Mooron, I have no need to haul my vessel every year,


Capt. Mooron wrote:
You do but you just can't bother.

Baloney. Why?

Unless forced to do so by weather (in which case you should consider
moving south), the need for underwater repairs or to renew anti-fouling,
you shouldn't haul your boat out of the water at all. It's bad for it.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message

Unless forced to do so by weather (in which case you should consider
moving south), the need for underwater repairs or to renew anti-fouling,
you shouldn't haul your boat out of the water at all. It's bad for it.

Now I've heard it all.... it's bad to haul your boat out!! Good Grief!

Here's a bit of news... if you are not living on your boat... it's a damned
smart move to haul it when you know for a fact you are not going to use it!
If you do live on your boat and are not underway for extended periods or
enroute.... it most definitely pays to haul your boat on a regular basis!
If you live on a boat tied to a mooring for 90% of the time... a 3 year
haul-out cycle is ridiculously incompetent!

CM

CM

Capt. Mooron wrote:
Now I've heard it all.... it's bad to haul your boat out!! Good Grief!

Do you think it's *good* for it to remove the hull from the even support
of the water, and put it on jackstands or a cradle?


Here's a bit of news... if you are not living on your boat... it's a damned
smart move to haul it when you know for a fact you are not going to use it!

Why? Are you afraid that it might sink because of incompetent maintenance?


If you do live on your boat and are not underway for extended periods or
enroute.... it most definitely pays to haul your boat on a regular basis!

Why?

How can you say "it pays" when it's actually rather expensive?

If you live on a boat tied to a mooring for 90% of the time... a 3 year
haul-out cycle is ridiculously incompetent!


Why?

I named the reasons to haul a boat out of the water. Can you provide
some other reasons to cover your claims?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message

I named the reasons to haul a boat out of the water. Can you provide some
other reasons to cover your claims?

Shure....


Do you think it's *good* for it to remove the hull from the even support
of the water, and put it on jackstands or a cradle?

What harm would it do to a proper vessel? The boat flexes more in a seaway
than in the cradle. A proper cradle with sufficent support in no way harms a
vessel... to say otherwise is nonsense.

Why? Are you afraid that it might sink because of incompetent maintenance?

Maybe..... it doesn't take much to sink a vessel. A bad mooring that has
been rented, another vessel breaking loose and impacting your boat, storms,
vandals. Anyone who leaves their boat unattended for extended durations is
tempting Mr. Murphy. I always have someone living aboard my vessel when it's
at the mooring and I find myself out of town working.

If you do live on your boat and are not underway for extended periods or
enroute.... it most definitely pays to haul your boat on a regular
basis!

Why?

For Gawd's sake... maintainence!! If you neglect your hull... the effects
will soon become cumalitive. A sailboat isn't like a fleet trawler that you
can hire a diver to professionally clean the hull everytime you are in port
and provide you with a list of defects requiring attention.

How can you say "it pays" when it's actually rather expensive?

Since when is $75...expensive? A travel lift takes minutes to haul a
vessel. It's cheap!

If you live on a boat tied to a mooring for 90% of the time... a 3 year
haul-out cycle is ridiculously incompetent!

Why?

Well Doug.... nothing grows a garden like a boat that spends the majority
of it's time to a mooring. Barnacles and growth infest beyond the intake
screens. Scrape all you want.... the only way to properly clean and reapply
an annual coat of ablative paint is a haul-out. Tropical waters only act to
speed the process of fouling.

Really Doug... I know you know better than this and are no doubt looking for
a refreshing debate with you playing Devil's Advocate.

CM
..

"DSK" wrote in message

Capt. Mooron wrote:
Now I've heard it all.... it's bad to haul your boat out!! Good Grief!

Do you think it's *good* for it to remove the hull from the even support
of the water, and put it on jackstands or a cradle?

Modern boats (those since all but the earliest days of fiberglass) are
designed to accommodate this necessity. It does them no particular harm, if
done properly.

Here's a bit of news... if you are not living on your boat... it's a
damned smart move to haul it when you know for a fact you are not going
to use it!

Why? Are you afraid that it might sink because of incompetent maintenance?

**** happens. Even the best-maintained boats get hit by storms, runaway
boats, and lightning. Not to mention that a boat on the hard is generally
more difficult to steal.

If you do live on your boat and are not underway for extended periods or
enroute.... it most definitely pays to haul your boat on a regular
basis!

Why?

Myriad reasons. Bottom repaint, check thru-hulls, especially the external
sealant, check the stuffing box (if so equipped) for problems, and so on.
Even Lin and Larry Pardey hauled Seraffin and Taliesin periodically, or at
the very least they blocked them up for painting and inspection at low tide.
So did Susan and Eric Hiscock.

How can you say "it pays" when it's actually rather expensive?

I suppose you've not heard the old adage that an ounce of prevention is
worth a pound of cure. Preventive maintenance saves money. Period.


If you live on a boat tied to a mooring for 90% of the time... a 3 year
haul-out cycle is ridiculously incompetent!


Why?

Why not try it and see. Hell, go for a decade, while you're at it.


Max

Do you think it's *good* for it to remove the hull from the even support
of the water, and put it on jackstands or a cradle?


Capt. Mooron wrote:
What harm would it do to a proper vessel?

Ever heard of sagging or hogging?

... The boat flexes more in a seaway
than in the cradle.

WHAT!!!

If your vessel "flexes in a seaway" then it's either large cargo ship
bridging two big ocean swells, or else it' sadly underbuilt.

... A proper cradle with sufficent support in no way harms a
vessel... to say otherwise is nonsense.


If by "a proper cradle" you mean a custom job with fitted bunks, then
I'd tentatively agree. But most cradles with 4 adjustable pads, or a set
of jackstands, put a great deal of stress on a hull & deck... usually
don't support the boat well enough nor keep it in close enough
alignment, and the result is slow structural degredation.


Why? Are you afraid that it might sink because of incompetent maintenance?


Maybe..... it doesn't take much to sink a vessel.

Nope, just a small leak over a long time... or a big one over a short time.

... A bad mooring that has
been rented, another vessel breaking loose and impacting your boat, storms,
vandals.

???
Sounds like you're boating in the Wild West or some gawd-forsaken
wilderness... oh wait, I forgot, you *are* boating in some gawd-forsaken
wilderness...

... Anyone who leaves their boat unattended for extended durations is
tempting Mr. Murphy.

Agreed, but that's true when it's hauled out as well.

... I always have someone living aboard my vessel when it's
at the mooring and I find myself out of town working.


That sounds like a good arrangement... your brother?


If you do live on your boat and are not underway for extended periods or
enroute.... it most definitely pays to haul your boat on a regular
basis!

Why?


For Gawd's sake... maintainence!! If you neglect your hull... the effects
will soon become cumalitive.

Neglect is stupid & destructive whether the boat is ahsore or afloat...
worse ashore IMHO... especially if it fills with rainwater...


How can you say "it pays" when it's actually rather expensive?


Since when is $75...expensive? A travel lift takes minutes to haul a
vessel. It's cheap!

Well, there you go. Around here (which is one of the least expesnive
places on the East Coast) you can't get a Travel-Lift to turn the key
for less than $200... usually they hit you up for that plus a per-foot
charge...



Why?


Well Doug.... nothing grows a garden like a boat that spends the majority
of it's time to a mooring.

Is that my fault? You can either take the thing out for a spin
occasionally, or hire a local diver to give it a scrub once in a while
(which isn't very expensive, considering the cost of annual haul-out).



Really Doug... I know you know better than this and are no doubt looking for
a refreshing debate with you playing Devil's Advocate.


No, just offering some common sense to offset your assumption that
everybody has their boat moored in some uncivilzed hinterland.

My original statement is completely true: Unless forced to do so by
weather, the need for underwater repairs or to renew anti-fouling, you
shouldn't haul your boat out of the water at all.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Maxprop wrote:
I suppose you've not heard the old adage that an ounce of prevention is
worth a pound of cure. Preventive maintenance saves money. Period.


Where in any of my posts am I suggesting neglect is better than proper
maintenance?

So far, you and Mooron have not mentioned one single circumstance
showing that a haul-out... other than for the few reasons I stated... is
desirable much less necessary,




If you live on a boat tied to a mooring for 90% of the time... a 3 year
haul-out cycle is ridiculously incompetent!


Why?


Why not try it and see. Hell, go for a decade, while you're at it.

It's approaching 2 1/2 years since we hauled uor boat out and I'd go
another year with out hesistating. There's little bottom growth...
attended to by me or a hired a diver... and no reason whatever to haul
it out in the near future... unless I decide to go ahead and install a
bow thruster...

"Ridiculously incompetent"??!?! Get a clue!

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Do you think it's *good* for it to remove the hull from the even support
of the water, and put it on jackstands or a cradle?


Capt. Mooron wrote:
What harm would it do to a proper vessel?

Ever heard of sagging or hogging?

Never in a proper cradle with the rig relaxed.


... The boat flexes more in a seaway than in the cradle.

WHAT!!!

When I slam Overproof into a 20 foot drop off a breaking wave... I assure
you the stress loads exceed that of a lift out on straps and a properly
fitted steel cradle.


If your vessel "flexes in a seaway" then it's either large cargo ship
bridging two big ocean swells, or else it' sadly underbuilt.

... A proper cradle with sufficent support in no way harms a vessel... to
say otherwise is nonsense.


If by "a proper cradle" you mean a custom job with fitted bunks, then I'd
tentatively agree. But most cradles with 4 adjustable pads, or a set of
jackstands, put a great deal of stress on a hull & deck... usually don't
support the boat well enough nor keep it in close enough alignment, and
the result is slow structural degredation.

Sure.. you can lean the damn thing onto a pair of posts as well... but the
majority of people who undertake annual haulouts have a proper cradle for
their vessel... or have one built.




Why? Are you afraid that it might sink because of incompetent
maintenance?


Maybe..... it doesn't take much to sink a vessel.

Nope, just a small leak over a long time... or a big one over a short
time.

... A bad mooring that has been rented, another vessel breaking loose and
impacting your boat, storms, vandals.

???
Sounds like you're boating in the Wild West or some gawd-forsaken
wilderness... oh wait, I forgot, you *are* boating in some gawd-forsaken
wilderness...

... Anyone who leaves their boat unattended for extended durations is
tempting Mr. Murphy.

Agreed, but that's true when it's hauled out as well.

In the yard it's much more difficult to steal from and far easier to explain
to your insurance company.


... I always have someone living aboard my vessel when it's at the
mooring and I find myself out of town working.


That sounds like a good arrangement... your brother?

Friends on vacation, students, family.... it depends... I never have a
problem when asking if anyone would care to babysit a vessel on a mooring,
in a beautiful harbour rent free.



If you do live on your boat and are not underway for extended periods or
enroute.... it most definitely pays to haul your boat on a regular
basis!

Why?


For Gawd's sake... maintainence!! If you neglect your hull... the
effects will soon become cumalitive.

Neglect is stupid & destructive whether the boat is ahsore or afloat...
worse ashore IMHO... especially if it fills with rainwater...


How can you say "it pays" when it's actually rather expensive?


Since when is $75...expensive? A travel lift takes minutes to haul a
vessel. It's cheap!

Well, there you go. Around here (which is one of the least expesnive
places on the East Coast) you can't get a Travel-Lift to turn the key for
less than $200... usually they hit you up for that plus a per-foot
charge...



Why?


Well Doug.... nothing grows a garden like a boat that spends the
majority of it's time to a mooring.

Is that my fault? You can either take the thing out for a spin
occasionally, or hire a local diver to give it a scrub once in a while
(which isn't very expensive, considering the cost of annual haul-out).



Really Doug... I know you know better than this and are no doubt looking
for a refreshing debate with you playing Devil's Advocate.


No, just offering some common sense to offset your assumption that
everybody has their boat moored in some uncivilzed hinterland.

My original statement is completely true: Unless forced to do so by
weather, the need for underwater repairs or to renew anti-fouling, you
shouldn't haul your boat out of the water at all.

That's just incompetent.... regular maintenance would require it.

CM

My original statement is completely true: Unless forced to do so by
weather, the need for underwater repairs or to renew anti-fouling, you
shouldn't haul your boat out of the water at all.


Capt. Mooron wrote:
That's just incompetent.... regular maintenance would require it.


You still haven't shown *what* regular maintenance requires an annual
haul-out!

Fact- our boat is absolutely not lacking for regular maintenance, it's
in great shape. And it hasn't been hauled out in 2 1/2 years. It could
easily go another year IMHO (not sure about the longevity of the bottom
paint, but it couold go even longer) if we weren't thinking about
installing a bow thruster.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message . ..
If by "a proper cradle" you mean a custom job with fitted bunks, then
I'd tentatively agree. But most cradles with 4 adjustable pads, or a set
of jackstands, put a great deal of stress on a hull & deck... usually
don't support the boat well enough nor keep it in close enough
alignment, and the result is slow structural degredation.

Right you are for once.

Proof is the Irwin 43's and 52's I used to work in back in the late
80s had some nice joinery work and cabinets, bulkheads, etc were
all fitted with the boat in a custom cradle. All the lockers and
doors closed perfectly until the boat was splashed and then in
went the carpenters again to pry many of them open and shave away
the offending wood that made them stick because the hull settled
into a different position in the water.

Mooron is delusional thinking a cradle is a good place for a boat
to be. In the water as much as possible is where a boat belongs.

CN