The racing season ended a little early for us today - we were dismasted.

The race report says it was blowing 35kts - just into a F8. This was rather
more than the F4-5 the sailing forecast had said, and it felt like it. We
had already had a few knockdowns where I had been in a good position
(foredeck) to see the angle that the mast was making with the horizon - I
noted one 80 degree knockdown and two 70's. We were out with a working jib
and one reef in the main. Conditions were a little rough - there was a 4-5ft
swell, and the wind was SW against a west-going spring tide passing through
the narrows in an estuary. Only 5 boats out of 12 finished our race. I
noticed someone else had a torn main.

Just before the mast went, we were having trouble tacking to get to a mark -
it was as if we didn't have enough forward speed to get the boat to come
round, too much heel and too much sideways motion. I was splitting my time
between being on the foredeck, straddling the spinnaker pole, ready to
escort the genny round, and getting back to the rail to put some weight up
when it was clear that we had no helm control and needed to reduce heel to
try and get forward motion. It took us three or four goes to get from port
tack to starboard. I remember thinking that we were at the limit of
sailability. We hadn't reduced canvas sufficiently and were just getting
blown flat.

So, we were hard on the wind, heading for the mark, sitting on the rail,
when the windward lower shroud gave way at the top. There was no bang that I
recall, I noticed an unfamiliar movement to my side, looked round and saw
the base of the mast tipping away and the mast step becoming visible. It was
very fast - the mast was probably down and in the water within two or three
seconds.

It looks like the mast collapsed in the middle when the lower shroud was no
longer working. It folded and fell over into the water with a 45 degree bend
in it. One end of the spinnaker pole was snapped off - it mounts at an angle
against the mast and down to a wooden locater block on the foredeck. The
locater block got pulled off, one end of the mounting collar for the
spreaders has vanished, and the masthead light floated away. The boltrope
got pulled out of the main at the mast bend and the sail suffered some
tearing.

Nobody was hurt and nobody panicked. The helm said, "oh well", and held his
position while the three crew set about getting things under control with
his guidance. (None of the crew have experienced a dismasting before, but
this was number three for the helm.) One crew was ready to cut the gear
loose, but the helm reckoned it was recoverable. First, we got the boom off
and stashed it below - had to cut the outhaul to expedidte this. Then
managed to get the outboard end of the mast lashed to the port quarter - it
was lucky that the bend was such that the masthead was close to the side of
the boat - just had to lean out and grab a line. With that secured, I could
unclip the jib halyard to allow the jib to be pulled down through its
forestay foil and stashed in the foredeck locker. We had a look at getting
the main off the mast, but found that it wasn't for moving due to being
snagged up in the bent mast, so we manhandled the whole shebang onto the
boat - the lower part of the mast was across the boat, with the top part
lashed to the quarter.

With the recovery done and all lines clear of the water, we motored back
about a mile to the marina. One of the other boats in our race - Magic
Moment - retired and held station while we sorted ourselves out, and then
escorted us back, so special thanks to them for keeping an eye on us. And
thanks, too, to the welcoming committee waiting at the pontoon to help us
sort the mess out before we headed for the bar.

We had a look at the end of the shroud, and our feeling is that it came out
of the swage rather than snapping. The ends didn't look stretched to me, and
the lack of a bang (or violent movement) would seem to support this. Another
thing is that the shrouds have been feeling slacker than usual - there was
comment last week. Apparently, the helm and one crew had tightened them a
little today, before the other two crew arrived in the morning. We reckon
that the lower had already been sliding out of the swage, and finally packed
in when faced with the heavy winds today.

Damn. There goes the rest of my sailing season. I'm going to try and get a
job on one the dinghy racing rescue boats...


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

"Wally" wrote in message
...
The racing season ended a little early for us today - we were dismasted.

The race report says it was blowing 35kts - just into a F8. This was
rather
more than the F4-5 the sailing forecast had said, and it felt like it. We
had already had a few knockdowns where I had been in a good position
(foredeck) to see the angle that the mast was making with the horizon - I
noted one 80 degree knockdown and two 70's. We were out with a working jib
and one reef in the main. Conditions were a little rough - there was a
4-5ft
swell, and the wind was SW against a west-going spring tide passing
through
the narrows in an estuary. Only 5 boats out of 12 finished our race. I
noticed someone else had a torn main.

