"Olaf Peuss" wrote in message
...
Donal wrote:

It seems to me that you need to bolster your ego by attacking strangers
on
the Internet.

An undersized penis is a much bigger(smaller??) problem than a dodgy
watch.

I love amateur psychologists like you - with the emphasis being on
AMATEUR... ;-)

Fair comment!



Cigarettes and booze are taxed heavily in the UK, and therefore they are
much cheaper when they can be purchased "Duty Free".
Most other things that are sold in airport shops are more expensive than
in
the high street.

You aren't exactly telling me anything new. You'll have to admit,
however, that there's a "little" difference between buying some packs of
cigarettes (and/or a bottle of whisky) and purchasing a high tech watch.

I agree. However, I am surprised at the amount of flaming in this thread.
Anybody would be very relaxed after a couple of weeks in a Carribbean
resort. I'd say that there are loads of people in Chris's position.

Regards


Donal
--

On 17 Feb 2004 16:52:51 +0000
Hugo 'NOx' Tyson wrote:


(Chris Brady) writes:

Whilst the waterproof feature is always useful for yachting, where
are the other features necessary for yachting/sailing?

Like what? Name some? It's *watch*, not a GPS, nor a compass, nor a
barometer, nor a sextant.

Specifically I'm referring to the complete lack of any navigation
functions including direction estimation, tacking angles, ability to
read in the dark (e.g. a back-lit display which my Casio has) -
important for night sailing, and wind direction and strength
estimation - to name a few.

How would a watch do these things? (except read in the dark - are you
sure it's not luminous?) You may as well say "it doesn't do any
sailing functions such as reefing, tacking, trimming and sheeting -
and it can't even be used as an anchor!" ;-)


Well, a digital compass isn't hard to implement, nor is an inertial
sensor. The parts required for those are cheaply available and quite
tiny. But i have no idea how useful those would be to a sailor. At least
when strapped to one's wrist.

Maybe he wants a watch that does everything but tell dirty jokes?
Maybe he wants a watch that tells dirty jokes?

I agree that it sounds like buyer's remorse. hasty purchases can do
that. I feel for anyone who goes through that, but, sheesh, if you can't
take it back, sell it on eBay.

Try www.suunto.com and look at the sailing gizmo with a built in GPS. It
seems to do what you want for about £500.

They also do a golf one.

--
Richard Faulkner

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 01:01:02 -0000, "Donal"
scribbled thusly:

Donal, the watch is not "dodgy"
It is featured and performs exactly as advertised.
The fool bought a watch that didn't have the bells and whistles that
he expected on a "sailing watch"
He didn't do the research, bought the wrong watch and is now trying to
fob the blame for his stupidity onto the company via every bloody
newsgoup in the world.

He was *sold* a watch. The sales assistant led him to believe that he was
buying a "yachting" watch. It appears that the watch has very few sailing
features, if any. He was conned.


Regards


Donal
--

"Donal" wrote in message

snipped

I agree. However, I am surprised at the amount of flaming in this thread.
Anybody would be very relaxed after a couple of weeks in a Carribbean
resort. I'd say that there are loads of people in Chris's position.

Fair point. Though I am not one of the wiser men of the internet.... I
would say some criticism toward Mr. Brady is necessary. After all, I
suspect a good number of people (myself included) routinely read the
newsgroups to determine whether this thing is a good idea, what would
be the best etc. in this case, this is almost an unofficial consumer
review of the Citizen thingy. In other words, if you somehow review
something to be read by many people, do it well.

That said, I hope Mr. Brady does not become markedly withdrawn or
angry at this world due to this thread (sorry, folks ... I do not
intend to heap even more insult to insult to injury) - I hope we will
learn how to say things without excessive flame, as you apparently do
(though it is an art I haven't mastered myself). But again, this is a
newsgroup - and an alt. one at that. Regards, oi

OzOne wrote in message news
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:52:49 -0000, "Donal"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 01:01:02 -0000, "Donal"
scribbled thusly:

Donal, the watch is not "dodgy"
It is featured and performs exactly as advertised.
The fool bought a watch that didn't have the bells and whistles that
he expected on a "sailing watch"
He didn't do the research, bought the wrong watch and is now trying to
fob the blame for his stupidity onto the company via every bloody
newsgoup in the world.

He was *sold* a watch. The sales assistant led him to believe that he
was
buying a "yachting" watch. It appears that the watch has very few
sailing
features, if any. He was conned.



He bought a watch that's waterproof, has a timer/countdown timer,
rotating bezel and a number of other features.
What more could you want?

Tell me Donal, do you regard a sailing watch as one with an unreliable
windspeed meter and extremely basic GPS as an essential sailing watch
or a gimick laden piece of crap?

