Another thing to consider as well. According to the COLREGS
any vessel that has operational radar installed is required to
use it at all times when underway - even with unlimited
visibility. Do you really want to be washed with microwaves
the whole time you're sailing?

Then there's the COLREG requirement that in restricted vis.
if you have radar you must plot and ascertain the course of
all traffic you see on the screen. This is a lot of work and
very difficult on a small sailboat that is being tossed around
by any seas and wakes that may be evident. Once you do
get the coursed plotted it is up to the vessel with radar to
use that information to avoid a collision. This makes the
radar-using vessel a defacto give-way vessel where as
a small sailboat without radar can simply stand-on.

S.Simon




"Shen44" wrote in message ...
So, I'm wondering... For coastal sailing in LIS and very occasional forays to
open ocean points north of there, do I need anything more than Furuno's model
1623?

Joey

Need: If you're sailing in areas where you are doing night time or occasional
sailing in fog, you could make points for and against radar.
Certainly, radar can make things easier.

Afford: You need to look at many things here, not the least of which, is your
wallet, but you also need to know what you can afford to put on your boat,
considering space for components and power requirements, coupled with your own
comfort level of viewing and using the unit .... you may end up being able to
go high end, or have to settle for low end .... only you can say.
Once you decide on a set (if you're thinking about it, you'll probably end up
getting it), keep in mind that the installation, to suit your needs or
financial requirements, is only the beginning ..... now you need to learn how
to use it.
My quess? 90% of those with small boat radar, get a maximum of 50% of the
capabilities/ advantages, that a radar can give.
Between not knowing how to tune for conditions, not being able to interpret the
display, not understanding relative motion and plotting, and thinking that
since they have radar, they are now safe, a high percentage of those with
radar, are more dangerous, now, than when they didn't have radar.
It's a great tool, but you need to understand it and know how to use it .... if
you don't, it's a waste of money.

Shen

Subject: Which Radar, Redux
From: "Simple Simon"

Another example of why we consider Neal to be the Southern member of the "Booby
Twins" ... Bobsprit, being the Northern

Another thing to consider as well. According to the COLREGS
any vessel that has operational radar installed is required to
use it at all times when underway - even with unlimited
visibility. Do you really want to be washed with microwaves
the whole time you're sailing?

G Although I might agree with the technical accuracy of this statement .....
get real, neal.


Then there's the COLREG requirement that in restricted vis.
if you have radar you must plot and ascertain the course of
all traffic you see on the screen. This is a lot of work and
very difficult on a small sailboat that is being tossed around
by any seas and wakes that may be evident.

For someone, such as yourself, with zero radar experience, the above could be
true. Actually, plotting is quite simple and easily accomplished ..... and, as
per usual, in the real world, there's plotting, and there's plotting.....

Once you do
get the coursed plotted it is up to the vessel with radar to
use that information to avoid a collision. This makes the
radar-using vessel a defacto give-way vessel where as
a small sailboat without radar can simply stand-on.

ROFLMAO ....still trying the BS, I see.
HEY, Joey !! Never, I repeat, NEVER, trust any statement, regarding the Rules,
posted by Neal.


Shen

So you admit that anybody who reads your posts for five months will conclude
that you are an idiot who cannot sail???

Bob, how can you be SO dumb?

Poor Donal misses the irony even in his own posts. Donal, where exactly did I
make two passes before entering? Was it Port Jeff?
Duh!

RB

I don't agree with RB that its easy to avoid ferries because their course is
predictable.

There are no such ferries on the LIS. The only risk would be the party fishing
boats, but they also have a pretty tight zone of operation.

RB

I differ with Neal on this there may be some scatter on the deck of your
vessel but the main thrust of radar is focused much in the way light is with
a trouble lamp.

It goes out where it is pointed.
Unless you are in the bonsuns chair stairing into the horn!!
Then you will start to drip like a good humor in July!!
Holding the colregs up as some sort of disadvantage..... I believe the one
to avoid trouble first is the best of Captains.... The one taking liberty
because he/she can or is too cheap, will be an ex-scoundrel.... under the
ferry someday!!

The best way I believe is to set a safe perimeter on your radar to give
yourself enough time to manuver and plot around most obsticles. Plot stuff
that is pertinant in your field of interest.
Stay away from other boats and you dont need to plot!

Neal do you still have the 27 foot coronado?

