Hillary In 2008
 

help us all
on the positive side, she'll be out of NY, where she has not done a damn
thing of value.
gf.

help us all
on the positive side, she'll be out of NY, where she has not done a damn
thing of value.

She's a Jr. Senator for CS. What exactly do you expect her to do? Are you even
aware of her heavy campaigning to stop dumping into the LIS after Bush cut
fines against it? We had the usual 3 "accidental" spills into the sound this
year. Only Hillary and Schumer were trying to do anything about it.

RB

was there some other senator besides hillary and chuck that should have been
doing something about it?
what was accomplished?

of all the bills she has presented to the 108th congress, can you please
point to her accompliushements, relative to NY.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery

it appears for the year 2003 one of her few successful bills out of 138
atempts, is as follows:



10. S.RES.377 : A resolution congratulating the Le Moyne College Dolphins
men's lacrosse team on winning the 2004 NCAA Division II men's lacrosse
National Championship.
Sponsor: Sen Clinton, Hillary Rodham [NY] (introduced 6/14/2004)
Cosponsors (1)
Latest Major Action: 6/14/2004 Passed/agreed to in Senate. Status:
Submitted in the Senate, considered, and agreed to without amendment and
with a preamble by Unanimous Consent.


and the infactuation with the post office stamps: what the heck is that
about.


on a positve note: another was for 4million dollars for mental health
treatment related to 9/11.

gf




She's a Jr. Senator for CS. What exactly do you expect her to do? Are you
even
aware of her heavy campaigning to stop dumping into the LIS after Bush cut
fines against it? We had the usual 3 "accidental" spills into the sound
this
year. Only Hillary and Schumer were trying to do anything about it.

RB

"gonefishiing" wrote


on a positve note: another was for 4million dollars for mental
health
treatment

no wonder boob likes her.

was there some other senator besides hillary and chuck that should have been
doing something about it?
what was accomplished?


Hillary took it up with Eliot Spitzer, who is now after them. She actually
directly prevented a 4 spill when some outfit claimed they couldn't prevent it.
She shut them down with a court order.
You said she did nothing, but Hillary is a major environmental advocate who's
already protected the waters you sail in.
I'm sorry if you don't see this as "doing something."
In addition to that, she's added considerable fund raising punch to Schumer's
plans to revitalize aspects of children's services.

RB

ok again: was some other senator supposedly to do her job?
LONG TERM: what was accomplished?

138 bills presented in one year!
with few (very few) successful attempts
how about one or two that are worth the paper they are written on,
instead of the steady barrage presented to congress with a fair precentage
of them withdrawn.
this would require someone with clear thought and focus

advocates are great. accomplishments are better.
i am an advocate for many things
for a cleaner environment as well.
for children (who the hell isn't)
yet being an advocate does not consitute a good senator. junior or
otherwise.
Pete Seeger is an advocate, far more succesful than hillary by a long shot
far more interesting.

the vast majority of the bills (the important ones) concerning the
environment were not sponsered by her, she simply joined the coattails of
other senators. the rest were for postage stamps and the like.
this is an interesting strategy if you think about it.
no responsiblity when it fails.

Eliot Spitzer is "after her" simply because he has his eye on pataki's
office and can use all the democratic support he can get

yes she has worked some on the rights of children and deserves credit for
this (somewhat misguided) effort.

on another note: there is a signifcant development project underway near me.
She has shown up for all the Photo Ops and claimed responsibilty for the
"funding".
want to venture a guess: the funding is not in place. the project has come
to a halt.
fine "representation" don't you think
more smoke screens.



"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
was there some other senator besides hillary and chuck that should have
been
doing something about it?
what was accomplished?


Hillary took it up with Eliot Spitzer, who is now after them. She actually
directly prevented a 4 spill when some outfit claimed they couldn't
prevent it.
She shut them down with a court order.
You said she did nothing, but Hillary is a major environmental advocate
who's
already protected the waters you sail in.
I'm sorry if you don't see this as "doing something."
In addition to that, she's added considerable fund raising punch to
Schumer's
plans to revitalize aspects of children's services.

RB

ok again: was some other senator supposedly to do her job?
LONG TERM: what was accomplished?


Hillary is a Jr. Senator. Do you know what that is? As a Jr. Senator, Hillary
has worked with Charles Schumer and aided in much of his work. You notice that
Schumer is a pretty popular guy and Hillary works hand in hand with him.
As for directly aiding you, she has worked hard on environmental factors in NY.
Don't you care about that?

