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Hull Flexing... yet another Navvieİ mistake
The navigatorİ wrote:
I was referring to the 'only place' comment by DSK. That wasn't me. You seem to have a problem keeping up. DSK |
Hull Flexing
Usually? Good lord.
Cheers MC Peter Wiley wrote: Plastic boats may have their decks 'glassed to the hull but usually it's a handful of self-tappers and a tube of sikaflex. No rigidity there. |
Hull Flexing... yet another Navvieİ mistake
Bwhahhahahahahaha. No wonder you've forgotten all your 'engineering'.
Cheers MC DSK wrote: The navigatorİ wrote: I was referring to the 'only place' comment by DSK. That wasn't me. You seem to have a problem keeping up. DSK |
Hull Flexing
Well?
Cheers MC The_navigatorİ wrote: But the boat is not solid steel is it? Cheers MC Peter Wiley wrote: Actually quite a few sailboats *are* much more rigid than you seem to know. You're taking your experience on plastic boats and assuming it is generally applicable. The flex in a steel or ferrocement hull is certainly there (everything flexes to some degree), but it's a fraction of what is common in lightweight toy racing boats which are built to minimal standards of seaworthiness and do, indeed, flex. In fact, the toy boats often break when coming off a fairly moderate wave, as recent Sydney-Hobart races have shown so well. The remark about water being much less compressible than the boat is pure & utter bull****. Even frozen water is a lot more compressible than steel. Also has lower shear strength, tensile strength etc. As to measurement of a boat to 0.005", I can easily believe that this is possible. It's not even all that difficult. Whether there's any point and whether the measurement is repeatable are different issues. Peter Wiley In article , The_navigatorİ wrote: That boats are built differently has nothing to do with it. Sail boats are not rigid nor even near it. To be as rigid as you suggest would probably mean they would not float. If you had ever been in a real boat beating to windward your would know they are *not* rigid. Put your hand on the forstay and look at it unloading when she buries her bow and look at it going tight on the crest (that's revealed by the luff bending). It's loading up/unloading because the boat is flexing. If you ever get the chance (assuming that any boat owner could put up with your big mouth and BS) have a good hard look at the hull of a boat pounding hard to windward and look and feel hull panels flexing. The boat needs has to flex to reduce impact loadings because water is much less compressable than the boat. Once again you reveal your lack of experience with big boats by suggesting otherwise. This typifies your inability to grasp even simple ideas. As for measurent of a boat to 5 thou, look at the coefficent of expansion of say GRP or even Al (which expands muchg less) and then tell me how much a boat moves during a typical day/night temperature cycle. Now you want to tell me it's easy to measure a 5 thou deflection over a 40' boat? Even if the boat builder had access to interferometric equipment (which I'm sure they did not use -as there would be no point in such an accurate measurement) it would still be hard. If you think it's so easy how come you need a 'crew'. Lets face it this is yet more Doug Kig (I'm a ****ing hero) BS. Have'nt you ever wonder why you don't make more money -after all, you are such an expert... My point is that Ella is not a large racing boat and yet still has more than 1 ton rig tension. Cheers MC DSK wrote: The navigatorİ wrote: I'd say It's BS because boats are simply not that rigid Oh yeah, and all boats are built to the same structural standard, aren't they. and it's hard to measure to an accuracy of 4 thou on big objects. Now that is total BS. It costs, but if you're willing to pay, I'll bring a crew and and gear, and show you how to measure movement in any axis on objects of any size & orientation down to 5 ten thousands +/- 1 It's part of what I do for a living, thanks very much. The NIST has occasionally asked me for advice on this type of thing. .... Even Ella has a backstay tension of 2,500 lbs when beating. Gee, and there's no difference between "2500#" and 15,000# is there? Why do I bother answering your posts? DSK |
Hull Flexing
Repeatability is always an issue when measuring things,
The navigatorİ wrote: yes that's why. In other words, no particaluar reason. You just feel like picking nits and that's the only one you can think of. Really? Is it you that's been following me around all my life? Maybe you can really tell me how many big boats I've sailed, I never did keep a written tally myself. Of course not. Then why this fixation you seem to have about my sailing experience and knowledge? Now you want to tell me it's easy to measure a 5 thou deflection over a 40' boat? Sure is. All you need is a yardstick slightly longer than the boat. Yardstick. Riiiiight. And a dial indicater, which I mentioned earlier. Some duct tape would be nice, although that might bring up hysteresis issues (what with 'repeatability' being one of your personal bugaboos and all). Even if the boat builder had access to interferometric equipment (which I'm sure they did not use Now you're claiming you were there? How do you know what they used? Want to put money on it? Let's email them. Alas, they are out of business. In any event, if you were there, then you can tell us the methodology (and why IYHO it's all wrong). If you weren't then you know less about it than me yet want to dispute the issue. Does that sound intelligent? Not really, if you know how. The usual pompous DSK response that hints at knowlege where there is none. I know how, you don't. You claim it's difficult and/or impossible, based on... umm, your vast knowledge? This gets funnier and funnier. Now, lets go back to your original statement which I said was BS. Let me remind lest you think you've moved goal posts and escaped. You said: "At one point FROM the late 1970s THROUGH MAYBE the late 1980s it was fairly common to have a GEODESIC GRID of aluminium struts inside, COMPLETELY OBSTRUCTING THE CABIN." The caps are to highlight the BS. Completely obstructing the cabin? Bwhahhahaha. BULL**** EXPOSED. I'm glad you stay up late at night worrying about this sort of nit picking. I'm sure it keeps you out of worse trouble. Meanwhile, what I said about the boats is true. None of it is BS, the 'trusses' (happy again?) were a total PITA. The boats were bruisers above decks and below. Do you still think it's all BS? Will you never learn? But I think you've confirmed I seem to know more about boat design and construction than you. Yes, that's why you know so much about class rating rules, structural rigidity & characteristics contributing to it, as well as the history of specific types of structures in boats. Thank you so much for making this all clear, Navvieİ Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Hull Flexing
Bwhhahahahahhahaa.
Cheers MC DSK wrote: Repeatability is always an issue when measuring things, The navigatorİ wrote: yes that's why. In other words, no particaluar reason. You just feel like picking nits and that's the only one you can think of. You idiot. Obviously you don't make a living in precision measuremnts. Really? Is it you that's been following me around all my life? Maybe you can really tell me how many big boats I've sailed, I never did keep a written tally myself. Of course not. Then why this fixation you seem to have about my sailing experience and knowledge? So your imagination is reality? Now you want to tell me it's easy to measure a 5 thou deflection over a 40' boat? Sure is. All you need is a yardstick slightly longer than the boat. Yardstick. Riiiiight. And a dial indicater, which I mentioned earlier. Some duct tape would be nice, although that might bring up hysteresis issues (what with 'repeatability' being one of your personal bugaboos and all). Duct tape for a precision 5 thou measurememt. Oh I can see it now! The National standards institute call up Doug and say, we are having trouble measuring a 40' boat to better than a thou and Doug says: You need duct tape. Bwhahhahahahaha. You are a great engineer! Even if the boat builder had access to interferometric equipment (which I'm sure they did not use Now you're claiming you were there? How do you know what they used? Want to put money on it? Let's email them. Alas, they are out of business. In any event, if you were there, then you can tell us the methodology (and why IYHO it's all wrong). If you weren't then you know less about it than me yet want to dispute the issue. Does that sound intelligent? But you don't know anything as you've not posted a single fact. Not even heresay really. I say again, all 40' racing boats deflect more than 5 thou with a 10,000 kg backstay tension. To even think your imagined measurement migh be true is completely ludicrous. Go talk to a racing boat designer. Not really, if you know how. The usual pompous DSK response that hints at knowlege where there is none. I know how, you don't. You claim it's difficult and/or impossible, based on... umm, your vast knowledge? This gets funnier and funnier. I said it was hard. You said it was easy remember? Now, lets go back to your original statement which I said was BS. Let me remind lest you think you've moved goal posts and escaped. You said: "At one point FROM the late 1970s THROUGH MAYBE the late 1980s it was fairly common to have a GEODESIC GRID of aluminium struts inside, COMPLETELY OBSTRUCTING THE CABIN." The caps are to highlight the BS. Completely obstructing the cabin? Bwhahhahaha. BULL**** EXPOSED. I'm glad you stay up late at night worrying about this sort of nit picking. I'm sure it keeps you out of worse trouble. Meanwhile, what I said about the boats is true. None of it is BS, the 'trusses' (happy again?) were a total PITA. The boats were bruisers above decks and below. "None of it is BS"? Still in denial Doggie? Do you still think it's all BS? Will you never learn? But I think you've confirmed I seem to know more about boat design and construction than you. Yes, that's why you know so much about class rating rules, structural rigidity & characteristics contributing to it, as well as the history of specific types of structures in boats. I never said that, I just said you were BSing as usual -and you still are. So now you know about yacht structural design? Did you do a course in Naval Architecture in your imagination too? Didn't they talk about hull deflection under rigging loads? Bwhahhahahahahaha. |
Hull Flexing
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Hull Flexing
That's a more!
Cheers MC Flying Tadpole wrote: You mean, you want a heroic ode, based on the poor elephant seal, cumbersome and easily attacked by vicious sealers on land, speedy and graceful on/in the water, but nevertheless doomed by its liberal outlook and engineering limitations? FT The navigatorİ wrote: More! Cheers MC Flying Tadpole wrote: Well, it's in harmony with its subject matter, what did you expect? The navigatorİ wrote: What a pathetic post. Cheers MC Flying Tadpole wrote: Peter Wiley wrote: snip The issue isn't repeatability at all. You're merely trying to shift goalposts. Your Ella is a racing boat and built like one - minimum weight and what you see WRT flexing is what you'd expect. As a class they break in really bad weather because they're outside their design envelope. Was it so bad a voyage/tour of duty, Peter, that even on your return you insist on clubbing insensible elephant seals? |
Hull Flexing
You mean, you want a heroic ode, based on the poor elephant seal,
cumbersome and easily attacked by vicious sealers on land, speedy and graceful on/in the water, but nevertheless doomed by its liberal outlook and engineering limitations? FT The navigatorİ wrote: More! Cheers MC Flying Tadpole wrote: Well, it's in harmony with its subject matter, what did you expect? The navigatorİ wrote: What a pathetic post. Cheers MC Flying Tadpole wrote: Peter Wiley wrote: snip The issue isn't repeatability at all. You're merely trying to shift goalposts. Your Ella is a racing boat and built like one - minimum weight and what you see WRT flexing is what you'd expect. As a class they break in really bad weather because they're outside their design envelope. Was it so bad a voyage/tour of duty, Peter, that even on your return you insist on clubbing insensible elephant seals? -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace! http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com |
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