http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

You can see what a staunch supporter of the military GW is, from a distance,
that is.

John Cairns

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:48:02 -0500, "John Cairns"
wrote:

http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

You can see what a staunch supporter of the military GW is, from a
distance, that is.

John Cairns


It's a good sign for Bush when you have to use made-up stuff to
criticize him. You should be able to find some TRUE stuff. He's not
perfect, but he was never AWOL either.

two wheels


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=8gW0
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Actually, he was.

"two wheels" wrote in message
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:48:02 -0500, "John Cairns"
wrote:

http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

You can see what a staunch supporter of the military GW is, from a
distance, that is.

John Cairns


It's a good sign for Bush when you have to use made-up stuff to
criticize him. You should be able to find some TRUE stuff. He's not
perfect, but he was never AWOL either.

two wheels


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Zfb9cubEN+gN97X5rXovyvcD
=8gW0
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 20:52:17 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Actually, he was.


For the third or fourth time, here's the research done by professional
reporters, and not just extrapolated BS from scraps of irrelevant data
by some Bush-hating morons:

George magazine is no longer around, but this is from a contemporaneous
cut and paste of the online version of the mag:

http://tinyurl.com/x221

- From an Oct. 2000 issue of George Magazine:
================================================== ==

The Real Military Record of George W. Bush: Not Heroic, but Not AWOL,
Either

By Peter Keating and Karthik Thyagarajan

For more than a year, controversy about George W. Bush's Air
National Guard record has bubbled through the press. Interest in the
topic has spiked in recent days, as at least two websites have
launched stories essentially calling Bush AWOL in 1972 and 1973. For
example, in "Finally, the Truth about Bush's Military Record" on
TomPaine.com, Marty Heldt writes, "Bush's long absence from the
records comes to an end one week after he failed to comply with an
order to attend 'Annual Active Duty Training' starting at the end of
May 1973... Nothing indicates in the records that he ever made up
the time he missed."

And in Bush's Military Record Reveals Grounding and Absence
for Two Full Years" on Democrats.com, Robert A. Rogers states: "Bush
never actually reported in person for the last two years of his
service - in direct violation of two separate written orders."

Neither is correct. It's time to set the record straight. The
following analysis, which relies on National Guard documents,
extensive interviews with military officials and previously
unpublished evidence of Bush's whereabouts in the summer and fall of
1972, is the first full chronology of Bush's military record. Its
basic conclusions: Bush may have received favorable treatment to get
into the Guard, served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got
an expedited discharge, but he did accumulate the days of service
required of him for his ultimate honorable discharge.

The younger Bush fulfilled two years of active duty and
completed pilot training in June 1970. During that time and in the
two years that followed, Bush flew the F-102, an interceptor jet
equipped with heat-seeking missiles that could shoot down enemy
planes. His commanding officers and peers regarded Bush as a
competent pilot and enthusiastic Guard member. In March 1970, the
Texas Air National Guard issued a press release trumpeting his
performance: "Lt. Bush recently became the first Houston pilot to be
trained by the 147th [Fighter Group] and to solo in the F-102... Lt.
Bush said his father was just as excited and enthusiastic about his
solo flight as he was." In Bush's evaluation for the period May 1,
1971 through April 30, 1972, then-Colonel Bobby Hodges, his
commanding officer, stated, "I have personally observed his
participation, and without exception, his performance has been
noteworthy." In the spring of 1972, however, National Guard records
show a sudden dropoff in Bush's military activity.

Though trained as a pilot at considerable government expense,
Bush stopped flying in April 1972 and never flew for the Guard
again.

Around that time, Bush decided to go to work for Winton "Red"
Blount, a Republican running for the U.S. Senate, in Alabama.
Documents from Ellington Air Force Base in Houston state that Bush
"cleared this base on 15 May." Shortly afterward, he applied for
assignment to the 9921st Air Reserve Squadron in Montgomery,
Ala., a unit that required minimal duty and offered no pay. Although
that unit's commander was willing to welcome him, on May 31
higher-ups at the Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver rejected
Bush's request to serve at the 9921st, because it did not offer duty
equivalent to his service in Texas. "[A]n obligated Reservist [in
this case, Bush] can be assigned to a specific Ready Reserve
position only," noted the disapproval memo, a copy of which was sent
to Bush. "Therefore, he is ineligible for assignment to an Air
Reserve Squadron."

Despite the military's decision, Bush moved to Alabama. Records
obtained by Georegemag.com show that the Blount Senate campaign paid
Bush about $900 a month from mid-May through mid-November to do
advance work and organize events. Neither Bush's annual evaluation
nor the Air National Guard's overall chronological listing of his
service contain any evidence that he performed Guard duties during
that summer.

On or around his 27th birthday, July 6, 1972, Bush did not take
his required annual medical exam at his Texas unit. As a
consequence, he was suspended from flying military jets. Bush
spokesperson Dan Bartlett told Georgemag.com: "You take that exam
because you are flying, and he was not flying. The paperwork uses
the phrase 'suspended from flying,' but he had no intention of
flying at that time."

Some media reports have speculated that Bush took and failed
his physical, or that he was grounded as a result of substance
abuse. Bush's vagueness on the subject of his past drug use has only
abetted such rumors. Bush's commanding officer in Texas, however,
denies the charges. "His flying status was suspended because he
didn't take the exam, not because he couldn't pass," says Hodges.
Asked whether Bush was ever disciplined for using alcohol or illicit
drugs, Hodges replied: "No."

On September 5, Bush wrote to then-Colonel Jerry Killian at his
original unit in Texas, requesting permission to serve with the
187th Tactical Reconnaisance Group, another Alabama-based unit.
"This duty would be for the months of September, October, and
November," wrote Bush.

