If that was the plan, then when your friend showed up with his women you
should have spoken up and explained yopu were not prepared for non-sailors
and that there would be no facilities so therefore they should change their
plans and go to the beach or something...you are not obligated to
inconvenience your plans for others....by trying to be nice, you ended up
being a jerk....stop trying and just be yourself....
"Bart Senior" wrote in message
t...
Thanks Doug, The plan was "boys day out sailing".

George bailed out before we left the dock, and the girls invited
themselves along. I warned them. They were careful not to
drink any water either--they knew what they were getting into.

I didn't invite any ladies, just more experienced men. I wanted
to try out that new spinnaker-which turned out to be too big. My
first choice would have been to head upwind which would have
been a wet ride, followed by a deep broad reach back to test it
out. The Port Jeff option, I discussed early, including the time it
would take--about five hours, and I discussed the option of turning
around at Middle Ground--halfway. Fred was particularly keen to
get a response from the women--and one favored it--the other said
nothing--she wet her pants before we got to Middle Ground.

I gave my guests a good ride. Fred drove most of the day--he also
drove up from New Jersey to be there. I wanted him to see what
the boat was all about. Monica took the helm for a while also, and
did much of the sail trim. I didn't touch the helm all day and hardly
touched a sheet. I let them do what they wanted.

By the way, my "bucket" was a flexible Clorox bottle scoop. It's
perfect to **** in--for either sex. Part of being a sailor is being able
to use "the bucket". My 11 year old niece can do it.

"DSK" wrote

katysails wrote:

We've been chiding him on these points all year....he has probably
created
another "non-sailor"....

I think you're wronging Bart on several points. He wanted to go for a
sail, they wanted to go along. If Bart doesn't have a working head on
board, that's a bit of a barrier to longer sails with women on board...
but at least he tried...

DSK

"joe" wrote

Bart Senior wrote:

There is no such thing as "dry" on an Etchells.

That's why any experienced keelboat sailor would have brought along proper
clothing, and not have their butts soaked..

If it's warm waterproof shorts might be enough..

Nude sailing makes more sense.

"After a quick spin around the Port Jeff harbor, snip

Well, why couldn't you stop there and take a walk ashore to learn more? Or
maybe you are not confident in maneuvering your boat under sail well
enough
to enter and dock at new harbors..

It would have been fine with me, but everyone wanted to head back.

I like docking under sail--I learned to dock under sail when I was 9.
However,
there was little chance of finding dock space at PJ. My club has a mooring
over
there, but it is a mile from the town. I don't bring a dinghy for day
sailing, and
have no place for an outboard.

These are all great suggestions Joe. You should follow them yourself.

Bart, in reality, you are water and I am oil....I may figure out your
genius, but I doubt I'd ever appreciate it....

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
t...
In time, katy, you will come to appreciate my true genius.

LP, on the other hand, has no hope of ever comprehending me.

"katysails" wrote

Whoa there....I have never said that Bart is mean...misguided,
yes...mean...I don't think so....he just doesn't think in the right
direction sometimes....and he does have his good side....

"Lady Pilot" wrote in message
news:5k91d.44067$mu.31129@okepread07...

"Bart Senior" wrote:
I also enjoy sailing circles around other sailboats. When I'm
feeling
particularly mean, I do it twice to rub it in. : )

I find you particularly mean to women. I agree with everything
Katysails
has said about you...

LP

75 degrees isn't warm enough for nude sailing....

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
t...

"joe" wrote

Bart Senior wrote:

There is no such thing as "dry" on an Etchells.

That's why any experienced keelboat sailor would have brought along
proper
clothing, and not have their butts soaked..

If it's warm waterproof shorts might be enough..

Nude sailing makes more sense.

"After a quick spin around the Port Jeff harbor, snip

Well, why couldn't you stop there and take a walk ashore to learn more?
Or
maybe you are not confident in maneuvering your boat under sail well
enough
to enter and dock at new harbors..

It would have been fine with me, but everyone wanted to head back.

I like docking under sail--I learned to dock under sail when I was 9.
However,
there was little chance of finding dock space at PJ. My club has a
mooring
over
there, but it is a mile from the town. I don't bring a dinghy for day
sailing, and
have no place for an outboard.