Just before the mast went, we were having trouble tacking to get to a
mark -
it was as if we didn't have enough forward speed to get the boat to come
round, too much heel and too much sideways motion. I was splitting my time
between being on the foredeck, straddling the spinnaker pole, ready to
escort the genny round, and getting back to the rail to put some weight up
when it was clear that we had no helm control and needed to reduce heel to
try and get forward motion. It took us three or four goes to get from port
tack to starboard. I remember thinking that we were at the limit of
sailability. We hadn't reduced canvas sufficiently and were just getting
blown flat.

So, we were hard on the wind, heading for the mark, sitting on the rail,
when the windward lower shroud gave way at the top. There was no bang that
I
recall, I noticed an unfamiliar movement to my side, looked round and saw
the base of the mast tipping away and the mast step becoming visible. It
was
very fast - the mast was probably down and in the water within two or
three
seconds.

It looks like the mast collapsed in the middle when the lower shroud was
no
longer working. It folded and fell over into the water with a 45 degree
bend
in it. One end of the spinnaker pole was snapped off - it mounts at an
angle
against the mast and down to a wooden locater block on the foredeck. The
locater block got pulled off, one end of the mounting collar for the
spreaders has vanished, and the masthead light floated away. The boltrope
got pulled out of the main at the mast bend and the sail suffered some
tearing.

Nobody was hurt and nobody panicked. The helm said, "oh well", and held
his
position while the three crew set about getting things under control with
his guidance. (None of the crew have experienced a dismasting before, but
this was number three for the helm.) One crew was ready to cut the gear
loose, but the helm reckoned it was recoverable. First, we got the boom
off
and stashed it below - had to cut the outhaul to expedidte this. Then
managed to get the outboard end of the mast lashed to the port quarter -
it
was lucky that the bend was such that the masthead was close to the side
of
the boat - just had to lean out and grab a line. With that secured, I
could
unclip the jib halyard to allow the jib to be pulled down through its
forestay foil and stashed in the foredeck locker. We had a look at getting
the main off the mast, but found that it wasn't for moving due to being
snagged up in the bent mast, so we manhandled the whole shebang onto the
boat - the lower part of the mast was across the boat, with the top part
lashed to the quarter.

With the recovery done and all lines clear of the water, we motored back
about a mile to the marina. One of the other boats in our race - Magic
Moment - retired and held station while we sorted ourselves out, and then
escorted us back, so special thanks to them for keeping an eye on us. And
thanks, too, to the welcoming committee waiting at the pontoon to help us
sort the mess out before we headed for the bar.

We had a look at the end of the shroud, and our feeling is that it came
out
of the swage rather than snapping. The ends didn't look stretched to me,
and
the lack of a bang (or violent movement) would seem to support this.
Another
thing is that the shrouds have been feeling slacker than usual - there was
comment last week. Apparently, the helm and one crew had tightened them a
little today, before the other two crew arrived in the morning. We reckon
that the lower had already been sliding out of the swage, and finally
packed
in when faced with the heavy winds today.

Damn. There goes the rest of my sailing season. I'm going to try and get a
job on one the dinghy racing rescue boats...


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Damn. Good story, by contrast, the fellas in these parts cancelled one of
the last races of the fall season, too much wind-25+kts.
The biggest single race of the year had many dns and dnf
http://www.toledoyachtclub.com/Mills...RE-REVISED.pdf
Had a division winner that was the only boat that raced! Different
priorities around here, these racers don't want to spend any more money that
the absolutely have to.
John Cairns

What no photos?
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

Bummer! But thanks for the story.

What boat was it, and was there a second reef available on the main?


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_


"Wally" wrote in message
...
The racing season ended a little early for us today - we were
dismasted.

The race report says it was blowing 35kts - just into a F8. This was
rather
more than the F4-5 the sailing forecast had said, and it felt like
it. We
had already had a few knockdowns where I had been in a good position
(foredeck) to see the angle that the mast was making with the
horizon - I
noted one 80 degree knockdown and two 70's. We were out with a
working jib
and one reef in the main. Conditions were a little rough - there was
a 4-5ft
swell, and the wind was SW against a west-going spring tide passing
through
the narrows in an estuary. Only 5 boats out of 12 finished our race.
I
noticed someone else had a torn main.