This time his request was approved: 10 days later, the Alabama
Guard ordered Bush to report to then-Lieutenant Colonel William
Turnipseed at Dannelly Air Force Base in Montgomery on October 7th
and 8th. The memo noted that "Lieutenant Bush will not be able to
satisfy his flight requirements with our group," since the 187th did
not fly F-102s.

The question of whether Bush ever actually served in Alabama has
become an issue in the 2000 campaign-the Air Force Times recently
reported that "the GOP is trying to locate people who served with
Bush in late 1972 ... to see if they can confirm that Bush briefly
served with the Alabama Air National Guard." Bush's records contain
no evidence that he reported to Dannelly in October. And in
telephone interviews with Georgemag.com, neither Turnipseed, Bush's
commanding officer, nor Kenneth Lott, then chief personnel officer
of the 187th, remembered Bush serving with their unit. "I don't
think he showed up," Turnipseed said.

Bush maintains he did serve in Alabama. "Governor Bush
specifically remembers pulling duty in Montgomery and respectfully
disagrees with the Colonel," says Bartlett. "There's no question it
wasn't memorable, because he wasn't flying." In July, the Decatur
Daily reported that two former Blount campaign workers recall Bush
serving in the Alabama Air National Guard in the fall of 1972. "I
remember he actually came back to Alabama for about a week to 10
days several weeks after the campaign was over to complete his Guard
duty in the state," stated Emily Martin, a former Alabama resident
who said she dated Bush during the time he spent in that state.

After the 1972 election, which Blount lost, Bush moved back to
Houston and subsequently began working at P.U.L.L., a community
service center for disadvantaged youths. This period of time has
also become a matter of controversy, because even though Bush's
original unit had been placed on alert duty in October 1972, his
superiors in Texas lost track of his whereabouts. On May 2, 1973,
Bush's squadron leader in the 147th, Lieutenant Colonel William
Harris, Jr. wrote: "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit" for
the past year. Harris incorrectly assumed that Bush had been
reporting for duty in Alabama all along. He wrote that Bush "has
been performing equivalent training in a non-flying status with the
187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama." Base commander
Hodges says of Bush's return to Texas: "All I remember is someone
saying he came back and made up his days."

Two documents obtained by Georgemag.com indicate that Bush did
make up the time he missed during the summer and autumn of 1972. One
is an April 23, 1973 order for Bush to report to annual active duty
training the following month; the other is an Air National Guard
statement of days served by Bush that is torn and undated but
contains entries that correspond to the first. Taken together, they
appear to establish that Bush reported for duty on nine occasions
between November 29, 1972-when he could have been in Alabama-and May
24, 1973. Bush still wasn't flying, but over this span, he did earn
nine points of National Guard service from days of active duty and
32 from inactive duty. When added to the 15 so-called "gratuitous"
points that every member of the Guard got per year, Bush accumulated
56 points, more than the 50 that he needed by the end of May 1973 to
maintain his standing as a Guardsman.

On May 1, Bush was ordered to report for further active duty
training, and documents show that he proceeded to cram in another 10
sessions over the next two months. Ultimately, he racked up 19
active duty points of service and 16 inactive duty points by July
30-which, added to his 15 gratuitous points, achieved the requisite
total of 50 for the year ending in May 1974.

On October 1, 1973, First Lieutenant George W. Bush received an
early honorable discharge so that he could attend Harvard Business
School. He was credited with five years, four months and five days
of service toward his six-year service obligation.

================================================== ==

tw


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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Sorry, but he *was* AWOL. Thanks for the link though.

"two wheels" wrote in message
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 20:52:17 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Actually, he was.


For the third or fourth time, here's the research done by professional
reporters, and not just extrapolated BS from scraps of irrelevant data
by some Bush-hating morons:

George magazine is no longer around, but this is from a contemporaneous
cut and paste of the online version of the mag:

http://tinyurl.com/x221

- From an Oct. 2000 issue of George Magazine:
================================================== ==

The Real Military Record of George W. Bush: Not Heroic, but Not AWOL,
Either

By Peter Keating and Karthik Thyagarajan

For more than a year, controversy about George W. Bush's Air
National Guard record has bubbled through the press. Interest in the
topic has spiked in recent days, as at least two websites have
launched stories essentially calling Bush AWOL in 1972 and 1973. For
example, in "Finally, the Truth about Bush's Military Record" on
TomPaine.com, Marty Heldt writes, "Bush's long absence from the
records comes to an end one week after he failed to comply with an
order to attend 'Annual Active Duty Training' starting at the end of
May 1973... Nothing indicates in the records that he ever made up
the time he missed."

And in Bush's Military Record Reveals Grounding and Absence
for Two Full Years" on Democrats.com, Robert A. Rogers states: "Bush
never actually reported in person for the last two years of his
service - in direct violation of two separate written orders."

Neither is correct. It's time to set the record straight. The
following analysis, which relies on National Guard documents,
extensive interviews with military officials and previously
unpublished evidence of Bush's whereabouts in the summer and fall of
1972, is the first full chronology of Bush's military record. Its
basic conclusions: Bush may have received favorable treatment to get
into the Guard, served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got
an expedited discharge, but he did accumulate the days of service
required of him for his ultimate honorable discharge.

The younger Bush fulfilled two years of active duty and
completed pilot training in June 1970. During that time and in the
two years that followed, Bush flew the F-102, an interceptor jet
equipped with heat-seeking missiles that could shoot down enemy
planes. His commanding officers and peers regarded Bush as a
competent pilot and enthusiastic Guard member. In March 1970, the
Texas Air National Guard issued a press release trumpeting his
performance: "Lt. Bush recently became the first Houston pilot to be
trained by the 147th [Fighter Group] and to solo in the F-102... Lt.
Bush said his father was just as excited and enthusiastic about his
solo flight as he was." In Bush's evaluation for the period May 1,
1971 through April 30, 1972, then-Colonel Bobby Hodges, his
commanding officer, stated, "I have personally observed his
participation, and without exception, his performance has been
noteworthy." In the spring of 1972, however, National Guard records
show a sudden dropoff in Bush's military activity.

