Jeff,

You say 25 knots is more like a jog in the park and 35 is survival conditions,
and then you say it's no big deal. 25 knots is 21 mph sustained. It's a force 6
wind. In a cruising boat, you should be in harnesses and reefed. In a dinghy
you shouldn't go out at all. I'm not saying it can't be fun, but don't make it
sound like it's a normal sailing experience. To use your own words, It's a jog
in the park.

The Veridican

On 14 Apr 2004 17:32:12 GMT, (Veridican) wrote:

Jeff,

You say 25 knots is more like a jog in the park and 35 is survival conditions,
and then you say it's no big deal. 25 knots is 21 mph sustained. It's a force 6
wind. In a cruising boat, you should be in harnesses and reefed. In a dinghy
you shouldn't go out at all. I'm not saying it can't be fun, but don't make it
sound like it's a normal sailing experience. To use your own words, It's a jog
in the park.

The Veridican

I think your math needs a second look. 25 knots is roughly 29 mph.

Well there you go. You have the perfect boat for the
perfect storm. I say leave now. By the time you get
there, it'll be Winter.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Yup. Now MacBoy has an unbiased opinion of a Mac ower turned
Hunter owner, who is definitely moving in the right direction.
So now MacBoy can *immediately* go sailing out on the ocean in
40kts wind. We'll all be waiting for your return... NOT.

I'm assuming that he was referring to the 26M model (the new boat?),
although it's not completely clear. As I understand the note, Ed didn't
actually sail the "new boat." So it's not really a very comprehensive
report, is it Johnathan?

By contrast, I happened to have had an extended discussion of the 26M
with an owner yesterday WHO HAD SAILED THE BOAT, under high wind and low
wind conditions. He was very pleased with its handling, and in contrast
with Ed, he thought the looks and interior of the boat were spectacular,
particularly for a boat in this price range. One thing I notice from
comments posted on the Mac discussion groups is that owners of the new
model like the new boat, whereas owners of the previous (26X) model
defend their own boats and pick fault with the new model, despite the
fact that few of them have ever sailed one. And since there are many
more owners of the 26X than owners of the 26M, the X owners are
predominate.

Jim

I think you missed a decimal point... 1.8 knots too high, 90 knots too low.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
an owner yesterday WHO HAD SAILED THE BOAT, under high wind and low
wind conditions

funny, but you seem to have neglected to mention what wind speed the owner
felt
was "high" for the boat and which was "low". Most feel 18 knots wind is
too
high for a mac and 9 knots is too low.

That's true with the SF bay. The only difference is that even
35 kts doesn't kick up more than 4 foot (maybe 5 foot) chop.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
"Veridican" wrote in message

I sail on the ocean, and I've sailed in 25 knot winds. Anyone who acts
like
that is a walk in the park doesn't sail; they only talk about it.


Its more like a jog in the park, Ed. I'll admit that 35+ starts feeling
more
like survival than pleasure boating, but I enjoy it, probably because its
the
only "survival sport" I feel qualified to participate in.

However, 25 knots is not that big of a deal. I've sailed in those
conditions
many, many times. Frankly, there was a period when I didn't bother to
go out
unless it was blowing over 20 knots. Nowadays, we might not go out for a
day
sail in 25 knots, especially if we have lubberly guests, but a forecast of
25
wouldn't affect our travel plans unless it was dead on the nose and we
were
looking for an excuse to stay put. In fact, our last trip home was in
those
conditions.

I'll admit that there's a lot fewer boats out when its blowing a bit, but
that's
as it should be, since most smaller boats aren't really built to handle it
and
certainly aren't comfortable. But there are lot of boats that are quite
capable of handling 25 knots in comfort. Frankly, the wind really isn't
the
issue at all, its the seas. Here in New England a brisk NW breeze is
offshore
and 25 knots is not that big an issue. A Nor'easter, however, might be
another
story.

"Veridican" wrote in message
...
Jeff,

You say 25 knots is more like a jog in the park

Yes, its a bit of work.


and 35 is survival conditions,
and then you say it's no big deal. 25 knots is 21 mph sustained. It's a force
6
wind. In a cruising boat, you should be in harnesses and reefed.