Just before the mast went, we were having trouble tacking to get to
a mark -
it was as if we didn't have enough forward speed to get the boat to
come
round, too much heel and too much sideways motion. I was splitting
my time
between being on the foredeck, straddling the spinnaker pole, ready
to
escort the genny round, and getting back to the rail to put some
weight up
when it was clear that we had no helm control and needed to reduce
heel to
try and get forward motion. It took us three or four goes to get
from port
tack to starboard. I remember thinking that we were at the limit of
sailability. We hadn't reduced canvas sufficiently and were just
getting
blown flat.

So, we were hard on the wind, heading for the mark, sitting on the
rail,
when the windward lower shroud gave way at the top. There was no
bang that I
recall, I noticed an unfamiliar movement to my side, looked round
and saw
the base of the mast tipping away and the mast step becoming
visible. It was
very fast - the mast was probably down and in the water within two
or three
seconds.

It looks like the mast collapsed in the middle when the lower shroud
was no
longer working. It folded and fell over into the water with a 45
degree bend
in it. One end of the spinnaker pole was snapped off - it mounts at
an angle
against the mast and down to a wooden locater block on the foredeck.
The
locater block got pulled off, one end of the mounting collar for the
spreaders has vanished, and the masthead light floated away. The
boltrope
got pulled out of the main at the mast bend and the sail suffered
some
tearing.

Nobody was hurt and nobody panicked. The helm said, "oh well", and
held his
position while the three crew set about getting things under control
with
his guidance. (None of the crew have experienced a dismasting
before, but
this was number three for the helm.) One crew was ready to cut the
gear
loose, but the helm reckoned it was recoverable. First, we got the
boom off
and stashed it below - had to cut the outhaul to expedidte this.
Then
managed to get the outboard end of the mast lashed to the port
quarter - it
was lucky that the bend was such that the masthead was close to the
side of
the boat - just had to lean out and grab a line. With that secured,
I could
unclip the jib halyard to allow the jib to be pulled down through
its
forestay foil and stashed in the foredeck locker. We had a look at
getting
the main off the mast, but found that it wasn't for moving due to
being
snagged up in the bent mast, so we manhandled the whole shebang onto
the
boat - the lower part of the mast was across the boat, with the top
part
lashed to the quarter.

With the recovery done and all lines clear of the water, we motored
back
about a mile to the marina. One of the other boats in our race -
Magic
Moment - retired and held station while we sorted ourselves out, and
then
escorted us back, so special thanks to them for keeping an eye on
us. And
thanks, too, to the welcoming committee waiting at the pontoon to
help us
sort the mess out before we headed for the bar.

We had a look at the end of the shroud, and our feeling is that it
came out
of the swage rather than snapping. The ends didn't look stretched to
me, and
the lack of a bang (or violent movement) would seem to support this.
Another
thing is that the shrouds have been feeling slacker than usual -
there was
comment last week. Apparently, the helm and one crew had tightened
them a
little today, before the other two crew arrived in the morning. We
reckon
that the lower had already been sliding out of the swage, and
finally packed
in when faced with the heavy winds today.

Damn. There goes the rest of my sailing season. I'm going to try and
get a
job on one the dinghy racing rescue boats...


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Scott Vernon wrote:

What boat was it, and was there a second reef available on the main?

The (British) Hunter Sonata I've been crewing on all season - 22.5' fin keel
sloop. A second reef was available. I dare say the wind got up more than we
expected - we had reefed when we first went out to check the conditions in
the morning and did well in the first race (3rd). We're usually a little
over-canvassed - our local conditions are variable and I think the skipper
prefers to have enough sail for the lighter winds and ride the gusts.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

John Cairns wrote:

Damn. Good story, by contrast, the fellas in these parts cancelled
one of the last races of the fall season, too much wind-25+kts.
The biggest single race of the year had many dns and dnf
http://www.toledoyachtclub.com/Mills...RE-REVISED.pdf
Had a division winner that was the only boat that raced!

Confident of a result, was he? :-) Here's the results page for our races
today...

http://www.mitredata.co.uk/dayresult...4+00%3A00%3A00

We're in the slow yacht class - "Salmon".


Different
priorities around here, these racers don't want to spend any more
money that the absolutely have to.

Nor does my skipper! The boat's insured, so the repair and replacement costs
should be covered.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

"Wally" wrote in message
...
John Cairns wrote:

Damn. Good story, by contrast, the fellas in these parts cancelled
one of the last races of the fall season, too much wind-25+kts.
The biggest single race of the year had many dns and dnf
http://www.toledoyachtclub.com/Mills...RE-REVISED.pdf
Had a division winner that was the only boat that raced!