Though trained as a pilot at considerable government expense,
Bush stopped flying in April 1972 and never flew for the Guard
again.

Around that time, Bush decided to go to work for Winton "Red"
Blount, a Republican running for the U.S. Senate, in Alabama.
Documents from Ellington Air Force Base in Houston state that Bush
"cleared this base on 15 May." Shortly afterward, he applied for
assignment to the 9921st Air Reserve Squadron in Montgomery,
Ala., a unit that required minimal duty and offered no pay. Although
that unit's commander was willing to welcome him, on May 31
higher-ups at the Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver rejected
Bush's request to serve at the 9921st, because it did not offer duty
equivalent to his service in Texas. "[A]n obligated Reservist [in
this case, Bush] can be assigned to a specific Ready Reserve
position only," noted the disapproval memo, a copy of which was sent
to Bush. "Therefore, he is ineligible for assignment to an Air
Reserve Squadron."

Despite the military's decision, Bush moved to Alabama. Records
obtained by Georegemag.com show that the Blount Senate campaign paid
Bush about $900 a month from mid-May through mid-November to do
advance work and organize events. Neither Bush's annual evaluation
nor the Air National Guard's overall chronological listing of his
service contain any evidence that he performed Guard duties during
that summer.

On or around his 27th birthday, July 6, 1972, Bush did not take
his required annual medical exam at his Texas unit. As a
consequence, he was suspended from flying military jets. Bush
spokesperson Dan Bartlett told Georgemag.com: "You take that exam
because you are flying, and he was not flying. The paperwork uses
the phrase 'suspended from flying,' but he had no intention of
flying at that time."

Some media reports have speculated that Bush took and failed
his physical, or that he was grounded as a result of substance
abuse. Bush's vagueness on the subject of his past drug use has only
abetted such rumors. Bush's commanding officer in Texas, however,
denies the charges. "His flying status was suspended because he
didn't take the exam, not because he couldn't pass," says Hodges.
Asked whether Bush was ever disciplined for using alcohol or illicit
drugs, Hodges replied: "No."

On September 5, Bush wrote to then-Colonel Jerry Killian at his
original unit in Texas, requesting permission to serve with the
187th Tactical Reconnaisance Group, another Alabama-based unit.
"This duty would be for the months of September, October, and
November," wrote Bush.

This time his request was approved: 10 days later, the Alabama
Guard ordered Bush to report to then-Lieutenant Colonel William
Turnipseed at Dannelly Air Force Base in Montgomery on October 7th
and 8th. The memo noted that "Lieutenant Bush will not be able to
satisfy his flight requirements with our group," since the 187th did
not fly F-102s.

The question of whether Bush ever actually served in Alabama has
become an issue in the 2000 campaign-the Air Force Times recently
reported that "the GOP is trying to locate people who served with
Bush in late 1972 ... to see if they can confirm that Bush briefly
served with the Alabama Air National Guard." Bush's records contain
no evidence that he reported to Dannelly in October. And in
telephone interviews with Georgemag.com, neither Turnipseed, Bush's
commanding officer, nor Kenneth Lott, then chief personnel officer
of the 187th, remembered Bush serving with their unit. "I don't
think he showed up," Turnipseed said.

Bush maintains he did serve in Alabama. "Governor Bush
specifically remembers pulling duty in Montgomery and respectfully
disagrees with the Colonel," says Bartlett. "There's no question it
wasn't memorable, because he wasn't flying." In July, the Decatur
Daily reported that two former Blount campaign workers recall Bush
serving in the Alabama Air National Guard in the fall of 1972. "I
remember he actually came back to Alabama for about a week to 10
days several weeks after the campaign was over to complete his Guard
duty in the state," stated Emily Martin, a former Alabama resident
who said she dated Bush during the time he spent in that state.

After the 1972 election, which Blount lost, Bush moved back to
Houston and subsequently began working at P.U.L.L., a community
service center for disadvantaged youths. This period of time has
also become a matter of controversy, because even though Bush's
original unit had been placed on alert duty in October 1972, his
superiors in Texas lost track of his whereabouts. On May 2, 1973,
Bush's squadron leader in the 147th, Lieutenant Colonel William
Harris, Jr. wrote: "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit" for
the past year. Harris incorrectly assumed that Bush had been
reporting for duty in Alabama all along. He wrote that Bush "has
been performing equivalent training in a non-flying status with the
187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama." Base commander
Hodges says of Bush's return to Texas: "All I remember is someone
saying he came back and made up his days."

Two documents obtained by Georgemag.com indicate that Bush did
make up the time he missed during the summer and autumn of 1972. One
is an April 23, 1973 order for Bush to report to annual active duty
training the following month; the other is an Air National Guard
statement of days served by Bush that is torn and undated but
contains entries that correspond to the first. Taken together, they
appear to establish that Bush reported for duty on nine occasions
between November 29, 1972-when he could have been in Alabama-and May
24, 1973. Bush still wasn't flying, but over this span, he did earn
nine points of National Guard service from days of active duty and
32 from inactive duty. When added to the 15 so-called "gratuitous"
points that every member of the Guard got per year, Bush accumulated
56 points, more than the 50 that he needed by the end of May 1973 to
maintain his standing as a Guardsman.

On May 1, Bush was ordered to report for further active duty
training, and documents show that he proceeded to cram in another 10
sessions over the next two months. Ultimately, he racked up 19
active duty points of service and 16 inactive duty points by July
30-which, added to his 15 gratuitous points, achieved the requisite
total of 50 for the year ending in May 1974.

