about when not in sight?
Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: In a fog, as soon as vessels concerned come within sight of one another the sailboat is the stand-on vessel with respect to the motor vessel This means in a fog (when in sight) the pecking order applies. This loophole in the Rules is something that seems to go right over the heads of the group's tugboat captains. They cannot fathom the fact that 'in sight' also exists in restricted visibility as in a fog. Since 'in sight' exists in a fog then the pecking order exists in a fog. This is so logical that it cannot be argued. Yet the fools continue to argue it . . . S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Who is the stand on vessel in fog? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Joe, I'm surprised at you making an ignorant statement like you could care less about the COLREGS. Everybody who cares about safe and sane operation of boats of all kinds would do well to learn the COLREGS. Even if you aren't concerned about safety you should be concerned about liability. Knowing and following the COLREGS will eventually save you far more trouble than the little time spent avoiding acquiring this valuable knowledge. I recommend you visit my website and read the Novice Lessons where I give a very good and thorough explaination in layman's terms of the COLREGS. http://www.homestead.com/captneal/lesson.html S.Simon - knows the COLREGS better than any other individual here and better than all the tugboat captains combined which includes Rick, Otnmbrd, Morris, and Shen44. "Joe" wrote in message om... "katysails" wrote in message ... So the gamers should respect the people and the vessel with a goal and or a purpose. Racers are entoute and do have a goal and purpose. It is just not YOUR goal or purpose. They do have to follow COLREGS, though, in the process even though some forget that. Katy, If a man is mowing a lawn, would you expect him to stop so you can play baseball? He's trying to feed his kids. Yet you are just playing a game. If a man is sweeping a sidewalk, would you have him stop so you can Scotty can play jacks? You may have the right to demand him to stop, But the whole neighborhood will suffer a dirty sidewalk because you are selfish. I could care less about the COLREGS. It's not about the law, it's about the respect. Joe MSV RedCloud |
Perception
Good troll!
Cheers MC Joe wrote: I could care less about the COLREGS. It's not about the law, it's about the respect. |
Perception
And what about truckers taking people to a party! What if they are all gay?
Cheers MC Wally wrote: Joe wrote: If a man is mowing a lawn, would you expect him to stop so you can play baseball? He's trying to feed his kids. Yet you are just playing a game. You started this with the notion of "Cruisers vs Racers". Now you're trying to turn it into some sort of moral argument. Cruisers, it seems to me, cruise for pleasure. I could care less about the COLREGS. Do you also think that truckers should be allowed to drive on the wrong side of the road because they're making a living from driving? How about taxi drivers? Or taxi drivers taking people to a party? What if there are taxi drivers taking people to a party and truckers in contention for the same bit of road? Who gets priority then? It's not about the law, it's about the respect. What on earth are you talking about? It's not about the law or respect, it's about *safety*. -- Wally www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light. |
Perception
It's not about the law, it's about the respect.
Nope, For..it's always about the law. You can expect respect all you = want, but you're going to be very disappointed when it comes few and far = between. Rather, rejoice when it is there and ignore the rest. It = isn't worth getting ulcers over. --=20 katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Perception
ROFLMAO You're still grasping at straws, I see ..... so you now admit
that the sailboat is NOT a standon vessel, when it can't see the other vessel, only when it can see it ....progress, of sorts .... don't see any loophole. otn Simple Simon wrote: In a fog, as soon as vessels concerned come within sight of one another the sailboat is the stand-on vessel with respect to the motor vessel This means in a fog (when in sight) the pecking order applies. This loophole in the Rules is something that seems to go right over the heads of the group's tugboat captains. They cannot fathom the fact that 'in sight' also exists in restricted visibility as in a fog. Since 'in sight' exists in a fog then the pecking order exists in a fog. This is so logical that it cannot be argued. Yet the fools continue to argue it . . . S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Who is the stand on vessel in fog? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Joe, I'm surprised at you making an ignorant statement like you could care less about the COLREGS. Everybody who cares about safe and sane operation of boats of all kinds would do well to learn the COLREGS. Even if you aren't concerned about safety you should be concerned about liability. Knowing and following the COLREGS will eventually save you far more trouble than the little time spent avoiding acquiring this valuable knowledge. I recommend you visit my website and read the Novice Lessons where I give a very good and thorough explaination in layman's terms of the COLREGS. http://www.homestead.com/captneal/lesson.html S.Simon - knows the COLREGS better than any other individual here and better than all the tugboat captains combined which includes Rick, Otnmbrd, Morris, and Shen44. "Joe" wrote in message om... "katysails" wrote in message ... So the gamers should respect the people and the vessel with a goal and or a purpose. Racers are entoute and do have a goal and purpose. It is just not YOUR goal or purpose. They do have to follow COLREGS, though, in the process even though some forget that. Katy, If a man is mowing a lawn, would you expect him to stop so you can play baseball? He's trying to feed his kids. Yet you are just playing a game. If a man is sweeping a sidewalk, would you have him stop so you can Scotty can play jacks? You may have the right to demand him to stop, But the whole neighborhood will suffer a dirty sidewalk because you are selfish. I could care less about the COLREGS. It's not about the law, it's about the respect. Joe MSV RedCloud |
Perception
Its an interesting comment, one that we've discussed before. It may
actually have some validity in very light fog, which might be all Neal has any experiance in. However, it is the opinion of all of the commentators, the IMO, and the courts, that if there is any doubt as to the conditions, one must assume you are NOT in sight of one another. In thick fog (which has always been stipulated in these discussions) there will not be sufficient time for a powerboat to avoid collision if a sailboat assumes it is "standon"and continues at hull speed. This is why the rules stipulate that ALL VESSELS must slow when hearing a fog signal. An interesting point is that until 1972 this rule only applied to powerboats. Previous versions of the ColRegs (from about 1890 and 1948) had similar wording but only applied it to power, not sail. Obviously, the IMO decided that it was important that ALL VESSELS slow down in the fog when hearing a fog signal. They also eliminated the concept of "moderate speed" and replaced it with "safe speed." -jeff "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... In a fog, as soon as vessels concerned come within sight of one another the sailboat is the stand-on vessel with respect to the motor vessel This means in a fog (when in sight) the pecking order applies. This loophole in the Rules is something that seems to go right over the heads of the group's tugboat captains. They cannot fathom the fact that 'in sight' also exists in restricted visibility as in a fog. Since 'in sight' exists in a fog then the pecking order exists in a fog. This is so logical that it cannot be argued. Yet the fools continue to argue it . . . S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Who is the stand on vessel in fog? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Joe, I'm surprised at you making an ignorant statement like you could care less about the COLREGS. Everybody who cares about safe and sane operation of boats of all kinds would do well to learn the COLREGS. Even if you aren't concerned about safety you should be concerned about liability. Knowing and following the COLREGS will eventually save you far more trouble than the little time spent avoiding acquiring this valuable knowledge. I recommend you visit my website and read the Novice Lessons where I give a very good and thorough explaination in layman's terms of the COLREGS. http://www.homestead.com/captneal/lesson.html S.Simon - knows the COLREGS better than any other individual here and better than all the tugboat captains combined which includes Rick, Otnmbrd, Morris, and Shen44. "Joe" wrote in message om... "katysails" wrote in message ... So the gamers should respect the people and the vessel with a goal and or a purpose. Racers are entoute and do have a goal and purpose. It is just not YOUR goal or purpose. They do have to follow COLREGS, though, in the process even though some forget that. Katy, If a man is mowing a lawn, would you expect him to stop so you can play baseball? He's trying to feed his kids. Yet you are just playing a game. If a man is sweeping a sidewalk, would you have him stop so you can Scotty can play jacks? You may have the right to demand him to stop, But the whole neighborhood will suffer a dirty sidewalk because you are selfish. I could care less about the COLREGS. It's not about the law, it's about the respect. Joe MSV RedCloud |
Perception
When not in sight in a fog one must rely upon the different
sound signals given by motor vessels as opposed to the remainder of the pecking order. Any motor vessel, upon hearing the fog signal of another vessel above it in the pecking order, must prepare to give way the moment said vessels come in sight of each other. This means there is, indeed, a give way vessel in restricted visibility. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... What about when not in sight? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: In a fog, as soon as vessels concerned come within sight of one another the sailboat is the stand-on vessel with respect to the motor vessel This means in a fog (when in sight) the pecking order applies. This loophole in the Rules is something that seems to go right over the heads of the group's tugboat captains. They cannot fathom the fact that 'in sight' also exists in restricted visibility as in a fog. Since 'in sight' exists in a fog then the pecking order exists in a fog. This is so logical that it cannot be argued. Yet the fools continue to argue it . . . S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Who is the stand on vessel in fog? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Joe, I'm surprised at you making an ignorant statement like you could care less about the COLREGS. Everybody who cares about safe and sane operation of boats of all kinds would do well to learn the COLREGS. Even if you aren't concerned about safety you should be concerned about liability. Knowing and following the COLREGS will eventually save you far more trouble than the little time spent avoiding acquiring this valuable knowledge. I recommend you visit my website and read the Novice Lessons where I give a very good and thorough explaination in layman's terms of the COLREGS. http://www.homestead.com/captneal/lesson.html S.Simon - knows the COLREGS better than any other individual here and better than all the tugboat captains combined which includes Rick, Otnmbrd, Morris, and Shen44. "Joe" wrote in message om... "katysails" wrote in message ... So the gamers should respect the people and the vessel with a goal and or a purpose. Racers are entoute and do have a goal and purpose. It is just not YOUR goal or purpose. They do have to follow COLREGS, though, in the process even though some forget that. Katy, If a man is mowing a lawn, would you expect him to stop so you can play baseball? He's trying to feed his kids. Yet you are just playing a game. If a man is sweeping a sidewalk, would you have him stop so you can Scotty can play jacks? You may have the right to demand him to stop, But the whole neighborhood will suffer a dirty sidewalk because you are selfish. I could care less about the COLREGS. It's not about the law, it's about the respect. Joe MSV RedCloud |
Perception
I admitted no such thing.
When not in sight in a fog one must rely upon the different sound signals given by motor vessels as opposed to the remainder of the pecking order. Any motor vessel, upon hearing the fog signal of another vessel above it in the pecking order, must prepare to give way the moment said vessels come in sight of each other. This means there is, indeed, a give way vessel in restricted visibility. S.Simon "otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net... ROFLMAO You're still grasping at straws, I see ..... so you now admit that the sailboat is NOT a standon vessel, when it can't see the other vessel, only when it can see it ....progress, of sorts .... don't see any loophole. otn Simple Simon wrote: In a fog, as soon as vessels concerned come within sight of one another the sailboat is the stand-on vessel with respect to the motor vessel This means in a fog (when in sight) the pecking order applies. This loophole in the Rules is something that seems to go right over the heads of the group's tugboat captains. They cannot fathom the fact that 'in sight' also exists in restricted visibility as in a fog. Since 'in sight' exists in a fog then the pecking order exists in a fog. This is so logical that it cannot be argued. Yet the fools continue to argue it . . . S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Who is the stand on vessel in fog? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Joe, I'm surprised at you making an ignorant statement like you could care less about the COLREGS. Everybody who cares about safe and sane operation of boats of all kinds would do well to learn the COLREGS. Even if you aren't concerned about safety you should be concerned about liability. Knowing and following the COLREGS will eventually save you far more trouble than the little time spent avoiding acquiring this valuable knowledge. I recommend you visit my website and read the Novice Lessons where I give a very good and thorough explaination in layman's terms of the COLREGS. http://www.homestead.com/captneal/lesson.html S.Simon - knows the COLREGS better than any other individual here and better than all the tugboat captains combined which includes Rick, Otnmbrd, Morris, and Shen44. "Joe" wrote in message om... "katysails" wrote in message ... So the gamers should respect the people and the vessel with a goal and or a purpose. Racers are entoute and do have a goal and purpose. It is just not YOUR goal or purpose. They do have to follow COLREGS, though, in the process even though some forget that. Katy, If a man is mowing a lawn, would you expect him to stop so you can play baseball? He's trying to feed his kids. Yet you are just playing a game. If a man is sweeping a sidewalk, would you have him stop so you can Scotty can play jacks? You may have the right to demand him to stop, But the whole neighborhood will suffer a dirty sidewalk because you are selfish. I could care less about the COLREGS. It's not about the law, it's about the respect. Joe MSV RedCloud |
Perception
Jeff,
