George Washington, the first and only president to have never lied.

Ronald Reagun, too brain dead to have knowingly lied. He actually
believed he was a figher pilot. (Reminds me of Bushy II.)

GHWB, former head of the CIA. They *certainly* never lie.

GWB, a lying scumbag.

Horass, a guy with tits and a lousy boat.

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:24:24 -0500, "Vito" wrote
this crap:

But Jonathan, ALL presidents (and senators and congressmen and ..)
HABITUALLY lie to people. Moreover, they have ALWAYS done so. Do you know
of
ANY president who never lied?

George Washington, Ronald Reagan, and both George Bushs'.





This signature is now the ultimate power in the universe

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Sure... George Washington.

Naw, he lied too. So did Abe.

So what you're saying is that because other people lie or have lied, it's
ok to lie.

No, just that you shouldn't get excited when a skunk acts like a skunk.

What makes you think I'm not involved?

Your innocence. You don't seem to know that all major parties teach
candidates that they MUST lie to get elected then lie more to reach their
political goals. Would the Shrub have been elected if he'd promised us a war
and the biggest deficits in history? No, and he knew that because his
pollsters told him what we wanted and didn't want to hear. So he promised us
peace and prosperity and to save the unborn children and put god back in
charge and no more BJs and all the other crap most voters want to hear. And
it worked - just like it did for his predecessors. And y'know what - he'll
do it again this fall.

Bush can tell the difference between a rifle and an air rifle?

Doesn't matter - he's not trying to ban either one. OTOH all the Democrat
candidates promise to ban target rifles that look like assault rifles - even
General Clark who should know better.

I guess he can't tell the difference between being AWOL and doing his
duty.

Sure he can but being a trained politician he won't tell the truth about it.

Show me an instance of George lying. Abe lied, but both of these guys are
dead.

I think it's reasonable to get upset and angry when a president lies. I
guess
when Nixon lied, it was ok and nothing to get upset about.

I think I know pretty clearly what politicians should and shouldn't do...
it's
a couple of fairly clearly defined concepts called US Law and morality.

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Sure... George Washington.

Naw, he lied too. So did Abe.

So what you're saying is that because other people lie or have lied,
it's
ok to lie.

No, just that you shouldn't get excited when a skunk acts like a skunk.

What makes you think I'm not involved?

Your innocence. You don't seem to know that all major parties teach
candidates that they MUST lie to get elected then lie more to reach their
political goals. Would the Shrub have been elected if he'd promised us a
war
and the biggest deficits in history? No, and he knew that because his
pollsters told him what we wanted and didn't want to hear. So he promised
us
peace and prosperity and to save the unborn children and put god back in
charge and no more BJs and all the other crap most voters want to hear.
And
it worked - just like it did for his predecessors. And y'know what -
he'll
do it again this fall.

Bush can tell the difference between a rifle and an air rifle?

Doesn't matter - he's not trying to ban either one. OTOH all the Democrat
candidates promise to ban target rifles that look like assault rifles -
even
General Clark who should know better.

I guess he can't tell the difference between being AWOL and doing his
duty.

Sure he can but being a trained politician he won't tell the truth about
it.

Actually, what I'm trying to figure out is why a lot of people *aren't*
upset
about a president lying and thousands of people dying. Maybe you can
explain it to me. Perhaps you can also explain why people aren't upset
about Bushy gutting the environment, degrading the military, and screwing
up the economy. He must have magical powers.

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Sure... George Washington.

Naw, he lied too. So did Abe.

So what you're saying is that because other people lie or have lied,
it's
ok to lie.

No, just that you shouldn't get excited when a skunk acts like a skunk.

What makes you think I'm not involved?

Your innocence. You don't seem to know that all major parties teach
candidates that they MUST lie to get elected then lie more to reach their
political goals. Would the Shrub have been elected if he'd promised us a
war
and the biggest deficits in history? No, and he knew that because his
pollsters told him what we wanted and didn't want to hear. So he promised
us
peace and prosperity and to save the unborn children and put god back in
charge and no more BJs and all the other crap most voters want to hear.
And
it worked - just like it did for his predecessors. And y'know what -
he'll
do it again this fall.

Bush can tell the difference between a rifle and an air rifle?

Doesn't matter - he's not trying to ban either one. OTOH all the Democrat
candidates promise to ban target rifles that look like assault rifles -
even
General Clark who should know better.

I guess he can't tell the difference between being AWOL and doing his
duty.

Sure he can but being a trained politician he won't tell the truth about
it.

Actually, what I'm trying to figure out is why a lot of people *aren't*
upset
about a president lying and thousands of people dying.

It's pretty simple, Jonathan. I was discussing it with a few friends last
night. It's because evil people support evil leaders and their actions. Half of
this country wanted blood for 9/11. Anyone's blood. It didn't matter if anyone
was guilty or not. They just wanted their hatred and bloodlust quenched. Bush
gave that to them. That's all they care about. He's the master of junk food
politics, supplying bad but "tasty" leadership to the trailer trash of this
country. So long as he remains president, the USA will swell even larger with
anger and racism until we become "evil" by association in the eyes of the
world.

RB

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote

Actually, what I'm trying to figure out is why a lot of people *aren't*
upset
about a president lying and thousands of people dying.

Same reason they won't vote for any honest candidate. They LIKE being lied
to!

Back in '64, Goldwater was honest about Vietnam. He said that, as a senator,
he didn't have enough info to decide what to do, but when he did he'd either
get the hell out of there or go in and kick ass - as the situation
warranted. LBJ OTOH swore he never send your boy to Vietnam even tho he
already planned to do just that. LBJ won by a landslide.

So, if you were running what would you do?

I'm not sure I'd use Goldwater as an example of an honest polititian,
although
he was was fairly honest. He was also fairly extreme in many of his views,
which
he later changed or amended.

I really don't believe that people want to be lied to. I believe that there
are situations
when a lie is probably expedient, but probably not worth supporting in the
long term.
LBJ will probably turn out to be one of the greats. Even though his VN
policies were
terrible and cost 1000s of US and VN lives, he did do amazing things
domestically.

If I were running for office, I would try to be honest and certainly not a
self-serving
asshole like Bush and Chumpy.

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote

Actually, what I'm trying to figure out is why a lot of people *aren't*
upset
about a president lying and thousands of people dying.

Same reason they won't vote for any honest candidate. They LIKE being lied
to!

Back in '64, Goldwater was honest about Vietnam. He said that, as a
senator,
he didn't have enough info to decide what to do, but when he did he'd
either
get the hell out of there or go in and kick ass - as the situation
warranted. LBJ OTOH swore he never send your boy to Vietnam even tho he
already planned to do just that. LBJ won by a landslide.

So, if you were running what would you do?

"DSK" wrote:
Oh yes, there are several families of them living on Lake Jordan not
twenty miles from my house. They have made a pretty good comeback.

I used to live just west of Tulsa, OK on Keystone Lake. It was a refuge
area for Eagles (, and there were many of them.. A coincidence that it was
just across the lake from the sailboats in the cove...heh

http://www.audubon.org/

LP