On October 1, 1973, First Lieutenant George W. Bush received an
early honorable discharge so that he could attend Harvard Business
School. He was credited with five years, four months and five days
of service toward his six-year service obligation.

================================================== ==

tw


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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Not if the truth matters, he wasn't. New York Times did the research
too. There is no there there. Someone is either AWOL, or they're not.
It's not a subjective thing. It's like having a conviction for
burglary. Either you were convicted or you weren't.

two wheels


On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:57:37 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Sorry, but he *was* AWOL. Thanks for the link though.

"two wheels" wrote in message
.. .
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 20:52:17 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Actually, he was.


For the third or fourth time, here's the research done by
professional reporters, and not just extrapolated BS from scraps of
irrelevant data by some Bush-hating morons:

George magazine is no longer around, but this is from a
contemporaneous cut and paste of the online version of the mag:

http://tinyurl.com/x221

- From an Oct. 2000 issue of George Magazine:
================================================== ==

The Real Military Record of George W. Bush: Not Heroic, but Not
AWOL, Either

By Peter Keating and Karthik Thyagarajan

For more than a year, controversy about George W. Bush's Air
National Guard record has bubbled through the press. Interest in the
topic has spiked in recent days, as at least two websites have
launched stories essentially calling Bush AWOL in 1972 and 1973. For
example, in "Finally, the Truth about Bush's Military Record" on
TomPaine.com, Marty Heldt writes, "Bush's long absence from the
records comes to an end one week after he failed to comply with an
order to attend 'Annual Active Duty Training' starting at the end of
May 1973... Nothing indicates in the records that he ever made up
the time he missed."

And in Bush's Military Record Reveals Grounding and Absence
for Two Full Years" on Democrats.com, Robert A. Rogers states: "Bush
never actually reported in person for the last two years of his
service - in direct violation of two separate written orders."

Neither is correct. It's time to set the record straight. The
following analysis, which relies on National Guard documents,
extensive interviews with military officials and previously
unpublished evidence of Bush's whereabouts in the summer and fall of
1972, is the first full chronology of Bush's military record. Its
basic conclusions: Bush may have received favorable treatment to get
into the Guard, served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got
an expedited discharge, but he did accumulate the days of service
required of him for his ultimate honorable discharge.

The younger Bush fulfilled two years of active duty and
completed pilot training in June 1970. During that time and in the
two years that followed, Bush flew the F-102, an interceptor jet
equipped with heat-seeking missiles that could shoot down enemy
planes. His commanding officers and peers regarded Bush as a
competent pilot and enthusiastic Guard member. In March 1970, the
Texas Air National Guard issued a press release trumpeting his
performance: "Lt. Bush recently became the first Houston pilot to be
trained by the 147th [Fighter Group] and to solo in the F-102... Lt.
Bush said his father was just as excited and enthusiastic about his
solo flight as he was." In Bush's evaluation for the period May 1,
1971 through April 30, 1972, then-Colonel Bobby Hodges, his
commanding officer, stated, "I have personally observed his
participation, and without exception, his performance has been
noteworthy." In the spring of 1972, however, National Guard records
show a sudden dropoff in Bush's military activity.

Though trained as a pilot at considerable government expense,
Bush stopped flying in April 1972 and never flew for the Guard
again.

Around that time, Bush decided to go to work for Winton "Red"
Blount, a Republican running for the U.S. Senate, in Alabama.
Documents from Ellington Air Force Base in Houston state that Bush
"cleared this base on 15 May." Shortly afterward, he applied for
assignment to the 9921st Air Reserve Squadron in Montgomery,
Ala., a unit that required minimal duty and offered no pay. Although
that unit's commander was willing to welcome him, on May 31
higher-ups at the Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver rejected
Bush's request to serve at the 9921st, because it did not offer duty
equivalent to his service in Texas. "[A]n obligated Reservist [in
this case, Bush] can be assigned to a specific Ready Reserve
position only," noted the disapproval memo, a copy of which was sent
to Bush. "Therefore, he is ineligible for assignment to an Air
Reserve Squadron."

Despite the military's decision, Bush moved to Alabama. Records
obtained by Georegemag.com show that the Blount Senate campaign paid
Bush about $900 a month from mid-May through mid-November to do
advance work and organize events. Neither Bush's annual evaluation
nor the Air National Guard's overall chronological listing of his
service contain any evidence that he performed Guard duties during
that summer.

On or around his 27th birthday, July 6, 1972, Bush did not take
his required annual medical exam at his Texas unit. As a
consequence, he was suspended from flying military jets. Bush
spokesperson Dan Bartlett told Georgemag.com: "You take that exam
because you are flying, and he was not flying. The paperwork uses
the phrase 'suspended from flying,' but he had no intention of
flying at that time."

Some media reports have speculated that Bush took and failed
his physical, or that he was grounded as a result of substance
abuse. Bush's vagueness on the subject of his past drug use has only
abetted such rumors. Bush's commanding officer in Texas, however,
denies the charges. "His flying status was suspended because he
didn't take the exam, not because he couldn't pass," says Hodges.
Asked whether Bush was ever disciplined for using alcohol or illicit
drugs, Hodges replied: "No."

On September 5, Bush wrote to then-Colonel Jerry Killian at his
original unit in Texas, requesting permission to serve with the
187th Tactical Reconnaisance Group, another Alabama-based unit.
"This duty would be for the months of September, October, and
November," wrote Bush.

This time his request was approved: 10 days later, the Alabama
Guard ordered Bush to report to then-Lieutenant Colonel William
Turnipseed at Dannelly Air Force Base in Montgomery on October 7th
and 8th. The memo noted that "Lieutenant Bush will not be able to
satisfy his flight requirements with our group," since the 187th did
not fly F-102s.

