************************************

The Ranger 22 is basically a midget
IOR boat with a fractional rig. I
think it's a good boat for a novice
sailor who wants a low priced, fast,
fun, starter boat, that would improve
the owners sail trim skills quickly.
I think fractional rigs are ideal
boats to perfect your skills.

It would also be a good boat for a more
experienced sailor that could appreciate
its value, design, and capabilities.

I let one of these Ranger 22's with
a dual axle galvanized trailer pass
me by recently. I have a boat in
this size range. Still it was very
tempting. That boat sold on eBay for
for $2026. Asking price is often in
the $4000-$6000 range.

Basically, the popular J-24 class puts
a price cap on them, and the smaller
production numbers of the R-22 makes
them harder to resell. Hence they must
be purchased at a low price because
the resale price will be low.

The below listed R-22 is worth the
"buy it now" price of $3000. And I
think it will sell at the same price
level as a similar boat which sold
on eBay for $2026 with trailer.

This boat has a new galvanized trailer,
which cost new $3400--more than the
"buy it now" price asked for boat and
trailer. Note there is a title probelm
with the trailer--sounds like a lien
takeover. I'd use the normal bid process,
not the "buy it now", and try to pick it
up for $2200.

If I didn't already have too many
boats, I'd buy this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&rd=1&category=26433&item=2444453616

Or go to eBay and search for 2444453616

The R-22 has my preferred style, mid
cockpit traveller which gives you
something to hang onto while sailing
to weather in the chop, but might snag
you on the unexpected gybe.

It's got enough room to overnight on,
and you can store it in your back yard.
All you need is a yacht club with a
hoist or better yet, an inexpensive
mooring.

If I was young and couldn't afford
anything bigger, I'd buy one of these
and go cruise the Caribbean in it,
and unlike bigger boats which can be
work to sail, this one would be fun
and easy to sail it every day--even
a short sail around the harbor would
be a blast with very little effort
to manage the sails.

eBay Item number: 2444868920

Class Web Site:

http://www.strictlysailing.com/ranger22/boat.html

************************************
RANGER 22 RANGER 23 comparison:
************************************

I find the R-22 to be far prettier than
the R-23. I'm less interested in interior
room than I am the looks of the boat. And
I'll admit I'm a sucker for this IOR look.
The R-22 is a gorgeous little boat.

The R-23 has a longer waterline--20' vs
17.5', so I suspect it is a faster boat,
although at 2/3 the the weight of the
R-23, the R-22 has more appeal and I
think it would be lightning fast in
planing conditions with a spinnaker.

Who has sailed both can can report on
them? I welcome any serious comments.

Stats on the two boats.

Ranger 22 Ranger 23
Designer:........Gary Mull..Gary Mull
Year of Design...1976 (?)...1971
L.O.A............22'6"......22'11"
L.W.L............17'6"......20'0"
Beam.............7'10"......7'11"
Draft............4'3".......3'9"
Sail Area........209 sq.ft..263 sq.ft
Displacement.....2,182 lbs..3,394 lbs
Ballast..........900 lbs....1,500 lbs
SA/Dis...........19.88......18.63
DL Ratio.........179........189

*************************************

A few words about Gary Mull taken from:

http://members.dca.net/pwink/ranger/garymull.htm

Gary Mull was a successful designer. His
credits include the Santana 22, 27, and 37;
the Ranger 22, 23, 26, 29, 32, 33, and the
SORC-winning Ranger 37; the Newport 30 and
33; the Kalik 44; the Freedom Independence,
28, 30, 36, 42, 45; a variety of winning
raceboats from the Half-Tonner Hotflash,
built by the Gougeon Brothers in 1976, to
Two-Tonners like Carrot (1976), to the
12-Meter USA; the Capri 22, which he designed
with Catalina's Frank Butler in 1983 (more
than 800 sold); and custom designs including
the light-displacement speedster Improbable,
the 6-Meter match racers St. Francis IV, V,
and VI; Ranger, built by Goetz Custom Yachts
and raced by Ted Turner in the 1979 6-Meter
Worlds; and the maxi-boat, Sorcery.

His boats were built in numerous other
countries, including Australia, New Zealand,
Italy, Taiwan, Turkey, and Yugoslavia. He
also served as chairman of the International
Technical Committee of the Offshore Racing
Council, the group that administered the IOR
(International Offshore Rule).

He worked hard for several years on the
Golden Gate Challenge 12-Meter program
for the 1987 America's Cup. The result
was the radical forward-rudder USA
skippered by Tom Blackaller. She showed
promise but failed to win the trials.