RB

advocates are great. accomplishments are better.
i am an advocate for many things
for a cleaner environment as well.
for children (who the hell isn't)

As I said, Hillary was behind shutting down additional dumping on the LIS.
That's apart from Schumer.
She's brought in additional funding for children's programs. In fact, the
Queens activity center in my neighborhood was brought back to life by Hillary.
Sorry, you just don't know the facts on Hillary. Then again it does not appear
that your are aware of limited capacity of a Jr. Senator. Hillary is more
active than most.

RB

Pete Seeger is an advocate, far more succesful than hillary by a long shot
far more interesting.


Pete Seeger hasn't done anything for local schools, but then I don't expect him
to. Pete Seeger supported and continues to support Hillary, BTW. They co-hosted
several environmental rallies.

RB

the vast majority of the bills (the important ones) concerning the
environment were not sponsered by her, she simply joined the coattails of
other senators.

Sorry, you're dead wrong. Hillary has played a major part in cleaning up the
LIS, even beyond what Schumer was getting done on his own. Her profile renewed
legal action against companies who were dumping.
I see that you don't like her, but it does not appear to be founded on facts.

RB

yes she has worked some on the rights of children and deserves credit for
this (somewhat misguided) effort.

I doubt the reopened children centers are misguided. And I seriously doubt
parents in those areas will agree with you.

RB

want to venture a guess: the funding is not in place. the project has come
to a halt.
fine "representation" don't you think
more smoke screens.

A lot of valid projects get stalled. Happens all the time. Doesn't always mean
bad politics. Good intentions don't always bring good results.

RB

"Bobsprit" wrote
....., she has worked hard on environmental factors in NY.

So has Osama bin Ladin. Eliminated one of the biggest eyesores in the city
and what -2500 - polluters.

No i am not "dead wrong"
look at the summary of bills presented to congress. I stated clearly
...........read again if you need.
do you know what enviromental bills were presented and by whom?
do you know which ones were past into legislation?

i have not denied she is involved.
in fact i stated something to the effect that she presented 138 pieces of
potential legislation.

i believe she is mostly ineffective

what i dislike is the misrepresentation of facts and the twisting of
statements to suit an argument.

as to your comment, i see that you do appear to like her and are not swayed
by facts



"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
the vast majority of the bills (the important ones) concerning the
environment were not sponsered by her, she simply joined the coattails of
other senators.

Sorry, you're dead wrong. Hillary has played a major part in cleaning up
the
LIS, even beyond what Schumer was getting done on his own. Her profile
renewed
legal action against companies who were dumping.
I see that you don't like her, but it does not appear to be founded on
facts.

RB

in fact i stated something to the effect that she presented 138 pieces of
potential legislation.

i believe she is mostly ineffective

Again you ignore facts. It seems to be your favorite mode. Hillary is a JR.
Sen. You might want to investigate others with the same job. They generally
don't do 1/10th of what she does. Should she become a senator I'd expect her to
raise the bar in that position as well. Jr. Senators are rarely heard from at
all and generally don't shake the tree's of big business. Again, you said she
did nothing. I proved otherwise. You said she's ineffective and I pointed out
that she's only a Jr. Senator. You've simply ignore what I've said so it suits
your position. I'm afraid I'll agree with Bill on this one. She's a powerful
woman and smart. That scares a lot guys.

RB

what i dislike is the misrepresentation of facts and the twisting of
statements to suit an argument.

I pointed out that she limited dumping in OUR LIS sailing grounds. I pointed
out that she was a major player in reopening several children's centers.
Please let me know when you see a twisted fact. What's twisted is your effort
to ignore what she has done, what she's tried to do and that she's only a Jr.
Senator who's learning the ropes.

RB

you're responses do not answer the questions posted.

in regards to LIS, you are correct. i do not know the facts of her effort.
you're other assumption is wrong: of course i am interested in what happens
in LIS.

so rather than state one more time that i don't care.
why not just try to respond to the two relatively simple questions ?

you keep saying wonderfully fanatastic things in regards to her actions
relative to long island sound
so far i understand there is/was a judges order to prevent another dumping
of sewage(?)
what are the long term accomplishments
or will you again automatically assume a defensive posture which will leave
us driving in circles for another lap around the course of reason?


