Jim Cate wrote:
So, if I get a boat, I should get one with autohelm and lines led aft?

Autopilot definitely. Just don't use it inappropriately. Lines led aft
is a matter of taste. I know a lot of single- and short-handed cruisers
who hate them. It does clutter up the cabin top.

Personally, I like lines led to the cockpit, when the arrangement is
clear and all leads are fair & workable. I think the objections arise
from either 1- set-ups with a lot of drag, or at least one line that
cannot be led fair to a winch, or 2- set-ups with at least one critical
line NOT led aft, so you have to go to the mast anyway... some times
multiple trips... now that is really dumb, but I've seen it a few times.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

John Cairns wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

It may be a stupid question in your opinion, but in my opinion, it's a
very logical, sensible, and relevant question. According to your
"logic", if I spend $30K to $40K on a boat and it turns out that I can
only sail the boat two or three times a year, but if on one of those
trips I see a moonlit night, or experience a sunny breeze on the water,
it's all worth it? Maybe, but I can charter a number of different boats
of various sizes for a few hundred dollars and see all the moonlit
nights and sunny days and secluded anchorage's I want to.

Incidentally, please don't quote me as saying what I didn't say. What I
said was: IF NEARLY ALL owners of such boats find that they don't
continue to sail their boats as often as they thought when they bought
them, and IF, in fact, they are only able to get out very infrequently,
perhaps I should take this into consider as ONE FACTOR, among OTHERS,
when looking at boats. Please note: ONE FACTOR AMONG OTHERS. You may
think that I have a problem in making a decision and going ahead with
it. Not at all. But in this case, I have only been looking at boats for
about two weeks. Also, I will probably need my wife's participation, so
the boat has to be appealing to her as well.

In other words, before committing $30-$40K, plus future maintenance,
dock fees, insurance, etc., to this interest (which in my case is one of
many interests), it seems only reasonable to consider the experience of
others when going down the same path. I'm not questioning chasing a
dream and looking for those sunny days or moonlit nights, but that
doesn't mean that I should make precipitous decisions or spend this
kind of money irrationally (if, in fact, it's probably the case that I
won't get what I expect to get from the boat) that could otherwise go to
a number of other worthwhile purposes. - Like, as one example, helping
children who would otherwise starve to death or die of dysentery, etc.

Jim


If all you want to do is figure out how often the "average" boat owner uses
his boat, hang out at the marina. As someone else put it (Don Casey)

"sailing is a leisure time activity. It should require only discretionary
income, and not all of that. Maybe if you think you had the right boat, YOU
would spend every free minute on the water. The odds are against you. Take a
walk through any marina on a perfect Saturday and compare the number of
empty slips to the number with boats still tied in them. I assure you that
the owners of all those boats intended to use them very weekend, certainly
every sunny weekend. What happened?

Reality. A sunny weekend is also perfect for tennis. Or golf. Or a cookout
with friends. Or working on the lawn. Or a drive to Grandma's. There are
also concerts and weddings, sporting event and sales. And there are weekends
when it is rainy, or cold, or you just don't want to do anything."

The name of the book is "This Old Boat", pretty good reading though I'll
admit I might not ever take on the projects he covers in this book, the
first part talks about boat selection and even the justification for owning.
I own because I want to be able to sail whenever I fell like it. I took up
racing last season (crewing on someone else's boat) and probably logged more
miles under the keel of his boat than my own, to the point where I had
thoughts about selling MY boat. Why didn't I? I still want to own my own
boat, period. It makes no sense on a financial basis, but it's my money
right? Chartering as an alternative to ownership? If you OWN(no lien) your
own boat, one weeklong bareboat charter to a nice destination like the
Caribbean will equal or surpass my total annual expenses associated with
boat ownership. The bottom line, owning a sailboat is not a "rational"
decision. Might be more rational to purchase a used boat rather than new
one, but you can't "justify" the expense. Just something you either do or
don't, like a lot of things in life. Just my $2.
John Cairns


Thanks for the helpful suggestions. I have ordered two books by Reese
Palley that discuss his thoughts on sailing solo and his enjoyment of
sailing even in his senior years.

Jim

Him asked: Like a new Mac 26M for example?

NO! Don't nuy crap! I thought you were trying to be fiscally =
responsible???? Find an old, well-kept Catalina or O'day, or Pearson or =
Erikson....Don't ever buy new, the depreciation is horrendous...and you =
have to put all the "stuff" on yourself....get a boat that someone else =
has already outfitted....(stay away from yellow Coronado's with mauve =
interiors, though...you'll never resell it)=20

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

If you're trying to decide between buying a boat or feeding your children,
you should give the kids up and buy a boat. They'll be better off.

Sv

"Jim Cate" wrote
won't get what I expect to get from the boat) that could otherwise go to
a number of other worthwhile purposes. - Like, as one example, helping
children who would otherwise starve to death

good response, Scott. A tip of the hat to you.

If you're trying to decide between buying a boat or feeding your children,
you should give the kids up and buy a boat. They'll be better off.

Sv

"Jim Cate" wrote
won't get what I expect to get from the boat) that could otherwise go to
a number of other worthwhile purposes. - Like, as one example, helping
children who would otherwise starve to death

From what I've seen of charter prices and what I paid for my boat,
chartering would be too expensive for more then 2~3 sails per season.

