Why is it poignant? Do you normally think of wind in MPH instead of knots?
How
lubberly!

Lubberly? Oh please. I live on the coast. We sweat hurricane warnings every
year. We eat in seaside restraunts that serve the fish the local fishing
companies catch. We sail almost every weekend. Lubberly?

The weather channel and their internet site use MPH, so do I. Lubberly--sheesh.

The Veridican
"Believe that truth is in the world when those who can see it follow it."

You could have sailed the boat yourself. I suppose the dealer told you that is
not possible now because he doesn't have a demonstrator.

Or, you could listen to what owners say. You can find dozens of comments that
the top speed under power in flat water to be 12-13 knots, and that it could be
hard to get on a plane in a moderate chop. Yet you keep insisting you can make
18 knots offshore.

I may not have sailed one, but I've sailed by them a number of times. In a
small chop they bob around and don't move. The people on board wonder why all
the other boats are going by; it doesn't look like fun at all.

I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it to
flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it
offshore.


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jeff Morris wrote:

Wow. Someone who just spent $32,000 claim they like the boat? What a
surprise!
People with actual experience with the company don't think its that much of
an
improvement. They must all be jealous.



And, you are suggesting that I speak with someone who hasn't sailed the
boat? Since no one on this ng has sailed the 26M, their opinions should
be given more weight than someone who has sailed the boat? No??? Then
who WOULD you accept as a reliable source? (To help you along, how
about: "those who are willing to bash the Mac decisively must, by
definition, know what they are talking about, even if they have never
even been near one." Is that about the size of it, Jeff?

Jim














You have a wonderful ability to rationalize, Jim. I suppose it makes life
easy.


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:


Yup. Now MacBoy has an unbiased opinion of a Mac ower turned
Hunter owner, who is definitely moving in the right direction.
So now MacBoy can *immediately* go sailing out on the ocean in
40kts wind. We'll all be waiting for your return... NOT.

I'm assuming that he was referring to the 26M model (the new boat?),
although it's not completely clear. As I understand the note, Ed didn't
actually sail the "new boat." So it's not really a very comprehensive
report, is it Johnathan?

By contrast, I happened to have had an extended discussion of the 26M
with an owner yesterday WHO HAD SAILED THE BOAT, under high wind and low
wind conditions. He was very pleased with its handling, and in contrast
with Ed, he thought the looks and interior of the boat were spectacular,
particularly for a boat in this price range. One thing I notice from
comments posted on the Mac discussion groups is that owners of the new
model like the new boat, whereas owners of the previous (26X) model
defend their own boats and pick fault with the new model, despite the
fact that few of them have ever sailed one. And since there are many
more owners of the 26X than owners of the 26M, the X owners are
predominate.

Jim

I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it
to
flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it
offshore.

What do you mean, "off shore"? And what do you mean, "flat water lakes"? When I
sailed a Mac, it was on a lake that was either dead calm or a squall. The only
sailing I know about with a Mac is during squalls. Now that I live on the
coast, I'd rather have a squall off shore than in the back bay. At least out
there I have room.

And don't talk about sailing pasts Macs as if that's a qualification for your
claim that they are no good. I watched a regatta the other week and a 40 ft
boat with full crew ran aground. We thought they were joking. We couldn't
figure out why they weren't turning the boat. It wasn't the boat--they just
didn't know how to sail.


The Veridican

"Veridican" wrote in message
...

Lubberly? Oh please. I live on the coast. We sweat hurricane warnings every
year. We eat in seaside restraunts that serve the fish the local fishing
companies catch. We sail almost every weekend. Lubberly?

BWAHAHAHAHA! You eat fish! Wow, that's pretty nautical for a Mac, excuse me,
a Hunter sailer!



The weather channel and their internet site use MPH, so do I.
Lubberly--sheesh.


But the marine forecast is in Knots. Using the "landlubber's forecast" (as
its referred to by my local NOAA site) is pretty lame.

But the marine forecast is in Knots. Using the "landlubber's forecast" (as
its referred to by my local NOAA site) is pretty lame.