PS: if nothing else, read the 1st paragraph

Testimony of Governor George E. Pataki

before the

Subcommittee on Water Resources and Environment

February 29, 2000

Chairman Boehlert and members of the House Water Resources Subcommittee, I
am pleased to be here with Governor Rowland, and I thank you for providing
me with this opportunity to talk to you about some of New York State's
efforts to protect and improve one of the premier estuaries in the Nation --
Long Island Sound. While New York is proud of the progress we have made to
restore the Sound's water quality, federal assistance is greatly needed to
fulfill our commitment to the Sound.

Specifically, I would like to express my strong support for H.R. 3313, the
Long Island Sound Restoration Act introduced by Congressman Lazio and
Congresswoman Johnson.

Overview of Long Island Sound Activities

Long Island Sound is the home to many. For centuries, people have been
attracted to its wide, sandy beaches, blue waters, and abundant natural
resources. More than eight million people live in the Long Island Sound
watershed - a staggering number for a resource whose fragility was
recognized only after serious environmental problems were discovered in the
Sound.

The economy and environment of the Sound are intertwined as well: research
commissioned by the Long Island Sound Study estimated that about $5 billion
is generated annually in the regional economy from boating, commercial and
port fishing, swimming, and beachgoing. Cargo shipping, ferry transportation
and power generation also are important uses of the Sound.

Indeed, millions flock to the Sound each year to enjoy its diverse and
beautiful natural resources, while vital industries make it their home base.
Long Island Sound is a classic example of the vital interplay between the
environment and the economy.

With the uses it serves and the recreational opportunities it provides, Long
Island Sound is among the most important estuaries in the Nation.

We have long known, however, that the Sound is troubled. Since the 1980's,
hypoxia - low dissolved oxygen - has emerged as an issue of great concern in
Long Island Sound. Without sufficient levels of oxygen, marine life moves
out of the area or suffocates. Simply put, without oxygen, we will not have
lobster, crab, shrimp, or other aquatic organisms in the waters of Long
Island Sound.

Through careful scientific analysis, it has been determined that sewage
treatment plants in New York and Connecticut contribute significantly to
this tremendous threat to the Sound's aquatic life through the nitrogen
loading to the Sound. Toxic contamination, pathogens, and floatable debris
also are significant threats to the Sound's aquatic and economic health.

To study and address these problems, the Long Island Sound Study (LISS) was
created in 1985. In 1988, the Sound also was declared an estuary of national
significance under the Environmental Protection Agency's National Estuary
Program (NEP). These actions brought important federal technical and
financial support to the Sound, helping us to protect it for future
generations.

Resulting from these designations, a Comprehensive Conservation and
Management Plan (CCMP) for Long Island Sound was approved. To demonstrate my
strong commitment to the Sound, along with Governor Rowland, I reaffirmed
this Plan in 1996. The plan is being implemented as a blueprint to improve
the health of the estuary while ensuring compatible human uses within the
Sound ecosystem.

New York's Financial Commitment to the Sound

New York's commitment to the Sound took shape immediately after my
reaffirmation of the CCMP, when the voters of New York State approved the
$1.75 billion Clean Water/Clean Air Bond Act in 1996. This Bond Act
dedicated $200 million in State funds to the restoration of the Sound - more
than is available for any other water body in the State of New York.
Already, these funds are being put to work.

In addition, we have:

a.. Modified discharge permits to ensure no net increase in discharges
of nitrogen above the levels that existed in 1990, and even reduced
discharges in Westchester, Nassau and Suffolk Counties to an aggregate level
of 85% of 1990 discharges. We are working to reduce nitrogen levels even
further;
b.. Provided funds to construct nitrogen control and nitrogen removal
projects in Westchester, Nassau and Suffolk Counties; and
c.. Made substantial progress to reduce nitrogen discharges in New York
City. Results for calendar year 1999 indicate that discharges were at or
below 1990 levels on an annual basis. New York City also has completed a
Nitrogen Control Feasibility Study which indicates that it will cost at
least $583 million to upgrade sewage treatment facilities in the upper East
River.
Progress has also been made in other areas. Dry weather overflows from
combined sewers have been virtually eliminated. A total of 40 percent of the
rainfall-induced runoff in New York City is captured and treated, along with
70 percent of floatable materials, while the discharge of eight heavy metals
has been reduced by over 50%. All of these efforts respond to commitments
made in the CCMP to reduce nitrogen inputs to Long Island Sound, thus
lessening hypoxia problems and preserving the Sound's aquatic environment.

