what are the long term accomplishments
or will you again automatically assume a defensive posture

I guess this is just a dead issue since you won't acknowledge two basic facts.

1) Hillary doesn't have a long record as a public servant. She's only been a
senator for a short time.
2) She's a Jr. senator and she basically operates beneath Charles Schumer who
generally calls the shots.

These two points completely dismantle your position.

RB

Testimony of Governor George E. Pataki

You might ask Pete Seeger what he thinks of Pataki. Pataki has defended large
companies who were cited for massive dumping again and again. For a long time
(and it's still pending) he looked the other way while GE refused to pay for
cleanup of the worst spill in the areas history. But Pataki seeks federal
assist? It's a damn crime. At least Hillary and Schumer have been vocal about
it.
It might also interest you to know that my father is a naturalist (for 45
years) who worked to fight these companies and people like Pataki. And I myself
worked for the NY Zoological Society dept of Ed. for a while. I actually know
the real stories. E-mail me offline if you'd like to hear the awful GE spill
story and how the whole LIS bed is layered with poison for miles.

RB

Bob,
you've been hanging out on this NG too long
a question does not constitute a position.
the question still stands.
gf

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
what are the long term accomplishments
or will you again automatically assume a defensive posture

I guess this is just a dead issue since you won't acknowledge two basic
facts.

1) Hillary doesn't have a long record as a public servant. She's only been
a
senator for a short time.
2) She's a Jr. senator and she basically operates beneath Charles Schumer
who
generally calls the shots.

These two points completely dismantle your position.

RB

yes you are correct.
I also spend a great deal of time on the sound. (with the exception of this
year) and it is a big deal.
Are these the lawsuits that were filed against some municpalities?
if they were and if my memory serves me, they also included parts of CT?
if i am not mistaken, i believe it was Spitzer that brought the lawsuits,
perhaps under pressure from Clinton/Schumer.........not sure.

my understanding is that part of the problem involves under designed (for
current population) storm facilities. these are not accidents. they are
delibrate. this i can prove (offline)

"Accidental Dumping"
in most towns and cities here, we have combined storm and sewer systems,
something which is no longer permitted (at least in westchester for new
development--FACT) when we have severe rainfall, the storm water overwhelms
the treatment facilities and they are currently forced to handle the
capacity by dumping.
it is a physical reality and limitation of an old world.

Westchester County has and is making rreal strides in adressing what it can
and has in place something known as "best water management pratices"
there are cumbersome and "complex" proceedural measures in place.
these days every muncipality that i have dealt with, enforces this.
this was not so until recently. it's focus is primarily storm water, flood
plains, sewer and septic. i am only famalair with it as it relates to
building development.........but i believe it involves corrective measures
as well.

as related to Hillary: the lawsuits are perhaps a first step, but they will
not prevent any further "accidents" unless Federal, State and Local $$ are
provided to update facilites. the dollars involved are far more than any of
these localities can handle. it is a complex problem.

not withstanding her stature as a Jr. Senator............her process and
vision is admirable but incomplete and there are many people that have done
far more than her in protecting the waters of NY. The Lobster Fisherman are
but one example of a more effective and complete process. and they aren't
even Jr. Senators, just a bunch of guys with boats and a livelyhood to
protect.

gf.





Dumping on the sound has been a problem every year with the same old
"accident"
story. Hillary was so vocal about it that something finally happened and
real
suits were filed. Since I spend a great deal of the summer sailing this is
not
a small issue to me. I don't imagine it would be small for you either.

RB

i'd ask Ole Pete, but i lost his phone #, haven't seen him on the train in a
long time. and the last time i was aboard the Clearwater Sloop, he was not
there.

if you are referring to the Hudson River PCB issue: there are arguably very
real reasons for not disturbing the material at the bottom of the river.

not withstanding GE: (who should be held accountable) work that needs to be
done cannot be done( for the most part) without federal money. it is beyond
the reach of local government. this is not only about commerical ventures
gone bad, it is also about an antiquated infrastructure and a population
base that has swelled.

The point of what i posted was two-fold.
first: hillary is not the only one concerned about the sound. there are and
have been many others, republican and democrat.
and frankly some of the most effective efforts have been by those outside of
government...........
she deserves credit for what she has done as a Jr. Senator. not more or less
and preferably in context. ( a word i'm afraid is disappearing from the
current politcal scene)

Pataki found funding to correct severe "structural" issues.
this has value for you as well.
Nothing to do with GE, which is a seperate debate.

my post had nothing to do with defending pataki.........and hopefully you
may begin to get the point that while i remain engaged and interested in
what is happening, i prefer no government.....not republican,
democrat,,,,,,or nader for that matter.