(note current designers are returning
to this concept)

Wrong item number, but thanks for the link, I managed to track it down.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...2444868920&cat
egory=26433
Noticed quite a few interesting boats, did you see this one? Never heard of
the manufacturer, maybe a kit boat, but the interior looks sharp. I know
someone that sold a Bruce Roberts steel boat recently, he got tired of
having it welded.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...2444474198&cat
egory=26433
John Cairns
"N1EE" wrote in message
m...
************************************

The Ranger 22 is basically a midget
IOR boat with a fractional rig.

That boat is good only ass a live aboard.

The low hours on the engine and rig make me
think it has never left it's berth.

"John Cairns" wrote

Noticed quite a few interesting boats, did you see this one? Never heard of
the manufacturer, maybe a kit boat, but the interior looks sharp. I know
someone that sold a Bruce Roberts steel boat recently, he got tired of
having it welded.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...2444474198&cat
egory=26433
John Cairns

N1EE wrote:

************************************

The Ranger 22 is basically a midget
IOR boat with a fractional rig.

Yep. It's actually kind of a mismatch between hull &
rig. It doesn't really sail like a frac rig because
the boom is so short & the mainsail is not where the
horsepower comes from.


The R-22 has my preferred style, mid
cockpit traveller which gives you
something to hang onto while sailing
to weather in the chop, but might snag
you on the unexpected gybe.

One of the issues here is that the R-22 cockpit is
very small. The footwell aft of the traveller is
restricive to the helmsman. It's not a good
daysailing boat for more than three people and I
found steering from the footwel takes a bit of
getting used to.


The R-23 has a longer waterline--20' vs
17.5', so I suspect it is a faster boat,

The Ranger 23 generally rates a bit lower then the
R-22 so most PHRF committees think they are a bit
faster too.


... R-22 has more appeal and I
think it would be lightning fast in
planing conditions with a spinnaker.

Bzzt thanks for playing. The Ranger 22 isn't going to
plane at all. The hull shape is an IOR shape,
remember? It not a full fledged broach coach but it
does get a bit unruly under spinnaker, and will
obstinantely refuse to plane even with big waves & 25
knot wind pushing the spinnaker.

But it is a very fun boat to sail.

Comparing the Ranger 23 to the 22... the R23 is a
much bigger boat. The cabin & cockpit are much
roomier. Almost unbelievable. I think that under some
conditions the Ranger 22 is faster but for most the
R23 would win. It's also much more straighforward to
sail. It's a much plainer looking boat but very
practical. The Ranger 23 is the smaller sister of the
Ranger 26, R-29, and R-33 that were popular
racer/cruisers and are among the better of that
class.

Thanks for the bio on Gary Mull, he was a great
designer.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Doug great comments on the two boats. 5 pts.

I noticed the R-22 on eBay sold for $1822.
That is a fine deal for a small keelboat
and trailer.

I find it hard to believe it won't plane in
20+ knots. I can believe it would tend
to squirrel around with a spinnaker.

Bart

DSK wrote


N1EE wrote:

************************************

The Ranger 22 is basically a midget
IOR boat with a fractional rig.

Yep. It's actually kind of a mismatch between hull &
rig. It doesn't really sail like a frac rig because
the boom is so short & the mainsail is not where the
horsepower comes from.


The R-22 has my preferred style, mid
cockpit traveller which gives you
something to hang onto while sailing
to weather in the chop, but might snag
you on the unexpected gybe.

One of the issues here is that the R-22 cockpit is
very small. The footwell aft of the traveller is
restricive to the helmsman. It's not a good
daysailing boat for more than three people and I
found steering from the footwel takes a bit of
getting used to.


The R-23 has a longer waterline--20' vs
17.5', so I suspect it is a faster boat,

The Ranger 23 generally rates a bit lower then the
R-22 so most PHRF committees think they are a bit
faster too.


... R-22 has more appeal and I
think it would be lightning fast in
planing conditions with a spinnaker.

Bzzt thanks for playing. The Ranger 22 isn't going to
plane at all. The hull shape is an IOR shape,
remember? It not a full fledged broach coach but it
does get a bit unruly under spinnaker, and will
obstinantely refuse to plane even with big waves & 25
knot wind pushing the spinnaker.

But it is a very fun boat to sail.

Comparing the Ranger 23 to the 22... the R23 is a
much bigger boat. The cabin & cockpit are much
roomier. Almost unbelievable. I think that under some
conditions the Ranger 22 is faster but for most the
R23 would win. It's also much more straighforward to
sail. It's a much plainer looking boat but very
practical. The Ranger 23 is the smaller sister of the
Ranger 26, R-29, and R-33 that were popular
racer/cruisers and are among the better of that
class.

Thanks for the bio on Gary Mull, he was a great
designer.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

N1EE wrote:

Doug great comments on the two boats. 5 pts.

Thanks what are the overall scores now?



I noticed the R-22 on eBay sold for $1822.
That is a fine deal for a small keelboat
and trailer.