The State and local governments committed substantial sums to implement
these actions. Already, New York City has spent more than $40 million to
reduce its discharges of harmful pollutants into the Sound, and an
additional $1.5 billion is estimated for combined sewer overflow control
projects over the next 10 years. Westchester County is committed to
activities to protect the Sound that will cost over $20 million.

Clean Water/Clean Air Bond Act Projects

In recognition of the need for funds to implement these and other projects
to protect and restore Long Island Sound, on February 17th, I announced $50
million in Clean Water/Clean Air Bond Act grants to local governments for
specific water quality improvement projects on the Sound. To date, including
these funds, I have made more than $84 million in Bond Act funds available
for 71 specific water quality improvement projects in communities along the
Sound.

These projects demonstrate New York's unwavering commitment to cleaning up
and protecting the waters of the Sound, restoring its aquatic resources and
fisheries, and ensuring its productivity as an environmental, economic and
recreational asset.

These grants - all of which are consistent with the CCMP for the Sound -
will improve wastewater treatment, control non-point sources of pollution,
and restore aquatic habitats. Among these projects is a grant of $30.8
million to New York City to upgrade the Hunts Point Water Pollution Control
Plant, one of the largest sources of nitrogen to Western Long Island Sound.
With this funding, the City will reconstruct the plant's main facilities to
increase its capacity during storms. The City also will install new
equipment at the plant to reduce the amount of nitrogen discharged from it
into the East River and the Sound.

Public Access to the Sound

Because of the remarkable progress we have made to restore Long Island
Sound, it's time to give New Yorkers an opportunity to enjoy it. We know
that only a few major public access facilities, including two state parks,
give New Yorkers the kind of access this improved water resource attracts.
The public input that helped produced the Long Island Sound Coastal
Management Plan and the Long Island Sound Study showed us clearly that,
right now, access is lacking.

In the State of the State address I delivered in January, I committed that,
within this decade, New York will establish at least 10 new Sound access
sites on Long Island, Westchester, Queens and the Bronx. We have begun this
effort, and are developing a new Nissequogue River State Park to be opened
officially this summer.

This commitment to access is a multi agency undertaking that will be
accomplished through acquisition and enhancement of existing facilities.
These facilities will be operated either directly by the State or through
partnerships with local governments. New beaches, fishing access, boat
launches, open space, transient docks and public waterfronts are goals of
this undertaking to deliver what has only been talked about in the past. I
have committed $25 million in this investment in our New York quality of
life.

Commercial Fishery Failure for Long Island Lobster Industry

Last year on December 9th, Governor Rowland and I each had the dubious
distinction of asking Commerce Secretary Daley for federal assistance to
help the crippled Long Island Sound lobster industry. While I am grateful
that Secretary Daley has concurred with this need, I am troubled by the
die-off of so many of the Sound's lobsters, and I am concerned about the
economic loss faced by the lobstermen, their families, and others affected
by this fishery disaster. I have requested $15 million in federal funds to
help us to respond to this commercial fishery failure, and I urge your
support for this proposal.

We do not yet know with certainty the cause of the lobster die-off. The
State rarely has faced such a serious problem in its marine fishery, and I
hope that we never will again.

The best insurance that we can have against another commercial fishery
failure is the restoration of Long Island Sound's aquatic ecosystems. This
can happen best with federal support. Unfortunately, the failure of the
lobster fishery may have given us another critical justification of the need
for the federal government to commit its share of funds to implement the
CCMP and help us to restore the Sound.

Need for Federal Financial Support

Tremendous technical and financial commitments have been made by the State
of New York, which have resulted in great progress. We recognize and
appreciate as well the significant resources which Connecticut has made
available. But the states, acting together, cannot and should not provide
all of the funds to restore the Sound.

Through its commitment to the Long Island Sound Study and the National
Estuary Program, the federal government has demonstrated its concurrence
that Long Island Sound is an estuary of national importance. The federal
technical support and limited level of financial support which are provided
through these designations has proven this commitment, albeit in a more
modest fashion than we would desire.

The CCMP which Governor Rowland and I have endorsed - along with the Clinton
Administration - requires many complex and costly actions to eliminate the
varied causes of pollution to the Sound. The CCMP is our vision, and the
funds dedicated by both states are the most vital tools to implement this
vision. Through the efforts made by the states, already we have demonstrated
clearly that the pollution problems faced by the Sound can be addressed
effectively. But given the Sound's national importance and national
benefits, a significant commitment of federal funds is essential to the full
implementation of the CCMP, and is justified by federal endorsement of the
recommendations made in this Plan.

