Actually, my experience has been that they quickly admit their mistakes with
the other students present. Usually, I have to correct them in that... some
of what they say are not truly mistakes, but rather deficiencies in
experience, which are easily correctable with time on the water. In fact,
most of the time, a mistake will only happen once, as they're unlikely to
forget it.

I usually lie about my assistant, jokingly telling the students that
so-and-so has crossed oceans.

More about Blink in a while. I'm off to breakfast.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
I often take crew aside and ask them how they think
they did. In private they are quick to admit their faults
Some of them elaborate, and some just admit making a
mistake. I praise what they did well and stress the
concept of thinking ahead. I then make a few suggestions
on areas to practice. This sounds is very similar to what
you do Jon. Like you I sometimes take notes and hit them
with a list of things so I can get the bad news over quickly.

I always try to make people feel comfortable with me
as a skipper and I can think of only one time when one
girl tried to cover up her mistakes--I overheard her lying
on the phone to her boyfriend about what happened.

On the other hand, I personally have a problem crewing
for someone when I'm expected to be something between
the skipper and crew. My solution is to avoid such situations
and clearly define all roles on the boat.

So, what did you learn from this book Blink?

"Capt. JG" wrote

I think that the only way correct this situation, to be more objective,
is
to do a tally at the end of the day, a formal list, of what a particular
person did well and didn't do well with, and then see what the balance
looks
like. I tend to go by my impression first, which is not necessarily a bad
thing, but it can be misleading if used exclusively or in excess.

One interesting side note to this is a book I strongly recommend. It's
called Blink: The power of thinking without really thinking, by Malcom
Gladwell. It's short enough to be read in a day or so, but has a lot to
say.

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:45:44 -0400, "Bart Senior" .@. wrote:

Brother in law talked me into crewing in a meaningless club race for
one of his customers. Boat was a new Ericson 29. Race was a 12 mile
straight run from Biloxi to Gulfport, no turns or marks. about ten
boats in the race. 12 miles of beam reach on a port tack. Milk run
right? just watch your trim and your course and the fastest boat (or
the one with the most favorable rating) gets the cup.

About half way the wind died to nothing as often happens in the middle
of the summer down here. absolutely nothing. one by one the boats
threw in the towel and either motored up and went home or went into
the Broadwater Marina (we were passing it when the wind died) for a
drink at the bar. The skipper saw everyone quitting and figured all
he had to do to win was finish. And finish we did at 3AM (race
started at 1PM. No committee boat but his understanding is since
there was no time limit on the race he just had to cross on the right
side of the sea buoy that made up one half of the line.

Now I can see this for an important race, but a meaningless pick up
club race.

While bobbing around out there, this fool had us doing all kinds of
idiotic things to get the boat moving. For instance he had read in a
dead calm if you ease forward and then run briskly aft you will make
the boat move. He actually wanted us to do that.

Most race skippers will provision their boats for the crew. He did
not and told us when we found out before the race that we did not have
time to get some food and beer.

The only reason I didn't pitch him overboard was because of the
Brother in Law.

Who was your worst skipper? What made it
intolerable?

"Frank Boettcher" wrote

I've crewed for others as much as I've skippered. There are a few I
would never go back with.

What I learned from Blink... trust your first impressions backed up by
experience.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Actually, my experience has been that they quickly admit their mistakes
with the other students present. Usually, I have to correct them in
that... some of what they say are not truly mistakes, but rather
deficiencies in experience, which are easily correctable with time on the
water. In fact, most of the time, a mistake will only happen once, as
they're unlikely to forget it.

I usually lie about my assistant, jokingly telling the students that
so-and-so has crossed oceans.

More about Blink in a while. I'm off to breakfast.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
I often take crew aside and ask them how they think
they did. In private they are quick to admit their faults
Some of them elaborate, and some just admit making a
mistake. I praise what they did well and stress the
concept of thinking ahead. I then make a few suggestions
on areas to practice. This sounds is very similar to what
you do Jon. Like you I sometimes take notes and hit them
with a list of things so I can get the bad news over quickly.

I always try to make people feel comfortable with me
as a skipper and I can think of only one time when one
girl tried to cover up her mistakes--I overheard her lying
on the phone to her boyfriend about what happened.

On the other hand, I personally have a problem crewing
for someone when I'm expected to be something between
the skipper and crew. My solution is to avoid such situations
and clearly define all roles on the boat.

So, what did you learn from this book Blink?

"Capt. JG" wrote

I think that the only way correct this situation, to be more objective,
is
to do a tally at the end of the day, a formal list, of what a particular
person did well and didn't do well with, and then see what the balance
looks
like. I tend to go by my impression first, which is not necessarily a
bad
thing, but it can be misleading if used exclusively or in excess.

One interesting side note to this is a book I strongly recommend. It's
called Blink: The power of thinking without really thinking, by Malcom
Gladwell. It's short enough to be read in a day or so, but has a lot to
say.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
I often take crew aside and ask them how they think
they did. In private they are quick to admit their faults
Some of them elaborate, and some just admit making a
mistake. I praise what they did well and stress the
concept of thinking ahead.

Good Grief Bart... that's awfully condescending. None of my crew to the man
woman or child would tolerate that attitude from a skipper. Any poor
performance of crew aboard a vessel is due to the skipper's short
comings.... not the crew. It's not about how quick they did a task, nor is
it about how flawlessly they preformed... it's about having fun on the
water.

A crack race crew behaves much differently than a cruising crew. The
expectations of the skipper should match the conditions. There is no "I" in
team.

CM

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
There is always room fro improvement. Albeit I agree
that a good skipper instills confidence. Things like giving
clear direction to crew that are eager to follow orders
makes a big difference. Training crew is important, if you
are like me, and want to see things done in a snappy and
safe manner.