Back in the old days some of the schooners could indeed proceed at a good clip (clipper ship, get it?). I'm surprised you think the recent ruling that ALL vessels slowing down was because of anything other than a proliferation of motor vessels becoming such a hazard that the very safety of even large, fast sailing ships was in danger. The bottom line is only those vessels who are going fast must slow down. Those already going slow need not slow down and these include small cruising yacht restricted by their hull speed. The fact remains there are two different sound signals one for motor vessels and another for all vessels above them in the pecking order. These signals alone shout out loudly and clearly "PECKING ORDER" and pecking order means stand-on and give-way vessels. You always seem to fall back on your lame argument about a fog so thick that you can't see your own bow let alone another ship. Well, tough! One instance does not make a Rule. My instance of a normal fog in which ships become visible to one another and hence must follow the in-sight rules even though they are in or near an area of restricted visibility is all that's needed to prove there IS a pecking order and hence a give-way and stand-on vessel in restricted visibility. The logic here is unassailable making the statement true till proven false and thus far you and the other tugboat captain's lame (by the nature of their specificity) arguments have come up short. S.Simon - irrefuteable "Jeff Morris" wrote in message m... Its an interesting comment, one that we've discussed before. It may actually have some validity in very light fog, which might be all Neal has any experiance in. However, it is the opinion of all of the commentators, the IMO, and the courts, that if there is any doubt as to the conditions, one must assume you are NOT in sight of one another. In thick fog (which has always been stipulated in these discussions) there will not be sufficient time for a powerboat to avoid collision if a sailboat assumes it is "standon"and continues at hull speed. This is why the rules stipulate that ALL VESSELS must slow when hearing a fog signal. An interesting point is that until 1972 this rule only applied to powerboats. Previous versions of the ColRegs (from about 1890 and 1948) had similar wording but only applied it to power, not sail. Obviously, the IMO decided that it was important that ALL VESSELS slow down in the fog when hearing a fog signal. They also eliminated the concept of "moderate speed" and replaced it with "safe speed." -jeff "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... In a fog, as soon as vessels concerned come within sight of one another the sailboat is the stand-on vessel with respect to the motor vessel This means in a fog (when in sight) the pecking order applies. This loophole in the Rules is something that seems to go right over the heads of the group's tugboat captains. They cannot fathom the fact that 'in sight' also exists in restricted visibility as in a fog. Since 'in sight' exists in a fog then the pecking order exists in a fog. This is so logical that it cannot be argued. Yet the fools continue to argue it . . . S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Who is the stand on vessel in fog? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Joe, I'm surprised at you making an ignorant statement like you could care less about the COLREGS. Everybody who cares about safe and sane operation of boats of all kinds would do well to learn the COLREGS. Even if you aren't concerned about safety you should be concerned about liability. Knowing and following the COLREGS will eventually save you far more trouble than the little time spent avoiding acquiring this valuable knowledge. I recommend you visit my website and read the Novice Lessons where I give a very good and thorough explaination in layman's terms of the COLREGS. http://www.homestead.com/captneal/lesson.html S.Simon - knows the COLREGS better than any other individual here and better than all the tugboat captains combined which includes Rick, Otnmbrd, Morris, and Shen44. "Joe" wrote in message om... "katysails" wrote in message ... So the gamers should respect the people and the vessel with a goal and or a purpose. Racers are entoute and do have a goal and purpose. It is just not YOUR goal or purpose. They do have to follow COLREGS, though, in the process even though some forget that. Katy, If a man is mowing a lawn, would you expect him to stop so you can play baseball? He's trying to feed his kids. Yet you are just playing a game. If a man is sweeping a sidewalk, would you have him stop so you can Scotty can play jacks? You may have the right to demand him to stop, But the whole neighborhood will suffer a dirty sidewalk because you are selfish. I could care less about the COLREGS. It's not about the law, it's about the respect. Joe MSV RedCloud |
Perception
Subject: Perception
From: "Simple Simon" In a fog, as soon as vessels concerned come within sight of one another the sailboat is the stand-on vessel with respect to the motor vessel Not necessarily ..... what if the sailboat can see the motor vessel, but the motor vessel can't see the sail vessel? What if the motor vessel is in a TSS or narrow channel? What if both vessels are so close, that BOTH vessels need to take action to avoid collision? This means in a fog (when in sight) the pecking order applies. Stupid statement This loophole in the Rules is something that seems to go right over the heads of the group's tugboat captains. They cannot fathom the fact that 'in sight' also exists in restricted visibility as in a fog. Since 'in sight' exists in a fog then the pecking order exists in a fog. This is so logical that it cannot be argued. Yet the fools continue to argue it . . . S.Simon Sheesh .... the above, is the rambling of some beginner, without a clue. The term used in the rules is restricted visibility (due to whatever cause) and refers to situations where the vessels are NOT in sight of each other. Come on, Neal.... you've been trying to wiggle out of this mess, to no avail, for so long and in so many ways, you've reduced yourself to a point of nonsensical rambling. Shen |
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