My sailing watch tells the time, and is waterproof. It didn't cost much

I've got a countdown timer on one of the boat instruments.

However, that doesn't mean that I would feel superior to someone who got
conned.


We've all been conned at some point in our lives. It's commonly known as
"experience". Being experienced doesn't make you any brighter than anybody
else, ... it just means that you have been conned more often!




Regards



Donal
--

--
Remove "nospam" from return address.
"Richard Faulkner" wrote in message
...

Try www.suunto.com and look at the sailing gizmo with a built in GPS. It
seems to do what you want for about £500.

They also do a golf one.

--
Richard Faulkner

You wouldn't be able to hit the ball very far with a watch, and what would
you use for those delicate chip shots around the green? I much prefer a full
set of Wilsons or Callaways.

omniscient idiot wrote:

[flaming in this thread]
Anybody would be very relaxed after a couple of weeks in a Carribbean
resort. I'd say that there are loads of people in Chris's position.

Fair point. Though I am not one of the wiser men of the internet.... I
would say some criticism toward Mr. Brady is necessary. After all, I
suspect a good number of people (myself included) routinely read the
newsgroups to determine whether this thing is a good idea, what would
be the best etc. in this case, this is almost an unofficial consumer
review of the Citizen thingy. In other words, if you somehow review
something to be read by many people, do it well.

My sentiments exactly. Before one starts criticising a product or
service, the critic should consider whether all points have been
reviewed fairly and that it isn't just a flame on the item being
subjected to a "critique" (or rather, in that case, criticism).
Unfortunately, Chris Brady seems to be good at criticising but his
ability of accepting his own mistakes - and he made quite a few of them
- doesn't seem to be at eye level with his capability of criticising. :-(


That said, I hope Mr. Brady does not become markedly withdrawn or
angry at this world due to this thread (sorry, folks ... I do not
intend to heap even more insult to insult to injury) - I hope we will
learn how to say things without excessive flame, as you apparently do
(though it is an art I haven't mastered myself). But again, this is a
newsgroup - and an alt. one at that. Regards, oi

I'm certainly far from being the most tactful person in the world. In
fact, I usually take a quite direct approach. However, I don't think
that I've ever called anyone names or verbally abused anyone. It's all
very well within "the Usenet standards" and although there's always room
for improvement, I don't think that I've been overly condescending with
our poor Chris Brady. It's also worth noting that he hasn't replied to
anyone in this group although he has received quite a lot of feedback -
probably because it hasn't been the feedback that he hoped for when he
posted his article - goes to prove my point that he isn't good at
accepting the fact that he alone is responsible for the mistakes in that
Citizen watch purchase.
Hope he hasn't thrown himself in front of a train, at least not without
bequeathing said Citizen watch to a charity organisation. ;-)

Kind regards,
Olaf

--
E-Mail only to reply-to address, please.

Looked like a troll to me.

If it was, it got the desired response.

Regds

In message , Olaf Peuss writes
omniscient idiot wrote:

[flaming in this thread]
Anybody would be very relaxed after a couple of weeks in a Carribbean
resort. I'd say that there are loads of people in Chris's position.
Fair point. Though I am not one of the wiser men of the internet....

would say some criticism toward Mr. Brady is necessary. After all, I
suspect a good number of people (myself included) routinely read the
newsgroups to determine whether this thing is a good idea, what would
be the best etc. in this case, this is almost an unofficial consumer
review of the Citizen thingy. In other words, if you somehow review
something to be read by many people, do it well.

My sentiments exactly. Before one starts criticising a product or
service, the critic should consider whether all points have been
reviewed fairly and that it isn't just a flame on the item being
subjected to a "critique" (or rather, in that case, criticism).
Unfortunately, Chris Brady seems to be good at criticising but his
ability of accepting his own mistakes - and he made quite a few of them
- doesn't seem to be at eye level with his capability of criticising. :-(


That said, I hope Mr. Brady does not become markedly withdrawn or
angry at this world due to this thread (sorry, folks ... I do not
intend to heap even more insult to insult to injury) - I hope we will
learn how to say things without excessive flame, as you apparently do
(though it is an art I haven't mastered myself). But again, this is a
newsgroup - and an alt. one at that. Regards, oi

I'm certainly far from being the most tactful person in the world. In
fact, I usually take a quite direct approach. However, I don't think
that I've ever called anyone names or verbally abused anyone. It's all
very well within "the Usenet standards" and although there's always
room for improvement, I don't think that I've been overly condescending
with our poor Chris Brady. It's also worth noting that he hasn't
replied to anyone in this group although he has received quite a lot of
feedback - probably because it hasn't been the feedback that he hoped
for when he posted his article - goes to prove my point that he isn't
good at accepting the fact that he alone is responsible for the
mistakes in that Citizen watch purchase.
Hope he hasn't thrown himself in front of a train, at least not without
bequeathing said Citizen watch to a charity organisation. ;-)

Kind regards,
Olaf


--
Richard Faulkner

I also purchased a citizen watch from Columbian Emeralds International in St
Lucia. They couldnt have been more helpful and were very knowledgable about
the watch. The cost was $260, which at the current x-rate is about £140. For
this you get a very good timepiece, a great sailing watch (IF you read the
instructions) and a nice looking piece of arm jewellery.

