"Schoonertrash" wrote in message news:

I rechecked my
paperwork on the license. Yep! I can be recalled to duty. Not military
per se but Merchant Marine.

Wanna bet? If the Navy needs you you will go to the Navy

If you are called or not depends on the 'need'.

Correct.


WWII they took AB's, yachties and whatever else and made mates and
eventually Captain's of them.


Think of Merchant Mariners and you don't often think of war heroes.
Big mistake.

Ben Hammer, executive director of the Battle of the Atlantic
Historical Society, spent the day thinking about one particularly
gallant hero of the 12,000 Merchant Mariners who were killed in action
during WWII.

These mostly forgotten heroes died as they delivered ammunition and
supplies to our troops across a U-boat-infested Atlantic Ocean.

Hammer, a former Merchant Mariner from the post-WWII era, says these
brave men, who died on the high seas and in POW camps, have been
treated as second-class citizens by history and the United States
government - and he thinks it's time they receive their just
recognition.

"The Merchant Marine suffered the highest per-capita casualties of any
U.S. service group in WWII," says Hammer. "And 142 Cadet midshipmen
were KIA in WWII. No other service academy - not West Point, not
Annapolis - sent its undergraduates off to serve and die in WWII. This
is why the motto of the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy at King's Point,
Long Island, is 'Acta Non Verba' or 'Deeds Not Words.' "

Hammer says it was 60 years ago last Friday - on Sept. 27, 1942 - that
Merchant Marine motto was embodied by an 18-year-old Kings Point
Cadet-Midshipman named Edwin J. O'Hara, whom he believes still
deserves a Congressional Medal of Honor.

O'Hara was on his first trip from the academy, aboard the Stephen
Hopkins - one of 2,770 Liberty ships mass-produced for the war effort
- sailing out of South Africa for Dutch Guyana to pick up a cargo of
badly needed bauxite to make aluminum for U.S. fighter planes.

En route, the Stephen Hopkins was intercepted by the better-armed
German auxiliary cruiser, the Steir. The Steir blasted the Hopkins
with its 5.9-inch guns, setting it ablaze. As it sank, the crew
boarded lifeboats.

"Then the Steir shelled the ship's lifeboats," Hammer says, "and raked
the decks with murderous fire. Hitler had ordered that American
merchant seamen should not be spared. Amid the carnage that day,
Midshipman O'Hara raced up from the engine room and single- handedly
cleared the dead away from the Stephen Hopkins's 4-inch gun and
proceeded to load, aim, and fire repeatedly into the Steir until he
ran out of ammunition and was killed.

"The Steir caught fire and eventually sank, providing the opportunity
for one lifeboat to escape. A month later, the lifeboat reached Brazil
with 12 survivors who told of O'Hara's selfless, heroic action."

Despite President Franklin D. Roosevelt's order that merchant mariners
receive decorations on the same basis as other servicemen, O'Hara was
never considered for a Congressional Medal of Honor for "conspicuous
gallantry above and beyond the call of duty."

"I believe that if Midshipman O'Hara had been in the United States
Navy instead of the Merchant Marine, he would have won a
[congressional medal]," says Hammer. "O'Hara gave his life to save a
dozen lives and personally sank the only German surface warship sunk
by U.S. forces in the entire Battle of the Atlantic during WWII.

"The U.S. Navy destroyed many U-boats. But the only German surface
warship sunk by the United States was sunk by a Merchant Mariner."

Still, Hammer says, the Merchant Marine was treated like the *******
child of the U.S. services. "Call it old-fashioned bigotry," he says.
"About 20% of the Merchant Mariners in WWII were black, another 20%
were Jews, and many were officers. There were blacks in the U.S. Navy,
but they were only allowed to serve in mess details, and only about 8%
of the U.S. Navy were Jews, and very few in leadership roles.

"People fell for Nazi propaganda that the Merchant Marine was filled
with draft dodgers and war profiteers. But Merchant Mariners earned
about the same money as U.S. Navy sailors, with less benefits, no G.I.
Bill, plus they had to pay for their own landside living
accommodations. They also were refused entry into the USO and Red
Cross clubs. And unlike other servicemen, they received no pay for the
time they spent as POWs."

