I had a brand new Travellall as a Company Vehicle in 1970. After
3mos., there was a hole in the left wheel well open to the interior
of the car. I had to wear a slicker with the hood up when it rained
or I got a wet stripe down my back. But, I will give it its props. 4wd
with a compound low, there wasn't a foundation excavation site I
couldn't get in or out.

On 04 Mar 2004 16:43:19 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

The body didn't just rust, it disolved. or maybe it was electrolysis.


Exactly. They were rusting when brand new!

RB

But, I will give it its props. 4wd
with a compound low, there wasn't a foundation excavation site I
couldn't get in or out.

Yup, when they worked they WORKED. Still, one of the few vehicles where the
engine mounts could rot away lickety split. Just like Yugo, they deserved to go
under. Then again Jeep continues to sell lemons on a regular basis. 81K on my
Subaru Outback Limited and not a single repair or problem. Still runs like it
did 1st day. My friend's Legacy has 190K on it and no problems. Wish I could
say the same for my father's Lincoln, PT Cruiser and Chrysler minivan...all
newer cars and all with problems.

RB

DSK wrote:
Frank Maier wrote:
But to address the issue, unlike Jax's imaginary friend who sails
upwind under bare poles and motors for months on a gallon of gas, I
have crossed the Atlantic on a Folkboat clone. I recommend against it.

What would you say were the main plusses and minusses of the boat? What
rout did you take and what season was it? Sounds like a cool trip, and
obviously you survived

Hi, Doug,

Our trip originated in England. We started right after New Year's from
the Canaries to Barbados. Two 21-year-old college graduates venturing
out onto the deep blue. Oh yeah! Look out, world! Twentieth century
argonauts loose on the Panthalassa. Our previous experiences included
racing and cruising from New Orleans to Florida, the Yucatan, the
Bahamas, and parts of the Caribbean. My friend had been living in
England for the past four years while going to school, getting in some
local daysailing and racing. He bought the boat the summer before our
trip (summer of '68).

In retrospect, that year I wish I'd stayed in New Orleans and crewed
on one of the boats Charlie and Ginny sailed from New Orleans to
Tortola to start a charter company they decided to call "The
Moorings." Wonder how different my life would've been?

Folkboat:

Pluses: It crossed the Atlantic without sinking; but then, so did Thor
Heyerdahl on a boat built of marsh reeds tied into bundles. The Ra, or
at least Ra 2, may have leaked less than the Folkboat. And I think
they were about as fast.

Minuses: Everything else.

Oh, you wanted more detail? Ok, some commentary:

I've never been to jail. Well, ok, let me be more precise (honest).
I've never spent more than one night in a holding cell; but I'm
certain that a regular two-person cell would be roomier and more
comfortable than a Folkboat. What's the old quote? It's either Boswell
himself or him quoting Johnson saying something like, "Anyone smart
enough to get into jail will do so rather than go sailing because
sailing is like being in jail with a chance of drowning. And the
company is better." Anyway, that's the gist. And that's a pretty good
description of an ocean passage on a Folkboat. A jail cell in the
clutches of a maniacal giant paint-can shaker.

My experiences with that boat, and others, helped me decide that I was
a "modern" sailor. The 60's were a time of great change in the sailing
world as well as in the society around us. For me, the Cal 40, a
"plastic" fin-keel sloop, vs. "traditional" designs was equivalent to
Galileo telling the Papacy that the Earth goes around the sun, not
vice versa, and y'all just better damned well get used to it. It was
Darwin looking objectively at the reality around him and accepting
that species evolve; they were not created directly by God as-is and
intended by Him to remain as-is forever. Of course, there are still
religious traditionalists, like sailing traditionalists, IMHO, who
ignore reality in favor of their chosen philosophy. De gustibus... , I
guess.

So, you're perfectly welcome to go to sea in a Folkboat, or a Westsail
32, or any other "retro design" boat with a D/L ratio over 350. God
bless you. Have fun. I'd be happy to buy you a rum punch if we meet in
some island bar. We can savor our drinks and while away the evening
arguing tracking, acceleration, comfort-motion, politics, religion,
.... whatever. grin

But me, since the early 70's, I've been essentially an
anti-traditionalist. Mind you, I can walk the docks and admire the
aesthetics of 'em; but when it comes time to actually go sailing,
gimme a fiberglass fin-keel sloop. And please keep the D/L ratio under
250!

YMMV,

Frank

Then why aren't you sailing? I thought you retired.
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
had a business issue to handle, which it seems is now done with as of last
week. Not sure if I will continue this spring or wait until fall to
continue
south. lots of options.



Why would a retired person have issues to deal with?


Regards


Donal
--

"Frank Maier" wrote in message
om...
DSK wrote:
Frank Maier wrote:
But to address the issue, unlike Jax's imaginary friend who sails
upwind under bare poles and motors for months on a gallon of gas, I
have crossed the Atlantic on a Folkboat clone. I recommend against it.

What would you say were the main plusses and minusses of the boat? What
rout did you take and what season was it? Sounds like a cool trip, and
obviously you survived

Hi, Doug,

Our trip originated in England. We started right after New Year's from
the Canaries to Barbados.

Did you start from England, *or* from the Canaries?

Regards


Donal
--

But to address the issue, unlike Jax's imaginary friend who sails
upwind under bare poles

that friend has owned for years a Folkboat derivative.

But to address the issue, unlike Jax's imaginary friend who sails
upwind under bare poles


JAXAshby wrote:
that friend has owned for years a Folkboat derivative.

What kind of boat, Jax?