These are all great suggestions Joe. You should follow them yourself.

katysails wrote:
If that was the plan, then when your friend showed up with his women you
should have spoken up and explained yopu were not prepared for non-sailors
and that there would be no facilities so therefore they should change their
plans and go to the beach or something...you are not obligated to
inconvenience your plans for others....by trying to be nice, you ended up
being a jerk....stop trying and just be yourself....

Fixing the head would be a good option too...

For some years we kept spare foul weather gear aboard... not the real
good stuff, but adequate for unprepared guests for most weather. We had
one friend show up with one of those K-mart ponchos and insisted he was
OK with that... man did he ever get soaked!

I don't agree that Bart should have changed his plans for guests he
wasn't even expecting. What were his obligations to them? American women
are too spoiled, they expect to be catered to for no reason.

But OTOH it is a good idea to show newbies that sailing is fun... they
can find out about the torture part later! Bart, you may have chased
away potential future crew.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Uh...DOug...I said he shouldn't have changed his plans for them...should
have sent them home...and they were not American women...and since when does
an Etchell's have a head to fix???? I thought they were open daysailors....
"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
katysails wrote:
If that was the plan, then when your friend showed up with his women you
should have spoken up and explained yopu were not prepared for
non-sailors
and that there would be no facilities so therefore they should change
their
plans and go to the beach or something...you are not obligated to
inconvenience your plans for others....by trying to be nice, you ended
up
being a jerk....stop trying and just be yourself....

Fixing the head would be a good option too...

For some years we kept spare foul weather gear aboard... not the real
good stuff, but adequate for unprepared guests for most weather. We had
one friend show up with one of those K-mart ponchos and insisted he was
OK with that... man did he ever get soaked!

I don't agree that Bart should have changed his plans for guests he
wasn't even expecting. What were his obligations to them? American women
are too spoiled, they expect to be catered to for no reason.

But OTOH it is a good idea to show newbies that sailing is fun... they
can find out about the torture part later! Bart, you may have chased
away potential future crew.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

No....but courtesy and politely informing them that this was not the trip
for them was a necessity....Guys I've sailed with have been quite blunt
about it....
OzOne wrote in message ...
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:58:16 GMT, "katysails"
scribbled thusly:

Uh...DOug...I said he shouldn't have changed his plans for them...should
have sent them home...and they were not American women...and since when
does
an Etchell's have a head to fix???? I thought they were open
daysailors....

so a head isn't necessary ;-)


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

DSK wrote:

Yes it's a great efficient rig. But how about something like a
screecher or Code Zero? Would it be possible to gain enough speed
through the water to make up for the low pointing?


Nav wrote:

No, I don't think so -an idea demonstrated by IACC racing. Think about
the apparent wind shifting as speed rises.


I don't think so either, but it would be fun to check it out. Expensve,
tho'...

... The key to good upwind performace is the lift drag ratio.


True enough, but the best combined angles are in constant flux. Plus,
the Etchells has much lower aspect ratio rig & foils than an IACC boat.
It's not a good starting point for generalizing. There *might* be some
cases where big light high camber head sail like a screecher or Code 0
might give faster VMG... it would almost certainly be too specialized a
case to be worth pursuing though.

Some boats carry this type of sail all around the course. A few years
back I watched some Windrider Raves (a small foil riding trimaran)
racing, the ones equipped with screechers carried them up wind, much
faster at a lower angle, and beat the ones without quite handily.


That'll be foils not performing at low speed?

Cheers

Kook! Now you behave. He can't help being a gyandromorph.

Cheers

katysails wrote:

Didn't know they made bras that big......

"Horvath" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:27:16 +1000, OzOne wrote this crap:


IIRC, you can use a spinnaker to sail upwind but must not tack with
it.

What do you know? I always use a spinnaker upwind, and also two
bloopers. One on each side.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

a grandmamorph?

"Nav" wrote in message
...
Kook! Now you behave. He can't help being a gyandromorph.

Cheers

katysails wrote:

Didn't know they made bras that big......

"Horvath" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:27:16 +1000, OzOne wrote this crap:


IIRC, you can use a spinnaker to sail upwind but must not tack with
it.

What do you know? I always use a spinnaker upwind, and also two
bloopers. One on each side.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!