Yes, I'd probably be reefed, unless its downwind. I reef fairly often -
sometimes I'll reef at the dock and then shake it out if the predicted wind
doesn't happen. What's the point - is reefing a sign that its dangerous? I've
set all my "personal speed records" under shortened sail - currently 13.5 knots
in bursts, surfing down waves; about 12 knots sustained reaching in 25 knots of
wind. The former situation was a bit un-nerving because it was one of our
first times in the boat. The second was just a fun daysail, reaching back and
forth across Buzzard's Bay in a warm SW blow.

As for a harness - I very rarely use mine during the day - I don't recall ever
feeling at risk of going overboard. I do sometime wear inflatable SOSpendors,
if there's a chance I have to go forward. But my current boat and my previous
boat have large, secure cockpits with all lines led aft, good lifelines with
full netting. 25 knots of wind would not be a reason to harness. 8 foot seas
might be, but that's another story.

In a dinghy you shouldn't go out at all.

Total nonsense. I've run regatta's in 20 to 25 knots, though that's about the
limit for the small dinks we had. But I've raced a number of times in 25+
knots. I've taught beginners' lessons in 12 foot dinks in over 20, but I did
advise students that they were guaranteed to be soaked in 2 minutes, and a
capsize was likely if they took the tiller. In fact, in 6 years of instructing
I don't recall canceling a lesson just because of high wind, though the students
did decline on occasion.

I'm not saying it can't be fun, but don't make it
sound like it's a normal sailing experience.

It all depends on where you live, what kind of boat you have, and what type of
local support. Boston is the windiest city in the country, so its not uncommon
in the Spring and Fall to have serious wind. If you sail out of a club that has
committee boats and/or rescue launches you can afford to take some risks. And
for a proper cruising boat, 25 knots is not that big of a deal.

To use your own words, It's a jog
in the park.

There is at least one club (and another considering it), in Balt. that has
set a 'high wind' mark where they won't let students go out. This is part of
the aftermath of that water taxi that blew over in Balt. Inner Harbor.

Scotty


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
"Veridican" wrote in message
...
Jeff,

You say 25 knots is more like a jog in the park

Yes, its a bit of work.


and 35 is survival conditions,
and then you say it's no big deal. 25 knots is 21 mph sustained. It's a
force
6
wind. In a cruising boat, you should be in harnesses and reefed.

Yes, I'd probably be reefed, unless its downwind. I reef fairly often -
sometimes I'll reef at the dock and then shake it out if the predicted
wind
doesn't happen. What's the point - is reefing a sign that its dangerous?
I've
set all my "personal speed records" under shortened sail - currently 13.5
knots
in bursts, surfing down waves; about 12 knots sustained reaching in 25
knots of
wind. The former situation was a bit un-nerving because it was one of
our
first times in the boat. The second was just a fun daysail, reaching back
and
forth across Buzzard's Bay in a warm SW blow.

As for a harness - I very rarely use mine during the day - I don't
recall ever
feeling at risk of going overboard. I do sometime wear inflatable
SOSpendors,
if there's a chance I have to go forward. But my current boat and my
previous
boat have large, secure cockpits with all lines led aft, good lifelines
with
full netting. 25 knots of wind would not be a reason to harness. 8 foot
seas
might be, but that's another story.

In a dinghy you shouldn't go out at all.

Total nonsense. I've run regatta's in 20 to 25 knots, though that's about
the
limit for the small dinks we had. But I've raced a number of times in 25+
knots. I've taught beginners' lessons in 12 foot dinks in over 20, but I
did
advise students that they were guaranteed to be soaked in 2 minutes, and a
capsize was likely if they took the tiller. In fact, in 6 years of
instructing
I don't recall canceling a lesson just because of high wind, though the
students
did decline on occasion.

I'm not saying it can't be fun, but don't make it
sound like it's a normal sailing experience.

It all depends on where you live, what kind of boat you have, and what
type of
local support. Boston is the windiest city in the country, so its not
uncommon
in the Spring and Fall to have serious wind. If you sail out of a club
that has
committee boats and/or rescue launches you can afford to take some risks.
And
for a proper cruising boat, 25 knots is not that big of a deal.

To use your own words, It's a jog
in the park.

