tom wrote:

I don't mean to flog a dead horse, so I'll close this with a thank
you, but
I was looking for action/s which would either prevent a knockdown at
the time circumstances are causing such; or if knocked down: action/s
which can limit the severity of the knockdown. ...

That's what I just said: Take the jibsheet around the winch, uncleated if
neccessary, with the free end in the crew's hand. If the crew is on the
ball, it can be eased instantly and the knockdown won't be so severe to
begin with.


... We are probably right in
our assumption; however, such is qualified by the fact that it seems
almost impossible to uncleat the jib sheet from the high side when a
knockdown occurs, and it still isn't easy when one grasps the sheet
mere inches from the cleating mechanism.

Then isn't that an issue that needs to be addressed? Maybe the cleat needs
to be repositioned, or maybe a different crew movement would make it easier.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

"tom" wrote in message
om...

I don't mean to flog a dead horse, so I'll close this with a thank
you, but
I was looking for action/s which would either prevent a knockdown at
the time circumstances are causing such; or if knocked down: action/s
which can limit the severity of the knockdown.

I think that it is very difficult for many people to give sensible advice
because we sail very different boats.

For example, I cannot imagine what it is like to sail a boat(other than a
small dinghy) that doesn't use a winch for the jib sheet.


Obviously, there are a
number of things we could have done to prevent a knockdown, such as
reefing the main more and furling the jib before we went out on the
water; however, that's hindsight.

You may have answered your own question.

A few weeks ago we set out with the genoa completely furled. The wind was
blowing at 25 - 30 kts - on the nose, and I felt that it might be more out
on the water. I decided that a 3/4's furled jib would be next to useless
in such conditions - so we left it completely furled up. After we had
endured 40+Kts for 5 minutes, I was glad that the genoa was completely
furled.



Prior to the knockdown we both were
of the opinion that releasing/easing the main and jib sheets was
sufficient action to largely control heeling. We are probably right in
our assumption; however, such is qualified by the fact that it seems
almost impossible to uncleat the jib sheet from the high side when a
knockdown occurs, and it still isn't easy when one grasps the sheet
mere inches from the cleating mechanism.

Without knowing the layout of your boat, it is difficult to form an opinion.
I am still unable to picture a scenario where a sheet would be restrained by
a winch and a cam-cleat. I think that you either took your boat beyond its
design limits, or you should have had the sheet wrapped around a winch.



Once again, thanks to all who offered an opinion.

Back to intermittent lurk status

Please don't lurk! This is a sailing ng - we need sailing questions!!!!




Thanks

Donal
--

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
This from a guy pretending to be a dyke.


Jonathan, you're a bit confused about these matters.

It's understandable ... you live in SF.




Regards

Donal
--

Sorry, but I don't live in SF. Does that me clear-minded?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
This from a guy pretending to be a dyke.


Jonathan, you're a bit confused about these matters.

It's understandable ... you live in SF.




Regards

Donal
--

Thom Stewart wrote:
Tom,

There are a lot of things I'm not sure of in your question? Are you
using self tailing winches? Is your main and traveler center boom or
end?

It sounds like he released the main from the Cabin top. If that was the
case, then you probably should have been easing INTO the wind enough to
keep the hull under you but still be making headway while he adjusted
the jib sheet.

The helm should start getting heavy (weather helm) as you heel. When
this happens it is time to start adjusting sail trim. You want some
weather helm (About 15 degrees)

The easiest and fastest way to release air is with the helm, into the
wind and then sail adjustments.

Agreed, and Oz1 suggested this too but it is also something that
requires good judgement & skill by the helmsman, and furthermore it may
not be an option due to traffic, depth, etc etc.

For example, it's not uncommon in a heavy gust... or a gust accomanied
by a big lift... to be momentarily overpowered and have the boat slow
and the rudder flirt with stalling... if you're trying to feather into
it at this point, you may spin out or even do a zippy auto-tack... bad news!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

OzOne wrote:
A set and forget jib......wonderful.
What do you do when the wind freshens and the jib needs sheeting in?

He's got one of those "magic bungie" cored jib sheets, it automatically
pulls itself in


DSK

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Sorry, but I don't live in SF. Does that me clear-minded?


Absolutely!

Does that everybody else confuddled?



Regards


Donal
--

Left.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Sorry, but I don't live in SF. Does that me clear-minded?


Absolutely!

Does that everybody else confuddled?



Regards


Donal
--

"tom" wrote
I was recently on a 21 footer with my son-in-law at the till cruising
along fairly well with 25-30 knot winds when he noticed we were
heading into an area of additional wind. While alerting me, he
disengaged the mainsheet and when we rolled he let it fly. The roll
took us over nearly 90 degrees and we shipped water over the coaming 6
to 10 inches in depth.

I used to sail rental boats that size on a bay surrounded by many tall
buildings just inland of the ocean. Often, I'd be on a tight tack when I'd
pass gap between buildings and get knocked down to the point of having water
over the coaming and in the belly of the sail. With little assist from the
tiller, the boat itself would head up into the wind, right itself, and sit
there luffing the water out of its sails. Scared the crap out of me the
first time but it became commonplace until I learned to read the wind from
ripples on the water. Naturally YMMV.

When sailing off the SF city front, we use the long avenues as predictors of
where to find small puffs of wind. It's great fun.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"tom" wrote
I was recently on a 21 footer with my son-in-law at the till cruising
along fairly well with 25-30 knot winds when he noticed we were
heading into an area of additional wind. While alerting me, he
disengaged the mainsheet and when we rolled he let it fly. The roll
took us over nearly 90 degrees and we shipped water over the coaming 6
to 10 inches in depth.

I used to sail rental boats that size on a bay surrounded by many tall
buildings just inland of the ocean. Often, I'd be on a tight tack when I'd
pass gap between buildings and get knocked down to the point of having
water
over the coaming and in the belly of the sail. With little assist from the
tiller, the boat itself would head up into the wind, right itself, and sit
there luffing the water out of its sails. Scared the crap out of me the
first time but it became commonplace until I learned to read the wind from
ripples on the water. Naturally YMMV.