I was looking through some old sailing books last night and started
reading about the Gaff rigged schooners and sloops. Looking at the
drawings I thought....

Doesn't the gaff allow for more roach with better control aloft? Is the
penalty just the spar, which could be made ultralight these days?
Wouldn't still add more sail area and superior shape on a modern ketch?
Well, it's a pretty rig in any case.



RB
35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:
I was looking through some old sailing books last night and started
reading about the Gaff rigged schooners and sloops. Looking at the
drawings I thought....

Doesn't the gaff allow for more roach with better control aloft? Is the
penalty just the spar, which could be made ultralight these days?

They're called full length battens nowadays.

Wouldn't still add more sail area and superior shape on a modern ketch?

That's why so many modern high performance boats like mine use them.
How about yours?

Well, it's a pretty rig in any case.

yup.

Doesn't the gaff allow for more roach with better control aloft? Is the
penalty just the spar, which could be made ultralight these days?

They're called full length battens nowadays.


But, Jeff...think about this: The gaff rig lets you raise part of your
sail without reefing and sacrificing sail shape. You can hoist without
the topsail.


RB
35s5
NY

Rob,

A Gaff rigged anything is an interesting thing. I think that is why my
father was so pleased to have one always. I agree they make a pretty
sailplan.

As opposed to the "Bermuda" or "Marconi" that evolved in the late 19th
century, you could get more sail area for the same mast. Close hauled
and beating, you pay for it. The weight aloft is some part of the
issue, but the whole top of the sail is in the wind shadow of the gaff
and the two halyard's tackle.

A Proposal - with modern materials:

I bet one could - make a gaff that had an aerodynamic section, and hoist
it and the throat with winches and single runs of "spider" line - boof
goes that issue.
Now, with the software top design sails that runs on a PC, you could cut
a sail that really worked.

There is one problem that I see right away, - teh peak halyard is going
to be really tough on the truck - when you want to tighten the leach to
minimize the twist you are going to have a really tight headstay
(assuming it is a masthead rig).

I also see something I like a lot. When you need to de-power fast, you
can drop the peak and let a bunch of sail fall behind the working
portion - it will just go hide there and not flog (and you can get your
father's catboat back to the morning and only get soaked to the skin).

Somebody want to pay me to build them one?

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor


Capt. Rob wrote:
I was looking through some old sailing books last night and started
reading about the Gaff rigged schooners and sloops. Looking at the
drawings I thought....

Doesn't the gaff allow for more roach with better control aloft? Is the
penalty just the spar, which could be made ultralight these days?
Wouldn't still add more sail area and superior shape on a modern ketch?
Well, it's a pretty rig in any case.



RB
35s5
NY

Matt Colie wrote:
Rob,

A Gaff rigged anything is an interesting thing. I think that is why my
father was so pleased to have one always. I agree they make a pretty
sailplan.

As opposed to the "Bermuda" or "Marconi" that evolved in the late 19th
century, you could get more sail area for the same mast. Close hauled
and beating, you pay for it. The weight aloft is some part of the
issue, but the whole top of the sail is in the wind shadow of the gaff
and the two halyard's tackle.

A Proposal - with modern materials:

I bet one could - make a gaff that had an aerodynamic section, and hoist
it and the throat with winches and single runs of "spider" line - boof
goes that issue.
Now, with the software top design sails that runs on a PC, you could cut
a sail that really worked.
In fact the Bermuda evolved by the gaff becoming more and more verticle
and aero dynamic.

There is one problem that I see right away, - teh peak halyard is going
to be really tough on the truck - when you want to tighten the leach to
minimize the twist you are going to have a really tight headstay
(assuming it is a masthead rig).

I also see something I like a lot. When you need to de-power fast, you
can drop the peak and let a bunch of sail fall behind the working
portion - it will just go hide there and not flog (and you can get your
father's catboat back to the morning and only get soaked to the skin).
This called scandalizing the sail. When gybing, it is common to
scandalize the main to prevent the sail from tear by having the gaff
come screaming across ahead of the boom being eased out.