Confident of a result, was he? :-) Here's the results page for our races
today...

http://www.mitredata.co.uk/dayresult...4+00%3A00%3A00

We're in the slow yacht class - "Salmon".


Different
priorities around here, these racers don't want to spend any more
money that the absolutely have to.

Nor does my skipper! The boat's insured, so the repair and replacement
costs
should be covered.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com

I don't think these guys are worried about losing rigs so much as damaging
sails, if you start turning in claims for sails it's only a matter of time
before they start raising your premiums. OTOH, some of these guys might just
be scared , especially in the case of the Mills Race.

John Cairns

Wally wrote:
Confident of a result, was he? :-) Here's the results page for our races
today...

http://www.mitredata.co.uk/dayresult...4+00%3A00%3A00

We're in the slow yacht class - "Salmon".

I noticed that you were very close to 2nd on corrected time, and well
ahead of the other Sonatas. Good sailing!

Also a heck of a story about dismasting. Smart work getting the rig all
aboard & clear before starting the motor. It's a big hassle clearing
this sort of mess up without doing more damage as you go.

One thing that may help diagnose the problem, get a good magnifying
glass and examine the end of the swage where you think the wire just
pulled out. This is a somewhat unusual failure mode AFAIK (I bet Oz1
would know more) but it can happen. If you're going to re-use any of the
old standing rigging, it would be a good idea to check them all out
carefully. Does anybody at your club know how to do a dye penetrant test
on these things?

BTW our local sailing club cancelled races this weekend because it was
drizzly, temps in the 50s ( ~14C), and blowing 20 ~ 25 knots. Wimps!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote in message ...
Wally wrote:

One thing that may help diagnose the problem, get a good magnifying
glass and examine the end of the swage where you think the wire just
pulled out. This is a somewhat unusual failure mode AFAIK (I bet Oz1
would know more) but it can happen. If you're going to re-use any of the
old standing rigging, it would be a good idea to check them all out
carefully. Does anybody at your club know how to do a dye penetrant test
on these things?

I think a good eye inspection works well. Most swedges will crack or
swell before they break and its usually easy to see with a close
inspection.

Every other year I inspect mine then worm parcel and serve them. Its
allot of work but looks good and protects the sails and running
rigging.

Dye is only really needed on inferior rod rigging like on Nutsys boat.

Joe



BTW our local sailing club cancelled races this weekend because it was
drizzly, temps in the 50s ( ~14C), and blowing 20 ~ 25 knots. Wimps!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message newsk4md.30062

We're in the slow yacht class - "Salmon".

I noticed that you were very close to 2nd on corrected time, and well
ahead of the other Sonatas. Good sailing!

Of the other Sonatas, "So" always beats the rest of us (he won 6 out 6 races
at the National Championships a year or two ago - it's tough to beat the
best in the country!). Our placing against the others tends to vary. They're
all visiting boats from around the Forth - their moorings have been pulled
for the winter, so they're berthing at our marina and joining in our races
(which continue until late December). A little bit of one-design is good
fun!


Also a heck of a story about dismasting. Smart work getting the rig all
aboard & clear before starting the motor. It's a big hassle clearing
this sort of mess up without doing more damage as you go.

About the only collateral damage was having to cut the outhaul to free the
boom, and the top of the outboard getting scratched by a plate at the
masthead. Thinking back, I'm rather impressed with how well we dealt with
it - very businesslike.


One thing that may help diagnose the problem, get a good magnifying
glass and examine the end of the swage where you think the wire just
pulled out. This is a somewhat unusual failure mode AFAIK (I bet Oz1
would know more) but it can happen.

The swage was lost. They use a sort of T-fitting into a slot in the mast,
and it must have gone a-swimmin' when things fell over.


If you're going to re-use any of the
old standing rigging, it would be a good idea to check them all out
carefully.

Not my boat, but, assuming the rigging is all the same vintage, I'd change
the lot.


Does anybody at your club know how to do a dye penetrant test
on these things?

Don't know. If the rigging gets changed, I'd like to get a hold of the old
stuff and try it out.


BTW our local sailing club cancelled races this weekend because it was
drizzly, temps in the 50s ( ~14C), and blowing 20 ~ 25 knots. Wimps!

Girly wimps, more like!



--
Wally