Dr Strangelove


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Another thing to consider as well. According to the COLREGS
any vessel that has operational radar installed is required to
use it at all times when underway - even with unlimited
visibility. Do you really want to be washed with microwaves
the whole time you're sailing?

Then there's the COLREG requirement that in restricted vis.
if you have radar you must plot and ascertain the course of
all traffic you see on the screen. This is a lot of work and
very difficult on a small sailboat that is being tossed around
by any seas and wakes that may be evident. Once you do
get the coursed plotted it is up to the vessel with radar to
use that information to avoid a collision. This makes the
radar-using vessel a defacto give-way vessel where as
a small sailboat without radar can simply stand-on.

S.Simon




"Shen44" wrote in message
...
So, I'm wondering... For coastal sailing in LIS and very occasional
forays to
open ocean points north of there, do I need anything more than Furuno's
model
1623?

Joey

Need: If you're sailing in areas where you are doing night time or
occasional
sailing in fog, you could make points for and against radar.
Certainly, radar can make things easier.

Afford: You need to look at many things here, not the least of which, is
your
wallet, but you also need to know what you can afford to put on your
boat,
considering space for components and power requirements, coupled with
your own
comfort level of viewing and using the unit .... you may end up being
able to
go high end, or have to settle for low end .... only you can say.
Once you decide on a set (if you're thinking about it, you'll probably
end up
getting it), keep in mind that the installation, to suit your needs or
financial requirements, is only the beginning ..... now you need to
learn how
to use it.
My quess? 90% of those with small boat radar, get a maximum of 50% of
the
capabilities/ advantages, that a radar can give.
Between not knowing how to tune for conditions, not being able to
interpret the
display, not understanding relative motion and plotting, and thinking
that
since they have radar, they are now safe, a high percentage of those
with
radar, are more dangerous, now, than when they didn't have radar.
It's a great tool, but you need to understand it and know how to use it
..... if
you don't, it's a waste of money.

Shen

On 18 Nov 2003, (Bobsprit) wrote:

I don't agree with RB that its easy to avoid
ferries because their course is predictable.

There are no such ferries on the LIS.

There are, in fact, several high-speed commuting ferries regularly
operating on the L.I. side of the sound (including comparatively near
where this "Bobsprit" fellow claims to sail regularly - e.g., out of
Hempstead harbor), although nowhere near as many as in Boston harbor
or in N.Y.C. harbor.

The only risk would be the party fishing
boats, but they also have a pretty tight
zone of operation.

This is true, if one defines as "pretty tight" the area bounded on the
easterly/southerly side by the "L.I." part of that sound and, on the
northerly/westerly side, by Bronx/Westchester and Connecticut/R.I.
(and, for the party boats operating out of, say, City Island and New
Rochelle, mostly south of Stamford, Ct.).

It is true, as the above and others have said earlier, that fog in
those parts of the L.I. Sound that interferes substantially with
line-of-sight boating is comparatively very unusaul and that (at least
during daylight hours) radar rarely is needed in those areas (or in
most other places on that sound).

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
So you admit that anybody who reads your posts for five months will
conclude
that you are an idiot who cannot sail???

Bob, how can you be SO dumb?

Poor Donal misses the irony even in his own posts. Donal, where exactly
did I
make two passes before entering? Was it Port Jeff?
Duh!

Once again Bob thinks that we cannot see him running across the pitch with a
goalpost under each arm! Put the goalposts back, Bob!

We are talking about the fact that nobody is surprised that a newbie can so
accurately sum you up after such a short time. IIRC, he correctly
identified you as an idiot who knows nothing about sailing. You didn't seem
surprised at his assessment.



Regards


Donal
--

There are, in fact, several high-speed commuting ferries regularly
operating on the L.I. side of the sound

Yes, notably the one that crosses over from Port Jeff, very fast that one.
Still, easily avoided due to it's fairly specific area of operation. No radar
needed on the LIS.
Period.

RB

That ferry might be approaching you from ahead, or from behind.
Those white ferries blend in pretty well, even in moderate fog or
drizzle conditions.

Ummmm...I don't know how to break this to you, but there are TWO ferries
working Port Jeff. More proof that you're a fraud. At least you got the color
right.

RB

What a dope! The PJ ferry is not even remotely considered a high speed
ferry!

Right, it's a "low speed" ferry. In fact I passed it easily in light air.
Dummy!

Bwahahahahaha!

RB