The question of whether Bush ever actually served in Alabama has
become an issue in the 2000 campaign-the Air Force Times recently
reported that "the GOP is trying to locate people who served with
Bush in late 1972 ... to see if they can confirm that Bush briefly
served with the Alabama Air National Guard." Bush's records contain
no evidence that he reported to Dannelly in October. And in
telephone interviews with Georgemag.com, neither Turnipseed, Bush's
commanding officer, nor Kenneth Lott, then chief personnel officer
of the 187th, remembered Bush serving with their unit. "I don't
think he showed up," Turnipseed said.

Bush maintains he did serve in Alabama. "Governor Bush
specifically remembers pulling duty in Montgomery and respectfully
disagrees with the Colonel," says Bartlett. "There's no question it
wasn't memorable, because he wasn't flying." In July, the Decatur
Daily reported that two former Blount campaign workers recall Bush
serving in the Alabama Air National Guard in the fall of 1972. "I
remember he actually came back to Alabama for about a week to 10
days several weeks after the campaign was over to complete his Guard
duty in the state," stated Emily Martin, a former Alabama resident
who said she dated Bush during the time he spent in that state.

After the 1972 election, which Blount lost, Bush moved back to
Houston and subsequently began working at P.U.L.L., a community
service center for disadvantaged youths. This period of time has
also become a matter of controversy, because even though Bush's
original unit had been placed on alert duty in October 1972, his
superiors in Texas lost track of his whereabouts. On May 2, 1973,
Bush's squadron leader in the 147th, Lieutenant Colonel William
Harris, Jr. wrote: "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit" for
the past year. Harris incorrectly assumed that Bush had been
reporting for duty in Alabama all along. He wrote that Bush "has
been performing equivalent training in a non-flying status with the
187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama." Base commander
Hodges says of Bush's return to Texas: "All I remember is someone
saying he came back and made up his days."

Two documents obtained by Georgemag.com indicate that Bush did
make up the time he missed during the summer and autumn of 1972. One
is an April 23, 1973 order for Bush to report to annual active duty
training the following month; the other is an Air National Guard
statement of days served by Bush that is torn and undated but
contains entries that correspond to the first. Taken together, they
appear to establish that Bush reported for duty on nine occasions
between November 29, 1972-when he could have been in Alabama-and May
24, 1973. Bush still wasn't flying, but over this span, he did earn
nine points of National Guard service from days of active duty and
32 from inactive duty. When added to the 15 so-called "gratuitous"
points that every member of the Guard got per year, Bush accumulated
56 points, more than the 50 that he needed by the end of May 1973 to
maintain his standing as a Guardsman.

On May 1, Bush was ordered to report for further active duty
training, and documents show that he proceeded to cram in another 10
sessions over the next two months. Ultimately, he racked up 19
active duty points of service and 16 inactive duty points by July
30-which, added to his 15 gratuitous points, achieved the requisite
total of 50 for the year ending in May 1974.

On October 1, 1973, First Lieutenant George W. Bush received an
early honorable discharge so that he could attend Harvard Business
School. He was credited with five years, four months and five days
of service toward his six-year service obligation.

================================================== ==

tw

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He was awol. It's a fact. Sorry, but you must be influenced by the
right wing press.

"two wheels" wrote in message
news
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Not if the truth matters, he wasn't. New York Times did the research
too. There is no there there. Someone is either AWOL, or they're not.
It's not a subjective thing. It's like having a conviction for
burglary. Either you were convicted or you weren't.

two wheels


On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:57:37 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Sorry, but he *was* AWOL. Thanks for the link though.

"two wheels" wrote in message
.. .
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 20:52:17 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Actually, he was.


For the third or fourth time, here's the research done by
professional reporters, and not just extrapolated BS from scraps of
irrelevant data by some Bush-hating morons:

George magazine is no longer around, but this is from a
contemporaneous cut and paste of the online version of the mag:

http://tinyurl.com/x221

- From an Oct. 2000 issue of George Magazine:
================================================== ==

The Real Military Record of George W. Bush: Not Heroic, but Not
AWOL, Either

By Peter Keating and Karthik Thyagarajan

For more than a year, controversy about George W. Bush's Air
National Guard record has bubbled through the press. Interest in the
topic has spiked in recent days, as at least two websites have
launched stories essentially calling Bush AWOL in 1972 and 1973. For
example, in "Finally, the Truth about Bush's Military Record" on
TomPaine.com, Marty Heldt writes, "Bush's long absence from the
records comes to an end one week after he failed to comply with an
order to attend 'Annual Active Duty Training' starting at the end of
May 1973... Nothing indicates in the records that he ever made up
the time he missed."

And in Bush's Military Record Reveals Grounding and Absence
for Two Full Years" on Democrats.com, Robert A. Rogers states: "Bush
never actually reported in person for the last two years of his
service - in direct violation of two separate written orders."

Neither is correct. It's time to set the record straight. The
following analysis, which relies on National Guard documents,
extensive interviews with military officials and previously
unpublished evidence of Bush's whereabouts in the summer and fall of
1972, is the first full chronology of Bush's military record. Its
basic conclusions: Bush may have received favorable treatment to get
into the Guard, served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got
an expedited discharge, but he did accumulate the days of service
required of him for his ultimate honorable discharge.

The younger Bush fulfilled two years of active duty and
completed pilot training in June 1970. During that time and in the
two years that followed, Bush flew the F-102, an interceptor jet
equipped with heat-seeking missiles that could shoot down enemy
planes. His commanding officers and peers regarded Bush as a
competent pilot and enthusiastic Guard member. In March 1970, the
Texas Air National Guard issued a press release trumpeting his
performance: "Lt. Bush recently became the first Houston pilot to be
trained by the 147th [Fighter Group] and to solo in the F-102... Lt.
Bush said his father was just as excited and enthusiastic about his
solo flight as he was." In Bush's evaluation for the period May 1,
1971 through April 30, 1972, then-Colonel Bobby Hodges, his
commanding officer, stated, "I have personally observed his
participation, and without exception, his performance has been
noteworthy." In the spring of 1972, however, National Guard records
show a sudden dropoff in Bush's military activity.