A year ago, I spoke before this Subcommittee, and recommended the
introduction of legislation to authorize federal funds to help New York and
Connecticut to restore Long Island Sound. This recommendation has taken form
as H.R. 3313. Enactment of this legislation is vitally needed to demonstrate
that the federal government will match the commitment of New York and
Connecticut to the restoration of Long Island Sound, and I applaud
Congressman Lazio and Congresswoman Johnson for their vision in introducing
this tremendous measure. I urge you now to pass this measure quickly, as a
decisive endorsement of full federal support for the restoration of Long
Island Sound.

Other Clean Water Infrastructure Needs

While enactment of H.R. 3313 is necessary to direct federal funds
specifically toward Long Island Sound, I also want to endorse the December
16, 1999 letter which the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee
sent to President Clinton on the need for additional funds for water
infrastructure initiatives such as wastewater treatment, wet weather flows,
and nonpoint source pollution. While the Administration's lack of support
for the efforts of the states to protect water quality has been
disappointing, New Yorkers have greatly appreciated the actions of Congress
to restore appropriations.

We in the states must rely on the good judgment of Congress to ensure that
this most effective program continues to be funded adequately. In New York,
we can provide examples of critical, albeit expensive projects that still
must go forward if we are to provide the public with the clean, healthy
waters that they deserve.

For instance, New York's Clean Water State Revolving Fund will provide more
than $400 million toward the clean up of Onondaga Lake, the only lake in the
country with the unfortunate distinction of being a listed federal Superfund
site. Another $1.5 billion will be needed to upgrade and expand the Newtown
Creek Wastewater Treatment Facility in New York City, which will contribute
significantly to our efforts to clean up Long Island Sound.

With needs like these, maintaining the level of federal contributions to the
Clean Water SRF is essential. Last year, Congress approved an appropriation
of $1.35 billion to this vital initiative, restoring a significant cut
recommended by President Clinton. Maintaining the Clean Water SRF at this
level for Federal Fiscal Year 2001 is important for New York and other
states.

Henry Hudson Riverine and Estuarine Research and Education Institute

I want to make clear the depth of New York's concern for its rivers and
estuaries. Across New York State are some of the highest quality waters in
our Nation. Like Long Island Sound, these rivers and estuaries are
intrinsically intertwined with the State's history, culture and economic
development.

New Yorkers have a deep and abiding respect for the water - from Long Island
Sound, which graces our coast, to majestic rivers such as the Hudson,
Mohawk, Delaware, and Susquehanna. We recognize the importance of these
water bodies, and respect the need to protect and sustain their ecosystems.

We must learn, as well, from the legacy of the past, when often actions that
demonstrated our poor degree of understanding of the complex functions of
biological systems allowed these water bodies to be degraded.

We can best fulfill our vision of restoring our water bodies through the
highest quality scientific research. This research will apply not just to
the rivers and estuaries of New York State, but to those around the world.
To demonstrate this high dedication to these water resources, I have
proposed the creation of the Henry Hudson Riverine and Estuarine Research
and Education Institute.

The name of Henry Hudson evokes the image of exploration, which truly will
be the mission of the Institute - to explore new and better ways to protect
these fabulous resources, and to keep them safe for generations to come.

At this time, our development and planning for the Institute is just
beginning. I look forward, however, to working with you in the months and
years to come, to make this wonderful idea a reality.

Conclusion

The future of environmental policy lies in the development of programs and
initiatives designed to achieve two, complementary objectives: a cleaner,
safer environment and economic growth. Those two goals are cornerstones of
the quality of life that Americans deserve. Through our efforts to restore
Long Island Sound, and to develop the Rivers Institute, I believe that we
are demonstrating the compatibility of these goals. I look forward to
working with you and your colleagues to further them.

Thank you for providing me with the opportunity to speak before you this
afternoon.



"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
ok again: was some other senator supposedly to do her job?
LONG TERM: what was accomplished?


Hillary is a Jr. Senator. Do you know what that is? As a Jr. Senator,
Hillary
has worked with Charles Schumer and aided in much of his work. You notice
that
Schumer is a pretty popular guy and Hillary works hand in hand with him.
As for directly aiding you, she has worked hard on environmental factors
in NY.
Don't you care about that?