It goes without saying that clear and consice direction is paramount to
effective crew deployment Bart... nobody would claim otherwise. I do not
demand everything be done in a "snappy" manner. The tone of my voice lends
to the importance of the task. I do not delegate that which requires
experienced proficency to a crew not experienced to undertake that task at
the speed at which it must be done. If nobody on the vessel is able to
undertake a certain task I have them relieve me and do it myself. No fuss,
no muss, no accusations, no reprimands.They will watch and learn...

During my last trip to the islands, I had two crew jumping
halyards at various times. They were each slow raising the
sail--to my standards, although it is hardly critical. Finally, I
decided to demonstrate how I did it, which was twice as fast,
while hollering "faster, faster" to the tailer to keep up. It
made a big impression on the crew and I wish I'd done it
earlier in the cruise. I'm a believer in doing some things
fast--particularly reefing.

Certainly..... but had you made it clear from the begining... further
instruction would not have been required. If I race... I use a dedicated
crew.. they know what needs to be done. When I cruise it's up to me to give
as much lead as possible so that the crew can complete the task within the
required timeframe. That's part of being the Skipper.


Tying a knot fast relates to less time spend on the foredeck
or in an exposed position.

All my crew practise their knots.... then I have them all become proficent
at a single hand bowline.


There are situations where you can mentally plan ahead to
get better performance from your crew.

As skipper you should always be planning ahead.

There are times
when a bit of training will do this also. Simple techniques
like using a crew's name, and slapping him or her on the
shoulder to confirm an order is a good habit to get into in
calm conditions, and clearly gets the message across in all
conditions, including extreme or distracting situations.

Training is on-going... not only for the crew but for the captain as well.

I can think of a time where a short order to a helmsman to
stay focused on driving, when their were all sorts of distractions
in the cockpit, would have avoided an injury. Being a good
skipper means anticipating things like this and speaking out
at just the right time.

I give everyone aboard time at all stations to better explain through
experience the effects of their actions in concert with the crew and
progress of the vessel. I will also occasionally order all hands to stand
down and stand by on the bridge/cockpit.... while I undertake several fast
tacks on my own. This gets the point across as to their relative value and
my abilities. :-)


You and I have talked about keeping crew busy as a good
technique to maintain control and exercise leadership. Why
don't you relate some of your techniques.

Yes... I believe we were discussing a situation in which you were reviewing
your response to a crew member questioning your actions. I believe I
mentioned that deployment was crucial.... in retrospect I would have
ordered all the crew to stand down and handled the vessel myself. I do not
tolerate insubordination and make certain that the seeds of mutiny are never
given opportunity to sprout. :-)

CM

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:45:44 -0400, "Bart Senior" .@. wrote:

Brother in law talked me into crewing in a meaningless club race for
one of his customers. Boat was a new Ericson 29. Race was a 12 mile
straight run from Biloxi to Gulfport, no turns or marks. about ten
boats in the race. 12 miles of beam reach on a port tack. Milk run
right? just watch your trim and your course and the fastest boat (or
the one with the most favorable rating) gets the cup.

About half way the wind died to nothing as often happens in the middle
of the summer down here. absolutely nothing. one by one the boats
threw in the towel and either motored up and went home or went into
the Broadwater Marina (we were passing it when the wind died) for a
drink at the bar. The skipper saw everyone quitting and figured all
he had to do to win was finish. And finish we did at 3AM (race
started at 1PM. No committee boat but his understanding is since
there was no time limit on the race he just had to cross on the right
side of the sea buoy that made up one half of the line.

Now I can see this for an important race, but a meaningless pick up
club race.

While bobbing around out there, this fool had us doing all kinds of
idiotic things to get the boat moving. For instance he had read in a
dead calm if you ease forward and then run briskly aft you will make
the boat move. He actually wanted us to do that.

Most race skippers will provision their boats for the crew. He did
not and told us when we found out before the race that we did not have
time to get some food and beer.

The only reason I didn't pitch him overboard was because of the
Brother in Law.

LOL - great post mate!

PS: surely there *would* have been a time limit, or at least, one should
have been imposed during the race when the wind dropped, and the course
shortened. Was a radio not a requirement?

--
Duncan

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
Who was your worst skipper? What made it
intolerable?

Oddly enough... I pay little attention to a Skipper while crewing. Yes I'll
handle the direction and complete the tasks... but the speed at which I do
it is based on my perceived requirement of his call. I do not make good crew
for the most part. I do not take orders well and unless I have great
respect for the abilities of the Captain.. I will question his every action.
Caveat - If the Captain is more experienced than I am and holds my
respect.... I'm one of the best crew he/she could ever want.

CM

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:45:44 -0400, "Bart Senior" .@. wrote:

While bobbing around out there, this fool had us doing all kinds of
idiotic things to get the boat moving. For instance he had read in a
dead calm if you ease forward and then run briskly aft you will make
the boat move. He actually wanted us to do that.


"Frank Boettcher" wrote

IINM, that sort of thing is illegal under the rules of racing.

John Cairns

Mooron believes he's perfect.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Captain Joe Redcloud" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:07:18 -0400, "Bart Senior" .@. wrote:

I often take crew aside and ask them how they think
they did. In private they are quick to admit their faults

You might do better to take them aside and ask them how YOU did. In
private they
may tell you some things you really need to hear.


Captain Joe Redcloud
Mohnton PA

Bart is twice the man and three times the sailor that you dream of becoming.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Captain Joe Redcloud" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 16:20:28 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

Mooron believes he's perfect.

That may be what he thinks, but I was addressing Connie Senior, not Guy
Aerts.


Captain Joe Redcloud
Mohnton PA