If it's in shape to sail, I'd agree. The trailer would be a
good deal (if in decent shape) at that price. However the
sailboat market is really in the dumper right now.
Everybody who wants a boat badly enough to actually pay for
one, already has one (or in most cases more than one).




I find it hard to believe it won't plane in
20+ knots.

The hull isn't shaped for any kind of lift. The stern pulls
up a walloping big roiling wake. You can feel the boat sort
of shudder and try to break loose, but it won't. We have
hit 7.5 knots which is faster than hull speed, but we were
pulling a huge noisy pile of boiling water and definitely
not planing.

Contrast that with the Johnson 18 which planes at the drop
of a hat (so to speak) an leaves a smooth flat bubbly wake
behind it.


I can believe it would tend
to squirrel around with a spinnaker.

It's not as bad as some, like say for example the Ranger 37
which is the bubble-sided IOR shape of an earlier
generation than the R-22. Those darn things go downwind
like dog in a cow pasture, always stopping to roll in the
patties. It takes a blooper to tame them.

If you look, you can see photos of racing boats in that era
(mid 1970s) sailing downwind in fine weather with their
bloopers set flying and their mains half dropped. Most of
them went upwind as though on rails but didn't like going
the other way (or at least, didn't like going fast).

One of the nicest things IMHO about an asymmetric spinnaker
is that it does not produce any inclination to broach,
unlike a big masthead tri radial spinnaker.

The R-22 is a cool little boat.
http://community.webshots.com/album/76563516CcbaFc
Apologies if you've seen these pics before, this is my
friends boat and some shots of one of the days we went
sailing... and also proved it wouldn't plane, but
unfortunately I was too busy to take pictures while we were
flying the spinnaker.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

.... However the
sailboat market is really in the dumper right now.
Everybody who wants a boat badly enough to actually pay for
one, already has one (or in most cases more than one).

wrote:
This is baloney, of course. I've seen you post the same nonsense before.

If it were baloney, then why would we be discussing a nice little boat selling on
EBay for a song? Well, OK more than a song, a less favorite album maybe....


..... I just
sold an extra boat I had 3 weeks ago. I advertised it for less than a month and
got a huge response. The couple who bought it, drove from the shores of Lake
Michigan via Canada, to Connecticut to pay the full asking price and trailer it
home. That was a more than 2 thousand mile round trip. There was a steady stream
of potential customers who looked at the boat, mostly from out of state, who
drove a long way to look at the boat. When it sold, I had to email a half a
dozen people to cancel their trips, including folks in Massachucetts, New
Hampshire, New York State and Long Island.

Well, that sounds great. I'm happy for you. But your selling experience is rather
outside the usual, hence the good number of boats on EBay, the many many boats
listed for long time unsold in other classifieds, etc etc.

In short, my post was not baloney. You just have the good luck to have a contrary
experience. You should have a more positive attitude.

BTW what kind of boat was it?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

wrote:


Please visit a few places like trailersailor.com and read the
testimonials.

Their testimonials are largely fictional. I had a boat advertised at the Trailer Sailor
BBS before it went commercial, and got a number of interested & sincere responses. The
ad carried over, and the ad under the new ownership got a lot of inquiries which were
suspiciously alike. Turns out that some of the claims from their testimonials are from
boats which were never even advertised there.



Good boats at fair prices are moving fast.

The cream always gets picked up, agreed. But from what I'm seeing (and it may be
geographical) the average is that sailboats are not selling well and the ones that are
selling are at lower prices than 4 ~ 5 years ago.


..My experience appears to be closer to the norm,

Actually, I'm beginning to wonder exactly what

and you are
still full of baloney.

OK, you can join Navvie's club.

DSK

wrote:

Yet, my experience exactly mirrors those testimonials. What makes you
think they are fiction?

The fact that out of the four I investigated, three were boats that had never been
advertised at all.


Do you have any sort of real evidence, other
than your well demonstrated ability to make things up as you go along?

Funny you should say that. I don't make things up, don't need to and don't want to.


...Because
fiberglass tends to last forever, many boats on the market are really
derilicts that should have bene scrapped.

Agreed.

However, bear in mind that this discussion started because of a nice boat (condition
unverified but assumed to not be junk) that was being sold for a startlingly low price...
and was merely one on a long long list of such boats.

You are entitled to your opinion, but nothing you've said changes the facts I've observed.

DSK

wrote:


Correction: I am entitled to my opinion, but nothing changes your
opinion.

Correction- observed facts will change my opinion.

This doesn't happen often, largely because I don't like to cling to wishful thinking, old wives
tales, and hearsay. This is why some of my opinions are contradictory to "accepted wisdom"
which is often merely a new way of saying that the Earth is flat.

Of course you are still entitled to your opinion.

DSK