RB

what are you missing he
i stated that hillary is active by virtue of 138 pieces of potential
legislation in one year!
i also stated that she brought money to the state for children's programs

gf.


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
advocates are great. accomplishments are better.
i am an advocate for many things
for a cleaner environment as well.
for children (who the hell isn't)

As I said, Hillary was behind shutting down additional dumping on the LIS.
That's apart from Schumer.
She's brought in additional funding for children's programs. In fact, the
Queens activity center in my neighborhood was brought back to life by
Hillary.
Sorry, you just don't know the facts on Hillary. Then again it does not
appear
that your are aware of limited capacity of a Jr. Senator. Hillary is more
active than most.

RB

i'll take that as an agreement.
gf.



"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Pete Seeger is an advocate, far more succesful than hillary by a long shot
far more interesting.


Pete Seeger hasn't done anything for local schools, but then I don't
expect him
to. Pete Seeger supported and continues to support Hillary, BTW. They
co-hosted
several environmental rallies.

RB

you keep saying wonderfully fanatastic things in regards to her actions
relative to long island sound
so far i understand there is/was a judges order to prevent another dumping
of sewage(?)

Dumping on the sound has been a problem every year with the same old "accident"
story. Hillary was so vocal about it that something finally happened and real
suits were filed. Since I spend a great deal of the summer sailing this is not
a small issue to me. I don't imagine it would be small for you either.

RB

what are the long term accomplishments
or will you again automatically assume a defensive posture

I guess this is just a dead issue since you won't acknowledge two basic facts.

1) Hillary doesn't have a long record as a public servant. She's only been a
senator for a short time.
2) She's a Jr. senator and she basically operates beneath Charles Schumer who
generally calls the shots.

These two points completely dismantle your position.

RB

Testimony of Governor George E. Pataki

You might ask Pete Seeger what he thinks of Pataki. Pataki has defended large
companies who were cited for massive dumping again and again. For a long time
(and it's still pending) he looked the other way while GE refused to pay for
cleanup of the worst spill in the areas history. But Pataki seeks federal
assist? It's a damn crime. At least Hillary and Schumer have been vocal about
it.
It might also interest you to know that my father is a naturalist (for 45
years) who worked to fight these companies and people like Pataki. And I myself
worked for the NY Zoological Society dept of Ed. for a while. I actually know
the real stories. E-mail me offline if you'd like to hear the awful GE spill
story and how the whole LIS bed is layered with poison for miles.

RB

Bob,
you've been hanging out on this NG too long
a question does not constitute a position.
the question still stands.
gf

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
what are the long term accomplishments
or will you again automatically assume a defensive posture

I guess this is just a dead issue since you won't acknowledge two basic
facts.

1) Hillary doesn't have a long record as a public servant. She's only been
a
senator for a short time.
2) She's a Jr. senator and she basically operates beneath Charles Schumer
who
generally calls the shots.

These two points completely dismantle your position.

RB

yes you are correct.
I also spend a great deal of time on the sound. (with the exception of this
year) and it is a big deal.
Are these the lawsuits that were filed against some municpalities?
if they were and if my memory serves me, they also included parts of CT?
if i am not mistaken, i believe it was Spitzer that brought the lawsuits,
perhaps under pressure from Clinton/Schumer.........not sure.

my understanding is that part of the problem involves under designed (for
current population) storm facilities. these are not accidents. they are
delibrate. this i can prove (offline)

"Accidental Dumping"
in most towns and cities here, we have combined storm and sewer systems,
something which is no longer permitted (at least in westchester for new
development--FACT) when we have severe rainfall, the storm water overwhelms
the treatment facilities and they are currently forced to handle the
capacity by dumping.
it is a physical reality and limitation of an old world.

Westchester County has and is making rreal strides in adressing what it can
and has in place something known as "best water management pratices"
there are cumbersome and "complex" proceedural measures in place.
these days every muncipality that i have dealt with, enforces this.
this was not so until recently. it's focus is primarily storm water, flood
plains, sewer and septic. i am only famalair with it as it relates to
building development.........but i believe it involves corrective measures
as well.

as related to Hillary: the lawsuits are perhaps a first step, but they will
not prevent any further "accidents" unless Federal, State and Local $$ are
provided to update facilites. the dollars involved are far more than any of
these localities can handle. it is a complex problem.

not withstanding her stature as a Jr. Senator............her process and
vision is admirable but incomplete and there are many people that have done
far more than her in protecting the waters of NY. The Lobster Fisherman are
but one example of a more effective and complete process. and they aren't
even Jr. Senators, just a bunch of guys with boats and a livelyhood to
protect.

gf.