Though trained as a pilot at considerable government expense,
Bush stopped flying in April 1972 and never flew for the Guard
again.

Around that time, Bush decided to go to work for Winton "Red"
Blount, a Republican running for the U.S. Senate, in Alabama.
Documents from Ellington Air Force Base in Houston state that Bush
"cleared this base on 15 May." Shortly afterward, he applied for
assignment to the 9921st Air Reserve Squadron in Montgomery,
Ala., a unit that required minimal duty and offered no pay. Although
that unit's commander was willing to welcome him, on May 31
higher-ups at the Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver rejected
Bush's request to serve at the 9921st, because it did not offer duty
equivalent to his service in Texas. "[A]n obligated Reservist [in
this case, Bush] can be assigned to a specific Ready Reserve
position only," noted the disapproval memo, a copy of which was sent
to Bush. "Therefore, he is ineligible for assignment to an Air
Reserve Squadron."

Despite the military's decision, Bush moved to Alabama. Records
obtained by Georegemag.com show that the Blount Senate campaign paid
Bush about $900 a month from mid-May through mid-November to do
advance work and organize events. Neither Bush's annual evaluation
nor the Air National Guard's overall chronological listing of his
service contain any evidence that he performed Guard duties during
that summer.

On or around his 27th birthday, July 6, 1972, Bush did not take
his required annual medical exam at his Texas unit. As a
consequence, he was suspended from flying military jets. Bush
spokesperson Dan Bartlett told Georgemag.com: "You take that exam
because you are flying, and he was not flying. The paperwork uses
the phrase 'suspended from flying,' but he had no intention of
flying at that time."

Some media reports have speculated that Bush took and failed
his physical, or that he was grounded as a result of substance
abuse. Bush's vagueness on the subject of his past drug use has only
abetted such rumors. Bush's commanding officer in Texas, however,
denies the charges. "His flying status was suspended because he
didn't take the exam, not because he couldn't pass," says Hodges.
Asked whether Bush was ever disciplined for using alcohol or illicit
drugs, Hodges replied: "No."

On September 5, Bush wrote to then-Colonel Jerry Killian at his
original unit in Texas, requesting permission to serve with the
187th Tactical Reconnaisance Group, another Alabama-based unit.
"This duty would be for the months of September, October, and
November," wrote Bush.

This time his request was approved: 10 days later, the Alabama
Guard ordered Bush to report to then-Lieutenant Colonel William
Turnipseed at Dannelly Air Force Base in Montgomery on October 7th
and 8th. The memo noted that "Lieutenant Bush will not be able to
satisfy his flight requirements with our group," since the 187th did
not fly F-102s.

The question of whether Bush ever actually served in Alabama has
become an issue in the 2000 campaign-the Air Force Times recently
reported that "the GOP is trying to locate people who served with
Bush in late 1972 ... to see if they can confirm that Bush briefly
served with the Alabama Air National Guard." Bush's records contain
no evidence that he reported to Dannelly in October. And in
telephone interviews with Georgemag.com, neither Turnipseed, Bush's
commanding officer, nor Kenneth Lott, then chief personnel officer
of the 187th, remembered Bush serving with their unit. "I don't
think he showed up," Turnipseed said.

Bush maintains he did serve in Alabama. "Governor Bush
specifically remembers pulling duty in Montgomery and respectfully
disagrees with the Colonel," says Bartlett. "There's no question it
wasn't memorable, because he wasn't flying." In July, the Decatur
Daily reported that two former Blount campaign workers recall Bush
serving in the Alabama Air National Guard in the fall of 1972. "I
remember he actually came back to Alabama for about a week to 10
days several weeks after the campaign was over to complete his Guard
duty in the state," stated Emily Martin, a former Alabama resident
who said she dated Bush during the time he spent in that state.

After the 1972 election, which Blount lost, Bush moved back to
Houston and subsequently began working at P.U.L.L., a community
service center for disadvantaged youths. This period of time has
also become a matter of controversy, because even though Bush's
original unit had been placed on alert duty in October 1972, his
superiors in Texas lost track of his whereabouts. On May 2, 1973,
Bush's squadron leader in the 147th, Lieutenant Colonel William
Harris, Jr. wrote: "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit" for
the past year. Harris incorrectly assumed that Bush had been
reporting for duty in Alabama all along. He wrote that Bush "has
been performing equivalent training in a non-flying status with the
187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama." Base commander
Hodges says of Bush's return to Texas: "All I remember is someone
saying he came back and made up his days."

Two documents obtained by Georgemag.com indicate that Bush did
make up the time he missed during the summer and autumn of 1972. One
is an April 23, 1973 order for Bush to report to annual active duty
training the following month; the other is an Air National Guard
statement of days served by Bush that is torn and undated but
contains entries that correspond to the first. Taken together, they
appear to establish that Bush reported for duty on nine occasions
between November 29, 1972-when he could have been in Alabama-and May
24, 1973. Bush still wasn't flying, but over this span, he did earn
nine points of National Guard service from days of active duty and
32 from inactive duty. When added to the 15 so-called "gratuitous"
points that every member of the Guard got per year, Bush accumulated
56 points, more than the 50 that he needed by the end of May 1973 to
maintain his standing as a Guardsman.

On May 1, Bush was ordered to report for further active duty
training, and documents show that he proceeded to cram in another 10
sessions over the next two months. Ultimately, he racked up 19
active duty points of service and 16 inactive duty points by July
30-which, added to his 15 gratuitous points, achieved the requisite
total of 50 for the year ending in May 1974.