Last I checked also.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"felton" wrote in message
...
On 14 Apr 2004 17:32:12 GMT, (Veridican) wrote:

Jeff,

You say 25 knots is more like a jog in the park and 35 is survival
conditions,
and then you say it's no big deal. 25 knots is 21 mph sustained. It's a
force 6
wind. In a cruising boat, you should be in harnesses and reefed. In a
dinghy
you shouldn't go out at all. I'm not saying it can't be fun, but don't
make it
sound like it's a normal sailing experience. To use your own words, It's
a jog
in the park.

The Veridican

I think your math needs a second look. 25 knots is roughly 29 mph.

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ...
There is at least one club (and another considering it), in Balt. that has
set a 'high wind' mark where they won't let students go out. This is part of
the aftermath of that water taxi that blew over in Balt. Inner Harbor.

Scotty

Thats a shame.
Here it is kinda funny and sad. Some kid brought his 12 foot boat on
the lake a week or so ago and capsized strait out from were I live. He
was struggling to get it back upright, all he needed to do was release
his main sheet and he would of had the strength and weight to do it.
But before he figured that out the coast guard was there, Towboats
USA, CSCG Reserves, and four or five other speed boats. The cops were
on the bank, firetrucks standing by ect.

There are lots of apartment building and condos that over look the
lake and the locals go phone wild anytime anyone capsizes. Soon as the
water is a little warmer Im gonna go out, capsize, Sit on the board
just long enough for everyone to make all the calls, then pop up and
take off.

Poor kid, bet he was embaressed with all the fuss and boats, I was
suprised they did not have a blackhawk hovering over him.

Being able to right a boat is sailing 101. Everyone that sails a dink
should be able to right the boat they sail. And they should be left
alone and given the time and space to do it.

Joe






"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
"Veridican" wrote in message
...
Jeff,

You say 25 knots is more like a jog in the park

Yes, its a bit of work.


and 35 is survival conditions,
and then you say it's no big deal. 25 knots is 21 mph sustained. It's a
force
6
wind. In a cruising boat, you should be in harnesses and reefed.

Yes, I'd probably be reefed, unless its downwind. I reef fairly often -
sometimes I'll reef at the dock and then shake it out if the predicted
wind
doesn't happen. What's the point - is reefing a sign that its dangerous?
I've
set all my "personal speed records" under shortened sail - currently 13.5
knots
in bursts, surfing down waves; about 12 knots sustained reaching in 25
knots of
wind. The former situation was a bit un-nerving because it was one of
our
first times in the boat. The second was just a fun daysail, reaching back
and
forth across Buzzard's Bay in a warm SW blow.

As for a harness - I very rarely use mine during the day - I don't
recall ever
feeling at risk of going overboard. I do sometime wear inflatable
SOSpendors,
if there's a chance I have to go forward. But my current boat and my
previous
boat have large, secure cockpits with all lines led aft, good lifelines
with
full netting. 25 knots of wind would not be a reason to harness. 8 foot
seas
might be, but that's another story.

In a dinghy you shouldn't go out at all.

Total nonsense. I've run regatta's in 20 to 25 knots, though that's about
the
limit for the small dinks we had. But I've raced a number of times in 25+
knots. I've taught beginners' lessons in 12 foot dinks in over 20, but I
did
advise students that they were guaranteed to be soaked in 2 minutes, and a
capsize was likely if they took the tiller. In fact, in 6 years of
instructing
I don't recall canceling a lesson just because of high wind, though the
students
did decline on occasion.

I'm not saying it can't be fun, but don't make it
sound like it's a normal sailing experience.

It all depends on where you live, what kind of boat you have, and what
type of
local support. Boston is the windiest city in the country, so its not
uncommon
in the Spring and Fall to have serious wind. If you sail out of a club
that has
committee boats and/or rescue launches you can afford to take some risks.
And
for a proper cruising boat, 25 knots is not that big of a deal.

To use your own words, It's a jog
in the park.

Joe said:
Being able to right a boat is sailing 101. Everyone that sails a dink
should be able to right the boat they sail. And they should be left
alone and given the time and space to do it.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. At our yacht club, the first in-boat
lesson is capsizing and righting.
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein