I see what you mean. Each electron orbit is a closed circuit.
Does emf play some role in propelling an electron through its orbit?
Scout

"Bob Crantz" wrote
The flux must cross a closed conductor (loop) for current to flow. But
that
is pertinent to a permanent magnet.

Atoms have magnetic fields from the electron orbits. The electron is in
motion around the nucleus in a closed path. The electron, through its
motion, is a current and generates a magnetic field. If enough atoms are
in
correct alignemnt you have a net magnetic field.

"Scout" wrote in message
...
I thought the flux had to cross a conductor for current to flow.

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
link.net...
A permanent magnet does have current flow.


"Scout" wrote in message
...
"JG" wrote in message
...
I believe the Swedes did a study that showed there were know ill
effects
on
people, but I would pass on it if it were overhead. I believe their
study
was directly overhead. 200 feet probably wouldn't be an issue. More
investigation is, of course, warranted.

Makes one wonder about the magic magnetic bracelets and bands people
wear
for pain management. Why would magnetic flux be a miracle cure when
produced
by a permanent magnet but not when produced by current flow?
Scout

What a behind-the-times bunch of Putzes!

It has been proven electrons don't have an orbit. According to
quantum mechanics, electrons only have probability of filling those
areas around the core of an atom where the wave component of
the electron can exist without canceling itself out.

I hope this helps.

CN


"Scout" wrote in message ...
I see what you mean. Each electron orbit is a closed circuit.
Does emf play some role in propelling an electron through its orbit?
Scout

"Bob Crantz" wrote
The flux must cross a closed conductor (loop) for current to flow. But
that
is pertinent to a permanent magnet.

Atoms have magnetic fields from the electron orbits. The electron is in
motion around the nucleus in a closed path. The electron, through its
motion, is a current and generates a magnetic field. If enough atoms are
in
correct alignemnt you have a net magnetic field.

"Scout" wrote in message
...
I thought the flux had to cross a conductor for current to flow.

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
link.net...
A permanent magnet does have current flow.


"Scout" wrote in message
...
"JG" wrote in message
...
I believe the Swedes did a study that showed there were know ill
effects
on
people, but I would pass on it if it were overhead. I believe their
study
was directly overhead. 200 feet probably wouldn't be an issue. More
investigation is, of course, warranted.

Makes one wonder about the magic magnetic bracelets and bands people
wear
for pain management. Why would magnetic flux be a miracle cure when
produced
by a permanent magnet but not when produced by current flow?
Scout

but isn't Bob's point that the electron is moving, and in doing so must have
a path, and hence, by definition, is electrical current?
Scout

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
What a behind-the-times bunch of Putzes!

It has been proven electrons don't have an orbit. According to
quantum mechanics, electrons only have probability of filling those
areas around the core of an atom where the wave component of
the electron can exist without canceling itself out.

I hope this helps.

CN


"Scout" wrote in message
...
I see what you mean. Each electron orbit is a closed circuit.
Does emf play some role in propelling an electron through its orbit?
Scout

"Bob Crantz" wrote
The flux must cross a closed conductor (loop) for current to flow. But
that
is pertinent to a permanent magnet.

Atoms have magnetic fields from the electron orbits. The electron is in
motion around the nucleus in a closed path. The electron, through its
motion, is a current and generates a magnetic field. If enough atoms
are
in
correct alignemnt you have a net magnetic field.

"Scout" wrote in message
...
I thought the flux had to cross a conductor for current to flow.

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
link.net...
A permanent magnet does have current flow.


"Scout" wrote in message
...
"JG" wrote in message
...
I believe the Swedes did a study that showed there were know ill
effects
on
people, but I would pass on it if it were overhead. I believe
their
study
was directly overhead. 200 feet probably wouldn't be an issue.
More
investigation is, of course, warranted.

Makes one wonder about the magic magnetic bracelets and bands
people
wear
for pain management. Why would magnetic flux be a miracle cure when
produced
by a permanent magnet but not when produced by current flow?
Scout

You're trying to discuss quantum physics with a fool like Neal? He gets all
of his learning from the back of soda cans.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scout" wrote in message
...
but isn't Bob's point that the electron is moving, and in doing so must
have a path, and hence, by definition, is electrical current?
Scout

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
What a behind-the-times bunch of Putzes!

It has been proven electrons don't have an orbit. According to
quantum mechanics, electrons only have probability of filling those
areas around the core of an atom where the wave component of
the electron can exist without canceling itself out.

I hope this helps.

CN


"Scout" wrote in message
...
I see what you mean. Each electron orbit is a closed circuit.
Does emf play some role in propelling an electron through its orbit?
Scout

"Bob Crantz" wrote
The flux must cross a closed conductor (loop) for current to flow. But
that
is pertinent to a permanent magnet.

Atoms have magnetic fields from the electron orbits. The electron is
in
motion around the nucleus in a closed path. The electron, through its
motion, is a current and generates a magnetic field. If enough atoms
are
in
correct alignemnt you have a net magnetic field.

"Scout" wrote in message
...
I thought the flux had to cross a conductor for current to flow.

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
link.net...
A permanent magnet does have current flow.


"Scout" wrote in message
...
"JG" wrote in message
...
I believe the Swedes did a study that showed there were know ill
effects
on
people, but I would pass on it if it were overhead. I believe
their
study
was directly overhead. 200 feet probably wouldn't be an issue.
More
investigation is, of course, warranted.

Makes one wonder about the magic magnetic bracelets and bands
people
wear
for pain management. Why would magnetic flux be a miracle cure
when
produced
by a permanent magnet but not when produced by current flow?
Scout

Negative! There is no current unless there is a conductor.
A conductor allows low-energy electrons to jump from atom
to atom.

CN


"Scout" wrote in message ...
but isn't Bob's point that the electron is moving, and in doing so must have
a path, and hence, by definition, is electrical current?
Scout

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
What a behind-the-times bunch of Putzes!

It has been proven electrons don't have an orbit. According to
quantum mechanics, electrons only have probability of filling those
areas around the core of an atom where the wave component of
the electron can exist without canceling itself out.

I hope this helps.

CN


"Scout" wrote in message
...
I see what you mean. Each electron orbit is a closed circuit.
Does emf play some role in propelling an electron through its orbit?
Scout

"Bob Crantz" wrote
The flux must cross a closed conductor (loop) for current to flow. But
that
is pertinent to a permanent magnet.

Atoms have magnetic fields from the electron orbits. The electron is in
motion around the nucleus in a closed path. The electron, through its
motion, is a current and generates a magnetic field. If enough atoms
are
in
correct alignemnt you have a net magnetic field.

"Scout" wrote in message
...
I thought the flux had to cross a conductor for current to flow.

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
link.net...
A permanent magnet does have current flow.


"Scout" wrote in message
...
"JG" wrote in message
...
I believe the Swedes did a study that showed there were know ill
effects
on
people, but I would pass on it if it were overhead. I believe
their
study
was directly overhead. 200 feet probably wouldn't be an issue.
More
investigation is, of course, warranted.

Makes one wonder about the magic magnetic bracelets and bands
people
wear
for pain management. Why would magnetic flux be a miracle cure when
produced
by a permanent magnet but not when produced by current flow?
Scout

You're doing much better lately, Gaynz This is at least
the second time you've posted something without a gay
connotation.

CN

"JG" wrote in message ...
You're trying to discuss quantum physics with a fool like Neal? He gets all
of his learning from the back of soda cans.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scout" wrote in message
...
but isn't Bob's point that the electron is moving, and in doing so must
have a path, and hence, by definition, is electrical current?
Scout

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
What a behind-the-times bunch of Putzes!

It has been proven electrons don't have an orbit. According to
quantum mechanics, electrons only have probability of filling those
areas around the core of an atom where the wave component of
the electron can exist without canceling itself out.

I hope this helps.

CN


"Scout" wrote in message
...
I see what you mean. Each electron orbit is a closed circuit.
Does emf play some role in propelling an electron through its orbit?
Scout

"Bob Crantz" wrote
The flux must cross a closed conductor (loop) for current to flow. But
that
is pertinent to a permanent magnet.

Atoms have magnetic fields from the electron orbits. The electron is
in
motion around the nucleus in a closed path. The electron, through its
motion, is a current and generates a magnetic field. If enough atoms
are
in
correct alignemnt you have a net magnetic field.

"Scout" wrote in message
...
I thought the flux had to cross a conductor for current to flow.

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
link.net...
A permanent magnet does have current flow.


"Scout" wrote in message
...
"JG" wrote in message
...
I believe the Swedes did a study that showed there were know ill
effects
on
people, but I would pass on it if it were overhead. I believe
their
study
was directly overhead. 200 feet probably wouldn't be an issue.
More
investigation is, of course, warranted.

Makes one wonder about the magic magnetic bracelets and bands
people
wear
for pain management. Why would magnetic flux be a miracle cure
when
produced
by a permanent magnet but not when produced by current flow?
Scout

How about when a CRT fires electrons through a vacuum and onto phosphorus
coated screen, would you consider that to be current flowing without a
conductor?
Scout

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
Negative! There is no current unless there is a conductor.
A conductor allows low-energy electrons to jump from atom
to atom.

CN


"Scout" wrote in message
...
but isn't Bob's point that the electron is moving, and in doing so must
have
a path, and hence, by definition, is electrical current?
Scout

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
What a behind-the-times bunch of Putzes!

It has been proven electrons don't have an orbit. According to
quantum mechanics, electrons only have probability of filling those
areas around the core of an atom where the wave component of
the electron can exist without canceling itself out.

I hope this helps.

CN


"Scout" wrote in message
...
I see what you mean. Each electron orbit is a closed circuit.
Does emf play some role in propelling an electron through its orbit?
Scout

"Bob Crantz" wrote
The flux must cross a closed conductor (loop) for current to flow.
But
that
is pertinent to a permanent magnet.

Atoms have magnetic fields from the electron orbits. The electron is
in
motion around the nucleus in a closed path. The electron, through
its
motion, is a current and generates a magnetic field. If enough atoms
are
in
correct alignemnt you have a net magnetic field.

"Scout" wrote in message
...
I thought the flux had to cross a conductor for current to flow.

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
link.net...
A permanent magnet does have current flow.


"Scout" wrote in message
...
"JG" wrote in message
...
I believe the Swedes did a study that showed there were know
ill
effects
on
people, but I would pass on it if it were overhead. I believe
their
study
was directly overhead. 200 feet probably wouldn't be an issue.
More
investigation is, of course, warranted.

Makes one wonder about the magic magnetic bracelets and bands
people
wear
for pain management. Why would magnetic flux be a miracle cure
when
produced
by a permanent magnet but not when produced by current flow?
Scout

Actually I do have a gauss meter (gaussometer?) on its way. I am curious to
know what the magnetic field strength is. My desk at work is about 3 feet
from a large 480-240/120 step down xformer. I'm probably getting more from
that than I'd ever get anywhere else. Once I get the meter, I'll do some
experimenting and report back.
Scout

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
Many replies are so full of urban myth that I must restart.
Lets start with health effects rumored to be caused by
electricity (and ignore that original study was later
discovered with gross statistical errors). Many immediately
assume danger was in high tension wires. They first failed to
learn or demand the numbers. Those health effects, if exist,
were more likely from something that creates stronger fields -
such as wires underneath floor and inside walls, from circuit
breaker box to central air conditioner. Those who jump to
conclusions immediately assumed the study was about high
tension wires.

'Those' include many news anchors who refuse to first do what
all responsible anchormen are suppose to do - verify the story
- hold the reporter's feet to the fire - do as Walter Cronkite
did so routinely and so viciously. Immediately, the reply
from many posters is suspect - having confused health risk
warnings about something else - then assuming it must be high
tension wires. They assumed as many irresponsible news
anchors did on local news shows. Urban myth is now rampant
even in this thread.

We take it farther. Being an enemy of junk science
reasoning, I first took a meter. I got numbers. Magnetic
fields generated by an automobile dashboard may be higher that
those from high tension wires. So you tell me where dangers
exist? Already I am posting information that negates many of
your replies. IOW too many people have 'knowledge' before
they learn facts. They fail to temper their assumptions with
numbers.

Among the numbers not provided were line voltages. 128 kV?
230 kV? 765 kV? These also define other conditions such a
noise. What is on those electric distribution towers? Bottom
line. You need numbers before anyone can properly answer your
question. Lets not forget, the original Scandinavian study
that started all this hype was later discovered to have
manipulated the statistics. This was discovered by other
scientists who finally got access to the raw data. IOW hype
continued until numbers were revealed. Any yet the
speculation continues here - again without numbers.

Too many never heard the whole story which is why they even
blame high voltage towers rather than low voltage, high
current wires. The original study blamed the latter.
Therefore others here blamed the former. Wires with larger
fields - that can even distort computer CRT screens in some
rooms - should be of greater concern.

Scout wrote:
I'd like to hear opinions regarding supposed adverse health effects
of a close proximity to high tension wires. I'm looking at a nice
piece of land on the side of a mountain, about 200 feet from the
lines. I'm inclined to think a cell phone is more dangerous. I
know we have a few here who are knowledgeable in the field (no
pun intended).
Scout

"Scout" wrote in message
...
I'd like to hear opinions regarding supposed adverse health effects of a
close proximity to high tension wires.
I'm looking at a nice piece of land on the side of a mountain, about 200
feet from the lines. I'm inclined to think a cell phone is more dangerous.
I
know we have a few here who are knowledgeable in the field (no pun
intended).

I wouldn't live near HT wires.

A few years ago I visited a power station. I swear that I felt something as
I drove under the HT wires. I don't know what I felt. However, I was left
with the feeling that I could tell when I was under the HT lines with a
blindfold on.

The voltages were 400k, and I only felt the effect 30ft either side of the
wires.



Regards


Donal
--

Scout - you are correct. To create an electric current, the
magnetic field must be changing. This is basic and
fundamental to Maxwell's equations and should have been known
to those posting permanent magnets creating electricity.

Electrons moving inside 'shells' of the atom are totally
irrelevant to electricity. Electricity means electrons move
from atom to atom. It means the conductive path is a complete
circuit. A permanent magnet has no moving field; therefore
creates no electricity. Motion is also necessary.

Furthermore note many half truths. Where are the numbers?
Yes the sun can vaporize anything. Therefore we must keep
everything out of the sun? Too much salt kills. Therefore
the salt shaker should be treated as a hazardous material.
This is how others promote hype and fear. No place do these
fears apply to high voltage power towers. You would think
from these posts that those high voltage towers subject the
human body to 5 Telsa.

In one cited study, 200 mGauss caused changes to cellular
growth. That proves fields from electric lines will harm
humans. Wait. That field is less than the earth's magnetic
field. Therefore we are all being killed by the earth? This
is the type of hype and fear being promoted.

Worry. Where the wire bends, then fields are so much
stronger? How much stronger? Trivial stronger. Again
numbers would expose the hype. And hype it is. Posted is
proof that all electric fields kill? Why do trivial fields
from power lines kill when significantly larger fields (a
decade+ larger) from the CRT do not?

In another citation, field exceed 1 gauss before considered
dangerous. So where is this 1 gauss field from the high
voltage distribution line? It must be if the line is 230 Kv?
Again, posted was fear without considering what actual numbers
would be from that power line.

So what is cited as dangerous? Because fields generated by
a building transformer might be hazardous, then high voltage
transmission lines also must be dangerous? Again, notice
which electric lines are discussed. Not those high voltage
transmission lines. Lower voltage, high current electric
wires inside the building. Again there is this problem with
hyping all electricity as dangerous only because very high
magnetic fields MIGHT be dangerous.

Ball park numbers. Long before the location is dangerous, a
CRT or TV would have display problems. Now we have something
concrete to consider. IOW we have a ballpark number AND some
way to measure for that number.

More interesting. What fields are really deadly? Magnetic
or Electric? I wonder if those hyping fear even know the
difference. But most shocking is some ridiculous idea that a
motionless magnet creates electricity.

Get the gauss meter. Take some measurements. Suddenly much
of the hype being promoted here by some will disappear.
Amazing what a few numbers can do to make so many previous
posts irrelevant or misleading.

Scout wrote:
I thought the flux had to cross a conductor for current to flow.

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
link.net...
A permanent magnet does have current flow.