Jeff--who cares? Really. You sound like someone who needs the security of being
considered "sea-faring" or whatever the opposite of lubberly is. I don't. I
don't have to prove a thing. I go with what works. In fact, I kind of like the
fact that I'm "lubberly." Down here it seems most of the fishermen are stupid,
grungy, beard-wearing, disgusting individuals who I try to avoid. They are not
lubberly--I'm sure. I am.


The Veridican

Hey - I'm not the one who didn't know how to convert knots to mph. I let it go
until you decided it was significant that the wind reads higher in mph than in
knots.



"Veridican" wrote in message
...
But the marine forecast is in Knots. Using the "landlubber's forecast" (as
its referred to by my local NOAA site) is pretty lame.


Jeff--who cares? Really. You sound like someone who needs the security of
being
considered "sea-faring" or whatever the opposite of lubberly is. I don't. I
don't have to prove a thing. I go with what works. In fact, I kind of like the
fact that I'm "lubberly." Down here it seems most of the fishermen are stupid,
grungy, beard-wearing, disgusting individuals who I try to avoid. They are not
lubberly--I'm sure. I am.


The Veridican

Jeff Morris wrote:
You could have sailed the boat yourself. I suppose the dealer told you that is
not possible now because he doesn't have a demonstrator.

I have sailed several of the previous models, and I've been following
their development and improvements for over 10 years. The Mac 26M
incorporates several changes that I had wanted to see in the other
boats. Regarding sailing the boat, however, it is almost impossible to
get a dealer to permit you to sail the boat out because of the very
limited supply and heavy demand for the boats.


Or, you could listen to what owners say.

(Owners of what? The 26x? And, why should I listen to what the owners
say, since you just warned me (in the note copied below) that the
owners can't be trusted since they don't want to admit that they made a
mistake in buying the boat.


You can find dozens of comments that
the top speed under power in flat water to be 12-13 knots, and that it could be
hard to get on a plane in a moderate chop. Yet you keep insisting you can make
18 knots offshore.

(Top speed of what? The 26x?) From the comments I have seen on various
ngs, the X has sailed and motored much faster than that. In fact, it was
recently stated on the Mac discussion group that the PHRF of the Mac 26x
has recently been lowered from over 200 to 135. If the boat is as slow
as you say, how did it get a PHRF of 135? (And if you should disagree
with this or if you want to question the accuracy of this statement,
give us a web site or reference sourses on which we can check out
whatever you claim it is.)

I may not have sailed one, but I've sailed by them a number of times. In a
small chop they bob around and don't move. The people on board wonder why all
the other boats are going by; it doesn't look like fun at all.

To my knowledge, and after extensive searching, no one who owns one of
the Mac 26M's has posted any comments of that nature. (If you know of
such a site, give me a link.) By contrast, the reports I have seen
regarding the 26M have been universally positive.



I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it to
flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it
offshore.


According to the manufacturer, their boat is designed for coastal
cruising. Which is what I intend to do.


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jeff Morris wrote:


Wow. Someone who just spent $32,000 claim they like the boat? What a

surprise!

People with actual experience with the company don't think its that much of

an

improvement. They must all be jealous.



And, you are suggesting that I speak with someone who hasn't sailed the
boat? Since no one on this ng has sailed the 26M, their opinions should
be given more weight than someone who has sailed the boat? No??? Then
who WOULD you accept as a reliable source? (To help you along, how
about: "those who are willing to bash the Mac decisively must, by
definition, know what they are talking about, even if they have never
even been near one." Is that about the size of it, Jeff?

Jim















You have a wonderful ability to rationalize, Jim. I suppose it makes life

easy.


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:



Yup. Now MacBoy has an unbiased opinion of a Mac ower turned
Hunter owner, who is definitely moving in the right direction.
So now MacBoy can *immediately* go sailing out on the ocean in
40kts wind. We'll all be waiting for your return... NOT.

I'm assuming that he was referring to the 26M model (the new boat?),
although it's not completely clear. As I understand the note, Ed didn't
actually sail the "new boat." So it's not really a very comprehensive
report, is it Johnathan?