Dumping on the sound has been a problem every year with the same old
"accident"
story. Hillary was so vocal about it that something finally happened and
real
suits were filed. Since I spend a great deal of the summer sailing this is
not
a small issue to me. I don't imagine it would be small for you either.

RB

i'd ask Ole Pete, but i lost his phone #, haven't seen him on the train in a
long time. and the last time i was aboard the Clearwater Sloop, he was not
there.

if you are referring to the Hudson River PCB issue: there are arguably very
real reasons for not disturbing the material at the bottom of the river.

not withstanding GE: (who should be held accountable) work that needs to be
done cannot be done( for the most part) without federal money. it is beyond
the reach of local government. this is not only about commerical ventures
gone bad, it is also about an antiquated infrastructure and a population
base that has swelled.

The point of what i posted was two-fold.
first: hillary is not the only one concerned about the sound. there are and
have been many others, republican and democrat.
and frankly some of the most effective efforts have been by those outside of
government...........
she deserves credit for what she has done as a Jr. Senator. not more or less
and preferably in context. ( a word i'm afraid is disappearing from the
current politcal scene)

Pataki found funding to correct severe "structural" issues.
this has value for you as well.
Nothing to do with GE, which is a seperate debate.

my post had nothing to do with defending pataki.........and hopefully you
may begin to get the point that while i remain engaged and interested in
what is happening, i prefer no government.....not republican,
democrat,,,,,,or nader for that matter.

Since they are here to stay, I just use em for whatever value they have,
appreciate them for their service when it happens and vote as i see fit.

so in the end the defense of democrats and bashing of republicans means very
little to me.

gf.




"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Testimony of Governor George E. Pataki

You might ask Pete Seeger what he thinks of Pataki. Pataki has defended
large
companies who were cited for massive dumping again and again. For a long
time
(and it's still pending) he looked the other way while GE refused to pay
for
cleanup of the worst spill in the areas history. But Pataki seeks federal
assist? It's a damn crime. At least Hillary and Schumer have been vocal
about
it.
It might also interest you to know that my father is a naturalist (for 45
years) who worked to fight these companies and people like Pataki. And I
myself
worked for the NY Zoological Society dept of Ed. for a while. I actually
know
the real stories. E-mail me offline if you'd like to hear the awful GE
spill
story and how the whole LIS bed is layered with poison for miles.

RB

if you are referring to the Hudson River PCB issue: there are arguably very
real reasons for not disturbing the material at the bottom of the river.


Good lord!!! The ole' "lets not stir up the bottom" issue direct from GE's own
team!!! The truth is that technology exists to remove the spill, but it's
horribly expensive for the company. I guess they should have to do it then,
right?

RB

ot withstanding GE: (who should be held accountable) work that needs to be
done cannot be done( for the most part) without federal money.


GE has the moneys to fix thr problem. They wouldn't be ruined either. They
simply want to keep that money. That's what companies do.

RB

first: hillary is not the only one concerned about the sound. there are and
have been many others, republican and democrat.


Excuse me, but YOU are the one who questioned what she had done. Now that you
have some examples you are saying it doesn't count because people are also
fighting the good fight.
Give me a break! The only question that remains is one about her "long term
service" when the woman has only been a senator for a short while!
Give it up, bub.

RB

Well first of all you have to look at the context of the issue.

New York had no one suitable and hired a professional outsider from
Arkansas. Pay mercenary wages you get mercenary results.

Second the word "river". Should she support that the leap from Hudson to
White is not a far stretch, something she doesn't want the pubic reminded
about.

Third, as Congressman At Large (the proper term for what used to be
Senators) New York to her is no different than was Arkansas, a stepping
stone...to be stepped on, pushed into the mud, and then left behind.

However she remains, at present the only choice the Democrats have now due
solely to a media perceived 'stature', having actually slept or whatever in
the White House, and of course being a woman has not military service
baggage to live down.

Ergo.....Hillary in 2008. It ain't rockitscience.

Now the Republicans have a much larger problem they are startingfrom
scratch....or are they? A Veep after all only serves two purposes. Get
votes for the Prez and make him assassination proof. Gore, Edwards and
whatshisname from ....where was it a case in point (the one who was veep
under Bush Senior). So discounting the myth that Veeps have presidential
qualities Hillary may very well be facing Powell or someone of similar
stature.