DSK

In article ,
wrote:

On 04 Mar 2004 22:10:52 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

But, I will give it its props. 4wd
with a compound low, there wasn't a foundation excavation site I
couldn't get in or out.

Yup, when they worked they WORKED. Still, one of the few vehicles where the
engine mounts could rot away lickety split. Just like Yugo, they deserved to
go
under. Then again Jeep continues to sell lemons on a regular basis. 81K on my
Subaru Outback Limited and not a single repair or problem. Still runs like it
did 1st day. My friend's Legacy has 190K on it and no problems.

I've got 210K on my Subaru Liberty 4WD sedan. Replacement clutch at
160K, CV joints at 190K. That's it. Generally, a Subaru motor is good
for 350K if looked after & serviced properly. My next one, if I decide
to trade up, will be a 2.5litre Forester.

PDW

In article ,
wrote:

On 04 Mar 2004 22:10:52 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

But, I will give it its props. 4wd
with a compound low, there wasn't a foundation excavation site I
couldn't get in or out.

Yup, when they worked they WORKED. Still, one of the few vehicles where the
engine mounts could rot away lickety split. Just like Yugo, they deserved to
go
under. Then again Jeep continues to sell lemons on a regular basis. 81K on my
Subaru Outback Limited and not a single repair or problem. Still runs like it
did 1st day. My friend's Legacy has 190K on it and no problems. Wish I could
say the same for my father's Lincoln, PT Cruiser and Chrysler minivan...all
newer cars and all with problems.

RB


And all this time you thought WE won WWII!

Don't forget the Japanese use that inferior metric system. Good thing
for American industry that they work under such a severe handicap,
isn't it?

PDW

Frank Maier wrote:
Folkboat:

Pluses: It crossed the Atlantic without sinking; but then, so did Thor
Heyerdahl on a boat built of marsh reeds tied into bundles. The Ra, or
at least Ra 2, may have leaked less than the Folkboat. And I think
they were about as fast.

Minuses: Everything else.

Surely you jest. Wasn't your path lined with admirers exclaiming over
what a suitable & seaworthy vessel you'd chosen?


Oh, you wanted more detail? Ok, some commentary:

I've never been to jail. Well, ok, let me be more precise (honest).
I've never spent more than one night in a holding cell; but I'm
certain that a regular two-person cell would be roomier and more
comfortable than a Folkboat. What's the old quote? It's either Boswell
himself or him quoting Johnson saying something like, "Anyone smart
enough to get into jail will do so rather than go sailing because
sailing is like being in jail with a chance of drowning. And the
company is better." Anyway, that's the gist. And that's a pretty good
description of an ocean passage on a Folkboat. A jail cell in the
clutches of a maniacal giant paint-can shaker.

A jail cell the size of a phone booth laid on it's side.

My imprssion of the Folkboat and it's many near-sisters is that they
actually are pretty good sailing boats, but have some quirks. For one, I
bet your boat leaked so much because 1- either somebody had tried to
caulk the laps similar to conventional planking and/or 2- the deck
wasn't properly canvassed & saturated, so all the spray went straight
below. Plus the freeboard is low, so you spend a lot of time with the
lee rail under.




My experiences with that boat, and others, helped me decide that I was
a "modern" sailor. The 60's were a time of great change in the sailing
world as well as in the society around us. For me, the Cal 40, a
"plastic" fin-keel sloop, vs. "traditional" designs was equivalent to
Galileo telling the Papacy that the Earth goes around the sun, not
vice versa, and y'all just better damned well get used to it. It was
Darwin looking objectively at the reality around him and accepting
that species evolve; they were not created directly by God as-is and
intended by Him to remain as-is forever. Of course, there are still
religious traditionalists, like sailing traditionalists, IMHO, who
ignore reality in favor of their chosen philosophy. De gustibus... , I
guess.

You have to admire that kind of devotion, even you have no desire to
emulate it.

Some of those old time boats were high art. They take a lot of very
specialized care, which most people don't have the time for even if they
had the patience (if they had the patience, the skills would follow).
One blessing is that the proper materials to take care of the survivors
are easier to find now than they were 35 years ago.

The Folkboat(s) I've sailed have all been fiberglass and day raced.
They're fun, but some sailors coming into them are frustrated because
they reward a very different type of handling than a fin keeler.



So, you're perfectly welcome to go to sea in a Folkboat, or a Westsail
32, or any other "retro design" boat with a D/L ratio over 350.

If I had to do something of the sort, I'd probably make it an S-boat.

... God
bless you. Have fun. I'd be happy to buy you a rum punch if we meet in
some island bar. We can savor our drinks and while away the evening
arguing tracking, acceleration, comfort-motion, politics, religion,
... whatever. grin

But me, since the early 70's, I've been essentially an
anti-traditionalist. Mind you, I can walk the docks and admire the
aesthetics of 'em; but when it comes time to actually go sailing,
gimme a fiberglass fin-keel sloop. And please keep the D/L ratio under
250!

Agreed... although an S-boat would be tempting as a feat of dedication.
My grandfather's soul would be pleased. The problem is that I've been
spoiled too long... had a series of boats that were less trouble, easier
to handle and less likely to bite if mis-handled, far less maintenance,
drier inside (and having a dry bunk can be worth a LOT), faster, etc
etc. My wife and I looked for a couple of years for a "big & serious"
cruising sailboat that had our desired features... speed, comfort,
seaworthy enough (but not making big sacrifices for it), good looks,
plus shallow draft... but we eventually got a tugboat instead and now we
just sail for fun.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King