On October 1, 1973, First Lieutenant George W. Bush received an
early honorable discharge so that he could attend Harvard Business
School. He was credited with five years, four months and five days
of service toward his six-year service obligation.

================================================== ==

tw

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Hash: SHA1

A little remedial education:

A "fact" has to be true.

GW was never AWOL. If it's not in his military records, it didn't
happen. No superior of his (in a position to know) said that his
absences were without leave.

And, as for the flying:

They were about to "mothball" the F-102 Delta Dagger interceptor
that Bush had been trained on. It was obsolete. The F-102 was
designed to intercept Soviet bombers. So, if he wanted to continue
flying, he'd have to train on the new-generation replacement
jet--all over again. This was before simulators. Training took a
lot of tedious flight time and GW wasn't interested in flying any
more than he had to. He was lazy. That's his crime. Being in the
Air National Guard was not his dream job. Call it special treament,
but he was able to fill out his National Guard commitment and get
his honorable discharge with ground duty, and that's what he did.
Remember, the National Guard duty allows you to continue with your
civilian pursuits too. It's not 24/7 military service. GW did what
he was allowed to do, and therefore got in NO trouble for doing it.


two wheels


On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:51:42 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

He was awol. It's a fact. Sorry, but you must be influenced by the
right wing press.

"two wheels" wrote in
message
news
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Not if the truth matters, he wasn't. New York Times did the
research
too. There is no there there. Someone is either AWOL, or they're
not.
It's not a subjective thing. It's like having a conviction for
burglary. Either you were convicted or you weren't.

two wheels


On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:57:37 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Sorry, but he *was* AWOL. Thanks for the link though.

"two wheels" wrote in
message
.. .
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 20:52:17 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Actually, he was.


For the third or fourth time, here's the research done by
professional reporters, and not just extrapolated BS from
scraps of
irrelevant data by some Bush-hating morons:

George magazine is no longer around, but this is from a
contemporaneous cut and paste of the online version of the
mag:

http://tinyurl.com/x221

- From an Oct. 2000 issue of George Magazine:
================================================== ==

The Real Military Record of George W. Bush: Not Heroic, but
Not
AWOL, Either

By Peter Keating and Karthik Thyagarajan

For more than a year, controversy about George W. Bush's
Air
National Guard record has bubbled through the press. Interest
in the
topic has spiked in recent days, as at least two websites
have
launched stories essentially calling Bush AWOL in 1972 and
1973. For
example, in "Finally, the Truth about Bush's Military Record"
on
TomPaine.com, Marty Heldt writes, "Bush's long absence from
the
records comes to an end one week after he failed to comply
with an
order to attend 'Annual Active Duty Training' starting at the
end of
May 1973... Nothing indicates in the records that he ever
made up
the time he missed."

And in Bush's Military Record Reveals Grounding and
Absence
for Two Full Years" on Democrats.com, Robert A. Rogers
states: "Bush
never actually reported in person for the last two years of
his
service - in direct violation of two separate written
orders."

Neither is correct. It's time to set the record
straight. The
following analysis, which relies on National Guard documents,
extensive interviews with military officials and previously
unpublished evidence of Bush's whereabouts in the summer and
fall of
1972, is the first full chronology of Bush's military record.
Its
basic conclusions: Bush may have received favorable treatment
to get
into the Guard, served irregularly after the spring of 1972
and got
an expedited discharge, but he did accumulate the days of
service
required of him for his ultimate honorable discharge.

The younger Bush fulfilled two years of active duty and
completed pilot training in June 1970. During that time and
in the
two years that followed, Bush flew the F-102, an interceptor
jet
equipped with heat-seeking missiles that could shoot down
enemy
planes. His commanding officers and peers regarded Bush as a
competent pilot and enthusiastic Guard member. In March 1970,
the
Texas Air National Guard issued a press release trumpeting
his
performance: "Lt. Bush recently became the first Houston
pilot to be
trained by the 147th [Fighter Group] and to solo in the
F-102... Lt.
Bush said his father was just as excited and enthusiastic
about his
solo flight as he was." In Bush's evaluation for the period
May 1,
1971 through April 30, 1972, then-Colonel Bobby Hodges, his
commanding officer, stated, "I have personally observed his
participation, and without exception, his performance has
been
noteworthy." In the spring of 1972, however, National Guard
records
show a sudden dropoff in Bush's military activity.

Though trained as a pilot at considerable government
expense,
Bush stopped flying in April 1972 and never flew for the
Guard
again.

Around that time, Bush decided to go to work for Winton
"Red"
Blount, a Republican running for the U.S. Senate, in Alabama.
Documents from Ellington Air Force Base in Houston state that
Bush
"cleared this base on 15 May." Shortly afterward, he applied
for
assignment to the 9921st Air Reserve Squadron in
Montgomery,
Ala., a unit that required minimal duty and offered no pay.
Although
that unit's commander was willing to welcome him, on May 31
higher-ups at the Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver
rejected
Bush's request to serve at the 9921st, because it did not
offer duty
equivalent to his service in Texas. "[A]n obligated Reservist
[in
this case, Bush] can be assigned to a specific Ready Reserve
position only," noted the disapproval memo, a copy of which
was sent
to Bush. "Therefore, he is ineligible for assignment to an
Air
Reserve Squadron."

Despite the military's decision, Bush moved to Alabama.
Records
obtained by Georegemag.com show that the Blount Senate
campaign paid
Bush about $900 a month from mid-May through mid-November to
do
advance work and organize events. Neither Bush's annual
evaluation
nor the Air National Guard's overall chronological listing of
his
service contain any evidence that he performed Guard duties
during
that summer.