I'm lovin' it!

M.




"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
first: hillary is not the only one concerned about the sound. there are
and
have been many others, republican and democrat.


Excuse me, but YOU are the one who questioned what she had done. Now that
you
have some examples you are saying it doesn't count because people are also
fighting the good fight.
Give me a break! The only question that remains is one about her "long
term
service" when the woman has only been a senator for a short while!
Give it up, bub.

RB

that is correct.
i questioned what she has done.

no i did not say it does not count.
i said: it is what it is.

this is called objectivety

congratulations!
and you have demonstrated she has not done very much, with the excuse being
she is a jr. senator and not in office for very long.
if that logic is valid, then it follows that bush has only been pres. for 4
years (not a very long time) and we should not old him accountable for lack
of accomplishements.
but we wouldn't do that now would we.

and at the same time some will be ready to send her to the white house
go figure.

context bob
context.

spin
spin
spin

gf.


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
first: hillary is not the only one concerned about the sound. there are
and
have been many others, republican and democrat.


Excuse me, but YOU are the one who questioned what she had done. Now that
you
have some examples you are saying it doesn't count because people are also
fighting the good fight.
Give me a break! The only question that remains is one about her "long
term
service" when the woman has only been a senator for a short while!
Give it up, bub.

RB

technology exists?
name it.
gf

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
if you are referring to the Hudson River PCB issue: there are arguably
very
real reasons for not disturbing the material at the bottom of the
river.


Good lord!!! The ole' "lets not stir up the bottom" issue direct from GE's
own
team!!! The truth is that technology exists to remove the spill, but it's
horribly expensive for the company. I guess they should have to do it
then,
right?

RB

congratulations!
and you have demonstrated she has not done very much, with the excuse being
she is a jr. senator and not in office for very long.
if that logic is valid, then it follows that bush has only been pres. for 4
years

Right, cuz a Jr. Senator is the same level of power as a president!!!
Smart!

RB

and we should not old him accountable for lack
of accomplishements.
but we wouldn't do that now would we.


Bush gets all the credit for the damage to the environment, the deficit and a
phoney war.

RB

technology exists?
name it.

No problem. I've answered each of your questions, and all you do is quickly
change the question.
Standard removal of layered PCB's involved dredging. Open water dredging and
dumping if actually used to relocat pollutants in some cases. It isn't possible
in this case of course. Vaccum type systems are costly, but greatly limit
sediment damage. Treatment of the materials is also possible. GE's claim that
it will creat a PCB "cloud" is actually true, but the duration of the cloud is
not serious enough to have any impact comperable to leaving the PCBs in place.
And sediment lifting is a minimal factor with new dredging technology.
Leaving it there forever is not the answer.

RB

that is correct.
i questioned what she has done.


And I gave you two very pleasant examples. You might also look at how her
support has aided Schumer's efforts. He certainly isn't complaining.
For a Jr. Senator she's pretty impressive. I don't think she should run for
president in four years. Not enough experience yet.

RB

no i did not say it does not count.
i said: it is what it is.

You said:

"on the positive side, she'll be out of NY, where she has not done a damn
thing of value."

Your statement has been corrected. That was the original debate and you lost it
as you were wrong.

RB

"gonefishiing" wrote in message ...
help us all
on the positive side, she'll be out of NY, where she has not done a damn
thing of value.
gf.

WRONG you will have to keep her.

John McCain will be our next president!
You heard it from me first!

McCain 2008
Joe

Joe wrote:
John McCain will be our next president!
You heard it from me first!

That would be much much better.


McCain 2008

Why wait? Unplug Cheney from his life support and move McCain into the
VP slot, then tell Bush Jr his turn is over.

DSK

In article ,
Joe wrote:
"gonefishiing" wrote in message ...
help us all
on the positive side, she'll be out of NY, where she has not done a damn
thing of value.
gf.

WRONG you will have to keep her.

John McCain will be our next president!
You heard it from me first!

I could live with that. I like McCain, but I doubt it'll happen.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

yep about 270 plus worth of credit. While John Boy got credit for one
appearance before the Senate..like I said Paybacks are a . . . . .... .

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
and we should not old him accountable for lack
of accomplishements.
but we wouldn't do that now would we.


Bush gets all the credit for the damage to the environment, the deficit
and a
phoney war.

RB