Somebody want to pay me to build them one?

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor


Capt. Rob wrote:

I was looking through some old sailing books last night and started
reading about the Gaff rigged schooners and sloops. Looking at the
drawings I thought....

Doesn't the gaff allow for more roach with better control aloft? Is the
penalty just the spar, which could be made ultralight these days?
Wouldn't still add more sail area and superior shape on a modern ketch?
Well, it's a pretty rig in any case.



RB
35s5
NY

Nutsy.

I'm old enough to remember those Gaff Rigs. Learned to sail on a Gaff
Rigged Cat work Boat. Drooled about owning a "Friendship Sloop!"
BUT;----Nutsy that Gaff Boom; still lives in my mind as a thing of
terror. It is necessary to raise a gaff ( No batten will do the job).
Nothing, I mean nothing can match the pain of a Jam Jaws on a Gaff Boom.
Also; nothing can match the Heart Pumping of a Gybe of a Gaff Rig, not
to even mention an "Accidental Jibe" Nutsy, you've never experienced
"Weather Helm" until you've sailed a Gaffer off the wind. It was the
Gaff Rig that invented the Barn Door, transom hung rudder.

All that be said; My heart skips a beat at the thought of a "Friendship
on a reach". One of your nickname came from that boat; "Bowsprit" was
what they put on the New England Catboat to carry a head sail to reduce
that damn weather helm. Tamed it enough to be a "Friend"

Are memories;--- but that was long ago;
Ole Thom



http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 18:15:51 -0500, Matt Colie wrote:


As opposed to the "Bermuda" or "Marconi" that evolved in the late 19th
century, you could get more sail area for the same mast. Close hauled and
beating, you pay for it. The weight aloft is some part of the issue, but
the whole top of the sail is in the wind shadow of the gaff and the two
halyard's tackle.

A Proposal - with modern materials:

I bet one could - make a gaff that had an aerodynamic section, and hoist
it and the throat with winches and single runs of "spider" line - boof
goes that issue.
Now, with the software top design sails that runs on a PC, you could cut a
sail that really worked.

You make a point. Modern technology has been focused on the Bermuda, and
the other sailplans keep falling farther behind. One has to wonder, if
that same development had been given to other plans, junk, lateen, sprit,
where they would stand today.

Except for Jeff....who thinks full length battens are the same as a
gaff rig (!!! See his post!!!) this was a good sailing thread. Thom,
you are a living museum of sailing memories...I mean that in a good
way.
I had also looking at the new version of the Alerion 38, which ads big
roach to the main...thought of adding sail area for the main on a
ketch...and the gaff pics made me wonder.
Too complicated, even if it could be engineered in a light weight
version, especially since you'd need shape control for the topsail.

RB
35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:
Except for Jeff....who thinks full length battens are the same as a
gaff rig (!!! See his post!!!)

Ah, Bob - you're the one referring to the peak of a gaff as "roach."
Full length battens are the true way to get roach - the gaff usually
adds too much twist.


this was a good sailing thread. Thom,
you are a living museum of sailing memories...I mean that in a good
way.
I had also looking at the new version of the Alerion 38, which ads big
roach to the main...thought of adding sail area for the main on a
ketch...and the gaff pics made me wonder.
Too complicated, even if it could be engineered in a light weight
version, especially since you'd need shape control for the topsail.

You should check this out (third review, between the F33 and Mac 26!):

http://www.sailnet.com/sailing/03/bobnov03.htm

Ah, Bob - you're the one referring to the peak of a gaff as "roach."
Full length battens are the true way to get roach - the gaff usually
adds too much twist.


Jeff, you lack imagination just as you lack brains. The whole point of
the thread was to discuss a modern approach to the gaff. Everyone got
that...but you. You're so busy trying to make up for all the beating
you took, you're willing to throw your monkey poop in the air...even if
most of it lands back on you!

RB
35s5
NY