By contrast, I happened to have had an extended discussion of the 26M
with an owner yesterday WHO HAD SAILED THE BOAT, under high wind and low
wind conditions. He was very pleased with its handling, and in contrast
with Ed, he thought the looks and interior of the boat were spectacular,
particularly for a boat in this price range. One thing I notice from
comments posted on the Mac discussion groups is that owners of the new
model like the new boat, whereas owners of the previous (26X) model
defend their own boats and pick fault with the new model, despite the
fact that few of them have ever sailed one. And since there are many
more owners of the 26X than owners of the 26M, the X owners are
predominate.

Jim

I bet he's even been to Arthur Treachers Fish & Chips.

SV

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
You could have sailed the boat yourself. I suppose the dealer told you
that is
not possible now because he doesn't have a demonstrator.

Or, you could listen to what owners say. You can find dozens of comments
that
the top speed under power in flat water to be 12-13 knots, and that it
could be
hard to get on a plane in a moderate chop. Yet you keep insisting you can
make
18 knots offshore.

I may not have sailed one, but I've sailed by them a number of times. In
a
small chop they bob around and don't move. The people on board wonder why
all
the other boats are going by; it doesn't look like fun at all.

I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer
it to
flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it
offshore.


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jeff Morris wrote:

Wow. Someone who just spent $32,000 claim they like the boat? What a
surprise!
People with actual experience with the company don't think its that
much of
an
improvement. They must all be jealous.



And, you are suggesting that I speak with someone who hasn't sailed the
boat? Since no one on this ng has sailed the 26M, their opinions should
be given more weight than someone who has sailed the boat? No??? Then
who WOULD you accept as a reliable source? (To help you along, how
about: "those who are willing to bash the Mac decisively must, by
definition, know what they are talking about, even if they have never
even been near one." Is that about the size of it, Jeff?

Jim














You have a wonderful ability to rationalize, Jim. I suppose it makes
life
easy.


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:


Yup. Now MacBoy has an unbiased opinion of a Mac ower turned
Hunter owner, who is definitely moving in the right direction.
So now MacBoy can *immediately* go sailing out on the ocean in
40kts wind. We'll all be waiting for your return... NOT.

I'm assuming that he was referring to the 26M model (the new boat?),
although it's not completely clear. As I understand the note, Ed
didn't
actually sail the "new boat." So it's not really a very comprehensive
report, is it Johnathan?

By contrast, I happened to have had an extended discussion of the 26M
with an owner yesterday WHO HAD SAILED THE BOAT, under high wind and
low
wind conditions. He was very pleased with its handling, and in
contrast
with Ed, he thought the looks and interior of the boat were
spectacular,
particularly for a boat in this price range. One thing I notice from
comments posted on the Mac discussion groups is that owners of the new
model like the new boat, whereas owners of the previous (26X) model
defend their own boats and pick fault with the new model, despite the
fact that few of them have ever sailed one. And since there are many
more owners of the 26X than owners of the 26M, the X owners are
predominate.

Jim

Jim Cate wrote:

According to the manufacturer, their boat is designed for cruising
100 miles offshore, in 80.55452 mph winds. Which is what I pretend
to do.

OzOne wrote:

On 14 Apr 2004 17:32:12 GMT, (Veridican) scribbled
thusly:

Jeff,

You say 25 knots is more like a jog in the park and 35 is survival conditions,
and then you say it's no big deal. 25 knots is 21 mph sustained. It's a force 6
wind. In a cruising boat, you should be in harnesses and reefed. In a dinghy
you shouldn't go out at all. I'm not saying it can't be fun, but don't make it
sound like it's a normal sailing experience. To use your own words, It's a jog
in the park.

The Veridican

You should come over to Oz or NZ where most summer breezes reach
25kts...every day!
Most performance dinghys revel in that weight, planing upwind and down
flying spinnakers to their benefit.

Oz1...of the 3 twins.

Hah! Including lakes too, waht's more!

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Sail where the crabs get blown out of the sand each summer's
afternoon!
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/mlakes.htm