One bronze memorial
Hammer says that rather than being draft dodgers, many Merchant
Mariners had been rejected by the military for being too old or young,
because they were deaf, or blind in one eye.

The only shrine to these forgotten heroes is a privately erected
bronze memorial on Old Fleet Landing Basin Breakwater adjacent to Pier
A in Battery Park.

"I think to commemorate the 60th anniversary of his heroics, President
Bush should award a . . . [congressional medal] to Midshipman O'Hara,"
says Hammer.

"I also believe the 12,000 names of the Merchant Mariners who died in
WWII should be enshrined in U.S. government granite somewhere. I think
the City of New York should treat our private memorial as an official
war memorial. And I think historians should pay a lot more attention
to the contribution these brave men made to the war effort of WWII."
Deeds Not Words.





Maybe only for running military tugs but it
freed up others for, in turn, bigger things. During the Viet Nam years the
need for cannon fodder dropped the entrance requirements to the lowest
levels since . ..when?

Korea. Cannon fodder seems a thing of the past IMO. Thats why we most
likely will not see many more Congressional medals of Honor awarded.


Could Neal end up commanding a Navy Tug or LCI?

Sure, many of the large shipyards have yard tugs under 25gt. In the
WW11 era he would be asked to watch and report on sub in the gulf,
many came in. Even Hemmingway patroled for subs in the Gulf on his
boat.


Joe
MSV RedCloud

No. 25 ton's is not enough. But a shore boat is a distinct possibility.
Humour aside they go for the unlimited tonnage guys first, 1600 next, 500
ton thereafter and if needed the 200 ton guys with the emphasis on Any
Ocean.. But the rest of us are on the hook . .. As an aside a year
or so ago I ran into a retired 500 ton Captain who was sitting for his 1600
ton license. Age 70. I asked him why? He just gave me a funny look and
said, "In case my country needs me." Now it's true I'm cynical about a lot
of things . . . .but I thoroughly understood and appreciated his answer.






MST

"Simple Simon" wrote in message ...
Unlike Bobsprit and some of the other whining, asshole
liberals who have never given anything to the country and
who think the country owes them a free ride, I am willing
to fight and die for this great country should the necessity
arise. All the free-riders whose only claim to fame is how
long and how loud they complain can kiss my ass.

I served in the U.S. Army back during the Viet Nam war.
I was a military policeman and everyone said "You poor
S.O.B., that's one of the highest mortality jobs in the
service.

What a crappy job. IIRR we had a Master at Arms disappear from the
ship one night at sea. A darkend deck in an open ocean can be very
dangerious for a hated sailor.

Joe

You drive at the front of the convoys and hit
all the mines or you get shot up in ambushes and if
that isn't bad enough if you **** off your own men
too much you become a victim of friendly fire."

As you can see they were wrong! I'm still here,
ornery as ever.

S.Simon


"Joe" wrote in message om...
Jeff, Neal,and the other members of the Merchant Marines.

Thanks for standing in line to be called to active duty if the need arises.

Best Regards,
Joe

Joe wrote:

snip

Hammer says it was 60 years ago last Friday - on Sept. 27, 1942 - that
Merchant Marine motto was embodied by an 18-year-old Kings Point
Cadet-Midshipman named Edwin J. O'Hara, whom he believes still
deserves a Congressional Medal of Honor.

snip

"I believe that if Midshipman O'Hara had been in the United States
Navy instead of the Merchant Marine, he would have won a
[congressional medal]," says Hammer. "O'Hara gave his life to save a
dozen lives and personally sank the only German surface warship sunk
by U.S. forces in the entire Battle of the Atlantic during WWII.


Thank you for that bit of history, Joe, I was totally unaware of
it. Clearly I'm not a New Yorker...

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace!
http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com

I never knew that the US navy never sank a German warship. There is no
doubt that the merchant marine sailor were very very brave, facing such
terrible losses.

Cheers MC

Joe wrote:

"Schoonertrash" wrote in message news:

I rechecked my

paperwork on the license. Yep! I can be recalled to duty. Not military
per se but Merchant Marine.


Wanna bet? If the Navy needs you you will go to the Navy

If you are called or not depends on the 'need'.

Correct.



WWII they took AB's, yachties and whatever else and made mates and
eventually Captain's of them.



Think of Merchant Mariners and you don't often think of war heroes.
Big mistake.

Ben Hammer, executive director of the Battle of the Atlantic
Historical Society, spent the day thinking about one particularly
gallant hero of the 12,000 Merchant Mariners who were killed in action
during WWII.

These mostly forgotten heroes died as they delivered ammunition and
supplies to our troops across a U-boat-infested Atlantic Ocean.

Hammer, a former Merchant Mariner from the post-WWII era, says these
brave men, who died on the high seas and in POW camps, have been
treated as second-class citizens by history and the United States
government - and he thinks it's time they receive their just
recognition.

"The Merchant Marine suffered the highest per-capita casualties of any
U.S. service group in WWII," says Hammer. "And 142 Cadet midshipmen
were KIA in WWII. No other service academy - not West Point, not
Annapolis - sent its undergraduates off to serve and die in WWII. This
is why the motto of the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy at King's Point,
Long Island, is 'Acta Non Verba' or 'Deeds Not Words.' "

Hammer says it was 60 years ago last Friday - on Sept. 27, 1942 - that
Merchant Marine motto was embodied by an 18-year-old Kings Point
Cadet-Midshipman named Edwin J. O'Hara, whom he believes still
deserves a Congressional Medal of Honor.

O'Hara was on his first trip from the academy, aboard the Stephen
Hopkins - one of 2,770 Liberty ships mass-produced for the war effort
- sailing out of South Africa for Dutch Guyana to pick up a cargo of
badly needed bauxite to make aluminum for U.S. fighter planes.

En route, the Stephen Hopkins was intercepted by the better-armed
German auxiliary cruiser, the Steir. The Steir blasted the Hopkins
with its 5.9-inch guns, setting it ablaze. As it sank, the crew
boarded lifeboats.

"Then the Steir shelled the ship's lifeboats," Hammer says, "and raked
the decks with murderous fire. Hitler had ordered that American
merchant seamen should not be spared. Amid the carnage that day,
Midshipman O'Hara raced up from the engine room and single- handedly
cleared the dead away from the Stephen Hopkins's 4-inch gun and
proceeded to load, aim, and fire repeatedly into the Steir until he
ran out of ammunition and was killed.

"The Steir caught fire and eventually sank, providing the opportunity
for one lifeboat to escape. A month later, the lifeboat reached Brazil
with 12 survivors who told of O'Hara's selfless, heroic action."

Despite President Franklin D. Roosevelt's order that merchant mariners
receive decorations on the same basis as other servicemen, O'Hara was
never considered for a Congressional Medal of Honor for "conspicuous
gallantry above and beyond the call of duty."

"I believe that if Midshipman O'Hara had been in the United States
Navy instead of the Merchant Marine, he would have won a
[congressional medal]," says Hammer. "O'Hara gave his life to save a
dozen lives and personally sank the only German surface warship sunk
by U.S. forces in the entire Battle of the Atlantic during WWII.

"The U.S. Navy destroyed many U-boats. But the only German surface
warship sunk by the United States was sunk by a Merchant Mariner."

Still, Hammer says, the Merchant Marine was treated like the *******
child of the U.S. services. "Call it old-fashioned bigotry," he says.
"About 20% of the Merchant Mariners in WWII were black, another 20%
were Jews, and many were officers. There were blacks in the U.S. Navy,
but they were only allowed to serve in mess details, and only about 8%
of the U.S. Navy were Jews, and very few in leadership roles.

"People fell for Nazi propaganda that the Merchant Marine was filled
with draft dodgers and war profiteers. But Merchant Mariners earned
about the same money as U.S. Navy sailors, with less benefits, no G.I.
Bill, plus they had to pay for their own landside living
accommodations. They also were refused entry into the USO and Red
Cross clubs. And unlike other servicemen, they received no pay for the
time they spent as POWs."