On or around his 27th birthday, July 6, 1972, Bush did
not take
his required annual medical exam at his Texas unit. As a
consequence, he was suspended from flying military jets. Bush
spokesperson Dan Bartlett told Georgemag.com: "You take that
exam
because you are flying, and he was not flying. The paperwork
uses
the phrase 'suspended from flying,' but he had no intention
of
flying at that time."

Some media reports have speculated that Bush took and
failed
his physical, or that he was grounded as a result of
substance
abuse. Bush's vagueness on the subject of his past drug use
has only
abetted such rumors. Bush's commanding officer in Texas,
however,
denies the charges. "His flying status was suspended because
he
didn't take the exam, not because he couldn't pass," says
Hodges.
Asked whether Bush was ever disciplined for using alcohol or
illicit
drugs, Hodges replied: "No."

On September 5, Bush wrote to then-Colonel Jerry Killian
at his
original unit in Texas, requesting permission to serve with
the
187th Tactical Reconnaisance Group, another Alabama-based
unit.
"This duty would be for the months of September, October, and
November," wrote Bush.

This time his request was approved: 10 days later, the
Alabama
Guard ordered Bush to report to then-Lieutenant Colonel
William
Turnipseed at Dannelly Air Force Base in Montgomery on
October 7th
and 8th. The memo noted that "Lieutenant Bush will not be
able to
satisfy his flight requirements with our group," since the
187th did
not fly F-102s.

The question of whether Bush ever actually served in
Alabama has
become an issue in the 2000 campaign-the Air Force Times
recently
reported that "the GOP is trying to locate people who served
with
Bush in late 1972 ... to see if they can confirm that Bush
briefly
served with the Alabama Air National Guard." Bush's records
contain
no evidence that he reported to Dannelly in October. And in
telephone interviews with Georgemag.com, neither Turnipseed,
Bush's
commanding officer, nor Kenneth Lott, then chief personnel
officer
of the 187th, remembered Bush serving with their unit. "I
don't
think he showed up," Turnipseed said.

Bush maintains he did serve in Alabama. "Governor Bush
specifically remembers pulling duty in Montgomery and
respectfully
disagrees with the Colonel," says Bartlett. "There's no
question it
wasn't memorable, because he wasn't flying." In July, the
Decatur
Daily reported that two former Blount campaign workers recall
Bush
serving in the Alabama Air National Guard in the fall of
1972. "I
remember he actually came back to Alabama for about a week to
10
days several weeks after the campaign was over to complete
his Guard
duty in the state," stated Emily Martin, a former Alabama
resident
who said she dated Bush during the time he spent in that
state.

After the 1972 election, which Blount lost, Bush moved
back to
Houston and subsequently began working at P.U.L.L., a
community
service center for disadvantaged youths. This period of time
has
also become a matter of controversy, because even though
Bush's
original unit had been placed on alert duty in October 1972,
his
superiors in Texas lost track of his whereabouts. On May 2,
1973,
Bush's squadron leader in the 147th, Lieutenant Colonel
William
Harris, Jr. wrote: "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this
unit" for
the past year. Harris incorrectly assumed that Bush had been
reporting for duty in Alabama all along. He wrote that Bush
"has
been performing equivalent training in a non-flying status
with the
187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama." Base
commander
Hodges says of Bush's return to Texas: "All I remember is
someone
saying he came back and made up his days."

Two documents obtained by Georgemag.com indicate that
Bush did
make up the time he missed during the summer and autumn of
1972. One
is an April 23, 1973 order for Bush to report to annual
active duty
training the following month; the other is an Air National
Guard
statement of days served by Bush that is torn and undated but
contains entries that correspond to the first. Taken
together, they
appear to establish that Bush reported for duty on nine
occasions
between November 29, 1972-when he could have been in
Alabama-and May
24, 1973. Bush still wasn't flying, but over this span, he
did earn
nine points of National Guard service from days of active
duty and
32 from inactive duty. When added to the 15 so-called
"gratuitous"
points that every member of the Guard got per year, Bush
accumulated
56 points, more than the 50 that he needed by the end of May
1973 to
maintain his standing as a Guardsman.

On May 1, Bush was ordered to report for further active
duty
training, and documents show that he proceeded to cram in
another 10
sessions over the next two months. Ultimately, he racked up
19
active duty points of service and 16 inactive duty points by
July
30-which, added to his 15 gratuitous points, achieved the
requisite
total of 50 for the year ending in May 1974.

On October 1, 1973, First Lieutenant George W. Bush
received an
early honorable discharge so that he could attend Harvard
Business
School. He was credited with five years, four months and five
days
of service toward his six-year service obligation.

================================================== ==

tw

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two wheels wrote:

So, if he wanted to continue
flying, he'd have to train on the new-generation replacement
jet--all over again. This was before simulators.


You mean this happened before WW II?

Cheers
Marty

two wheels wrote:


A little remedial education:

A "fact" has to be true.

GW was never AWOL.

Go back and re read your above two statements. Rather a serious
disconnect there.

If it's not in his military records, it didn't
happen. No superior of his (in a position to know) said that his
absences were without leave.

No, but two of his superiors were unaware that he was attached to their
command and said that he never showed up for duty as scheduled. The
fact that AWOL charges were never preferred (or perhaps removed from
his record) does not 'prove' that he completed his obligation.

In any event, since he avoided going to Viet Nam unlike Al Gore, what
is so honorable about GWB's military service?



And, as for the flying:

They were about to "mothball" the F-102 Delta Dagger interceptor
that Bush had been trained on. It was obsolete. The F-102 was
designed to intercept Soviet bombers. So, if he wanted to continue
flying, he'd have to train on the new-generation replacement
jet--all over again........ (snipped for brevity)...

blah bla blah.... I thought that 'conservatives' were supposed to take
responsibility for their actions, not yabble on and on with a lot of
whiny excuses. I guess there is a double standard.

DSK