Scotty

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:12:46 -0600, Jim Cate said:

Maybe, but I can charter a number of different boats
of various sizes for a few hundred dollars and see all the moonlit
nights and sunny days and secluded anchorage's I want to.

Having spent a number of years as a boat owner, a number of later years as
a
non-owner, and now having bought again, I can tell you that while
chartering
may seem to make sense in the abstract, in practice you prolly won't do
it.
In the years when I had my previous boat I was on the water nearly every
weekend the weather allowed. During the years as a non-owner I chartered
exactly once and was able to sail 4 days out of a 7 day charter. There's a
big difference between just driving down to the boat on a Friday night,
and
making all the needed arrangements for a charter.


Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

Thom, I'll be 50 this year (gag) and I'm slowing down a bit. My anchor gets
heavier every year. I think up to 40' I could single hand, especialy with RF
and good winches.
I don't think a bigger boat makes much difference ,as far as sailing,
anyway. When I sailed the Mac, I was just as happy as I am now (same sunny
weather, same moon, etc.), the big difference is at anchor, having more
room, stand up room in the cabin, a shower and real 'toilet' .

Yes, ''sailing schedule'' is an oxymoron to me.

Scotty


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Scott,

I believe you and I have about the right size boat for being able to
single hand. I think this has a lot to do with usage. Question; How
much bigger do you think you could go before wanting a crew to help you
(Needing a crew) sail.

I find as I'm getting older, I'm more at ease with some one else on the
boat. This wasn't always true. I loved those trips by myself with no
time limits or distance limits. Very loose float plans for my kids and
the boat and dog my only companion.

You seem to sail the same way. Do you think a bigger boat would please
you more?

Ole Thom

Scott Vernon wrote:
If you're trying to decide between buying a boat or feeding your children,
you should give the kids up and buy a boat. They'll be better off.

Sv


The kids are educated, married, and gone. The current choice is between
getting and maintaining and paying marina fees for a boat and things
like taking more trips to Europe, buying a small place on the Riviera,
getting a new HDTV home theater, buying a second home in the country,
opera performances in Milan and Vienna, etc., etc.

Jim





"Jim Cate" wrote

won't get what I expect to get from the boat) that could otherwise go to

a number of other worthwhile purposes. - Like, as one example, helping
children who would otherwise starve to death

This question is too EASY..... Don't Buy A Boat!!!

They're nothing but a hole in the water which will suck your funds dry. Sure
they look cool... but that wears off when someone shows up with a newer,
bigger, better model!

Let's face it Jim.... if you're currently concerned about usage... think
how miserable you'll be when you realize you need another income just to pay
the upkeep on the damned thing... which will of course leave you with little
to no time to enjoy sitting in it at the dock let alone sailing it. No
matter what type you buy... no matter what size... it starts depreciating
and rotting away as soon as you own it. Parts are constantly breaking and
there seems to be a fee for everything.

Ever notice how anything with the word "boat" or Marine" costs twice as much
as a comparable and effective non boat product? Don't even mention
insurance.... you pay but they don't. Boats are a constant worry... is it
sinking... will it survive the storm.... did a thru-hull give out?

Take my advise and get the villa.... this sailing stuff is way over done.
It's a miserable tedoius endeavour just to get the damned thing up and
moving... then there's the wind which is always on the nose. The romance of
sail is a plot sponsored by the boat manufacturers and charters. They show
you a photo of a tiny capsule of a very rare event and allude to it as being
normal. It's not.. it's inconvienient, wet, miserable and taxing. You never
make money with a boat... it's always a loss.

If I wasn't into it so deep now I could escape the madness of ownership.
Take my advise... run while you can. Leave us poor down trodden sods to our
pitiful existence. Leave us our dreams of moonlit nights and pleasent
sails.... to alleviate the constant burden of ownership. We have no
recourse... you still do!

SAVE YOURSELF MAN!!!! RUN!

Capt. Mooron
S.V. Overproof
[ ..you wonder why I drink so much!!??]


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Scott Vernon wrote:
If you're trying to decide between buying a boat or feeding your
children,
you should give the kids up and buy a boat. They'll be better off.

Sv


The kids are educated, married, and gone. The current choice is between
getting and maintaining and paying marina fees for a boat and things
like taking more trips to Europe, buying a small place on the Riviera,
getting a new HDTV home theater, buying a second home in the country,
opera performances in Milan and Vienna, etc., etc.

Jim





"Jim Cate" wrote

won't get what I expect to get from the boat) that could otherwise go
to

a number of other worthwhile purposes. - Like, as one example, helping
children who would otherwise starve to death

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Scott Vernon wrote:
If you're trying to decide between buying a boat or feeding your
children,
you should give the kids up and buy a boat. They'll be better off.

Sv


The kids are educated, married, and gone. The current choice is between
getting and maintaining and paying marina fees for a boat and things
like taking more trips to Europe, buying a small place on the Riviera,
getting a new HDTV home theater, buying a second home in the country,
opera performances in Milan and Vienna, etc., etc.


The key issue is "Quality of life"!



Regards


Donal
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