Since they are here to stay, I just use em for whatever value they have,
appreciate them for their service when it happens and vote as i see fit.

so in the end the defense of democrats and bashing of republicans means very
little to me.

gf.




"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Testimony of Governor George E. Pataki

You might ask Pete Seeger what he thinks of Pataki. Pataki has defended
large
companies who were cited for massive dumping again and again. For a long
time
(and it's still pending) he looked the other way while GE refused to pay
for
cleanup of the worst spill in the areas history. But Pataki seeks federal
assist? It's a damn crime. At least Hillary and Schumer have been vocal
about
it.
It might also interest you to know that my father is a naturalist (for 45
years) who worked to fight these companies and people like Pataki. And I
myself
worked for the NY Zoological Society dept of Ed. for a while. I actually
know
the real stories. E-mail me offline if you'd like to hear the awful GE
spill
story and how the whole LIS bed is layered with poison for miles.

RB

if you are referring to the Hudson River PCB issue: there are arguably very
real reasons for not disturbing the material at the bottom of the river.


Good lord!!! The ole' "lets not stir up the bottom" issue direct from GE's own
team!!! The truth is that technology exists to remove the spill, but it's
horribly expensive for the company. I guess they should have to do it then,
right?

RB

ot withstanding GE: (who should be held accountable) work that needs to be
done cannot be done( for the most part) without federal money.


GE has the moneys to fix thr problem. They wouldn't be ruined either. They
simply want to keep that money. That's what companies do.

RB

first: hillary is not the only one concerned about the sound. there are and
have been many others, republican and democrat.


Excuse me, but YOU are the one who questioned what she had done. Now that you
have some examples you are saying it doesn't count because people are also
fighting the good fight.
Give me a break! The only question that remains is one about her "long term
service" when the woman has only been a senator for a short while!
Give it up, bub.

RB

Well first of all you have to look at the context of the issue.

New York had no one suitable and hired a professional outsider from
Arkansas. Pay mercenary wages you get mercenary results.

Second the word "river". Should she support that the leap from Hudson to
White is not a far stretch, something she doesn't want the pubic reminded
about.

Third, as Congressman At Large (the proper term for what used to be
Senators) New York to her is no different than was Arkansas, a stepping
stone...to be stepped on, pushed into the mud, and then left behind.

However she remains, at present the only choice the Democrats have now due
solely to a media perceived 'stature', having actually slept or whatever in
the White House, and of course being a woman has not military service
baggage to live down.

Ergo.....Hillary in 2008. It ain't rockitscience.

Now the Republicans have a much larger problem they are startingfrom
scratch....or are they? A Veep after all only serves two purposes. Get
votes for the Prez and make him assassination proof. Gore, Edwards and
whatshisname from ....where was it a case in point (the one who was veep
under Bush Senior). So discounting the myth that Veeps have presidential
qualities Hillary may very well be facing Powell or someone of similar
stature.

I'm lovin' it!

M.




"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
first: hillary is not the only one concerned about the sound. there are
and
have been many others, republican and democrat.


Excuse me, but YOU are the one who questioned what she had done. Now that
you
have some examples you are saying it doesn't count because people are also
fighting the good fight.
Give me a break! The only question that remains is one about her "long
term
service" when the woman has only been a senator for a short while!
Give it up, bub.

RB

that is correct.
i questioned what she has done.

no i did not say it does not count.
i said: it is what it is.

this is called objectivety

congratulations!
and you have demonstrated she has not done very much, with the excuse being
she is a jr. senator and not in office for very long.
if that logic is valid, then it follows that bush has only been pres. for 4
years (not a very long time) and we should not old him accountable for lack
of accomplishements.
but we wouldn't do that now would we.

and at the same time some will be ready to send her to the white house
go figure.

context bob
context.

spin
spin
spin

gf.


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
first: hillary is not the only one concerned about the sound. there are
and
have been many others, republican and democrat.


Excuse me, but YOU are the one who questioned what she had done. Now that
you
have some examples you are saying it doesn't count because people are also
fighting the good fight.
Give me a break! The only question that remains is one about her "long
term
service" when the woman has only been a senator for a short while!
Give it up, bub.

RB