There are more features on this watch than you can shake a stick at and all
are aimed at sailing. It has 2 alarms, multiple time zones (which I have
used crossing the atlantic) including UTC! a race timer with many countdown
functions, chronograph, calendar and timer.

I am happy with my purchase because I went in with my eyes wide open and
knew what I wanted, what I cannot understand is why Chris hasnt read the
manual?

N


"Chris Brady" wrote in message
om...
Whilst at Antigua Airport in the duty free shop run by a crowd called
'Colombian Emeralds International' I stupidly purchased a Citizen
Eco-Drive chronograph watch specifically for sailing/yachting. That
was what the assistant told me it was for. Unfortunately I did not
have time to fully check out the features. I should have been warned
by the fact that she sold me the display model which might well have
been an old discontinued version. It was dated 2003 on the reverse.

During the flight home to the UK whilst reading the instruction
booklet I was (and still am) puzzled as to what features the watch
actually has for yachting/sailing.

So after returning home I looked on the Internet for the Citizen UK
web site but could not find one. But I did find this site:

http://www.citizendealer.com/citizen...ng_watches.htm

This stated the following details for both versions:

Citizen Model JR4010-51L / Citizen Model JR4000-55L

* Sailhawk Eco-Drive Yacht Timer Combination Quartz Watch --- The
Stars and Stripes America's Cup 2003 Official Watch. Features time and
calendar in 22 time zones, 1/100 second chronograph that measures up
to 24 hours, 99 minute countdown timer, one touch interchangeable
analog/digital times, retractable hands for display visibility, and
rotating 360 degree bezel.

* The official America's Cup insignia appears on the watch caseback
(big deal and hardly a selling point)
* Metal bracelet with all titanium case (that can be easily scratched
trying to take some links out).
* Blue dial (wow!!)
* Water resistant to 100 meters (useful)
* Safety fold over clasp with push button (useful?)
* 4 year power reserve (saves on batteries I suppose)

No other features are listed!!

So unfortunately apart from having a non-functional logo marked 'Stars
and Stripes' or 'America's Cup' I can see no extra features for
yachting that these two watches provide over and above what my very
considerably cheaper Casio basic sports timer watch already has (that
is apart from the Eco-Drive feature).

Whilst the waterproof feature is always useful for yachting, where are
the other features necessary for yachting/sailing?

I am now thinking that the watch I have is actually a simple timer and
not for yachting at all.

Specifically I'm referring to the complete lack of any navigation
functions including direction estimation, tacking angles, ability to
read in the dark (e.g. a back-lit display which my Casio has) -
important for night sailing, and wind direction and strength
estimation - to name a few.

Certainly there are absolutely NO instructions in the accompanying
booklet to describe the yachting functions (if they exist at all), not
even how to use the rotating bezel.

So please - what is the difference between the JR4000-55L and the
JR4010-51L models. Both seem to have the same features. So how do I
tell which version of the watch I have?

Also I am also having GREAT difficulty in removing some strap links to
allow me to actually wear the watch. The small arrows on some links do
not indicate any way of removing them, there are no instructions in
the booklet, and the small connecting pins are impossible to push
through using a small screwdriver. Indeed I have scratched the surface
of some of the links trying to do this. This does not say much about
the supposed hardness of the titanium band - but then I notice that
this is made in China so I suppose it is really made of soft metal and
not titanium after all.

The other SERIOUS issue I have with the watch is the button marked C
in the booklet. This is very easy to inadvertantly press with my
jacket sleeve and doing so appears to move the hour hand to indicate
the incorrect time. This is not a fault I would expect for a watch
that cost me over £200.

Frankly my year's old Casio Sports Timer cost £15 and is far better
suited to yachting and sailing. To say that I feel ripped off is an
understatement. I will NEVER purchase a Citizen watch again, and
certainly not from any duty free shop (so-called) with the word
'Colombian' in the title.

Citizen have deigned to reply to my emailed enquiries for further
information.

Fair winds and calm seas - but not for racing

C.J.Brady