One bronze memorial
Hammer says that rather than being draft dodgers, many Merchant
Mariners had been rejected by the military for being too old or young,
because they were deaf, or blind in one eye.

The only shrine to these forgotten heroes is a privately erected
bronze memorial on Old Fleet Landing Basin Breakwater adjacent to Pier
A in Battery Park.

"I think to commemorate the 60th anniversary of his heroics, President
Bush should award a . . . [congressional medal] to Midshipman O'Hara,"
says Hammer.

"I also believe the 12,000 names of the Merchant Mariners who died in
WWII should be enshrined in U.S. government granite somewhere. I think
the City of New York should treat our private memorial as an official
war memorial. And I think historians should pay a lot more attention
to the contribution these brave men made to the war effort of WWII."
Deeds Not Words.





Maybe only for running military tugs but it

freed up others for, in turn, bigger things. During the Viet Nam years the
need for cannon fodder dropped the entrance requirements to the lowest
levels since . ..when?


Korea. Cannon fodder seems a thing of the past IMO. Thats why we most
likely will not see many more Congressional medals of Honor awarded.


Could Neal end up commanding a Navy Tug or LCI?

Sure, many of the large shipyards have yard tugs under 25gt. In the
WW11 era he would be asked to watch and report on sub in the gulf,
many came in. Even Hemmingway patroled for subs in the Gulf on his
boat.


Joe
MSV RedCloud


No. 25 ton's is not enough. But a shore boat is a distinct possibility.
Humour aside they go for the unlimited tonnage guys first, 1600 next, 500
ton thereafter and if needed the 200 ton guys with the emphasis on Any
Ocean.. But the rest of us are on the hook . .. As an aside a year
or so ago I ran into a retired 500 ton Captain who was sitting for his 1600
ton license. Age 70. I asked him why? He just gave me a funny look and
said, "In case my country needs me." Now it's true I'm cynical about a lot
of things . . . .but I thoroughly understood and appreciated his answer.






MST

"Joe" wrote in message
om...

Think of Merchant Mariners and you don't often think of war heroes.
Big mistake.
snip


Good post!



Regards


Donal
--

Capetanios Oz wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:22:04 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:


"Joe" wrote in message
. com...

Think of Merchant Mariners and you don't often think of war heroes.
Big mistake.
snip


Good post!

You needed to be reminded?

Not really. However, I think that many people have no idea about the
dreadful losses suffered by the merchant marine on the "Atlantic Run".


They needed more courage than the military personell who served on
fortified naval vessels.



Regards


Donal
--

Capetanios Oz wrote in message
...
Yep, sorta like no-one counts civilain losses in Iraq.
A convoy gets attacked and ONE US soldiers is killed.
That makes the papers, no mention is made of the SIX contract drivers
also killed!

I've tried to point this out........

Why are reporters denied access to hospitals in Iraq?



Regards


Donal
--

6 people died in a crash on I80 today. .


Captain Kangaroo wrote ...

Yep, sorta like no-one counts civilain losses in Iraq.
A convoy gets attacked and ONE US soldiers is killed.
That makes the papers, no mention is made of the SIX contract drivers
also killed!

Capetanios Oz wrote in message
...
| On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:21:46 -0500, "Scott Vernon"
| wrote:
|
| 6 people died in a crash on I80 today. .
|
| ~ 80 were shot dead today in the US

Yeah.... but it took 460 rounds of ammo!

CM

Capetanios Oz wrote in message
...
| On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:31:07 -0400, "Capt. Mooron"
| wrote:
|
|
| Capetanios Oz wrote in message
| .. .
| | On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:21:46 -0500, "Scott Vernon"
| | wrote:
| |
| | 6 people died in a crash on I80 today. .
| |
| | ~ 80 were shot dead today in the US
|
| Yeah.... but it took 460 rounds of ammo!
|
| CM
|
| Tell me why do the bangers hold their pistols sideways?

They ain't hittin' but one shot in 10 so why not look kewl while you're
****in' up.

Seriously? It's idiotic with a semi auto ejection, useless with a revolver
and serves no purpose unless you have weak wrists and a left hand twist on
the rifling.

CM