"Capt. Rob" Bob sobbed
Well....I'm off to the yard in my SUV that has a better ride and
quieter interior could have been Lexus RX330! Buh bye!


RB
35s5
NY

f-d over rebuilt dodge FORD
JB
"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
Fords best..F@*K the rest.

Joe

Lincoln Town and Country!!!


Uh, a WHAT???? How clueless can you be?

Crantz....you're such a tool. Please look up a Lincoln Town and
Country, dopey.


RB
35s5
NY

I have no clue what a Town and Country is. All I could think of is one of
those wood grain sided station wagons. I saw a Chevy Caprice wagon with wood
grain sides a few years back. Definite competition for the Aztek as far as
wanting to gouge out my eyes.

Anyway, the Tribeca Boulevard Car didn't measure up to the Town and Country,
whatever it is.

And it's not as fast as the Toyota Tundra!!!!!

Or as nice!!!!

Bwaahahahahahahaaaaaa!



"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Lincoln Town and Country!!!


Uh, a WHAT???? How clueless can you be?

Crantz....you're such a tool. Please look up a Lincoln Town and
Country, dopey.


RB
35s5
NY

Anyway, the Tribeca Boulevard Car didn't measure up to the Town and
Country,
whatever it is.

And it's not as fast as the Toyota Tundra!!!!!

Or as nice!!!!


Yeah...okay. Best check the stats on the CHRYSLER Town and Country
which is a VAN and has no full time AWD system...and the Tundra which
scored poorly on ride, handling, crash test for rear, road noise and so
on.
C'mon Bob. This is boring. Just posting dopey stuff that isn't true is
really pathetic if you can't be a bit creative about it. Edmunds is
about a good a resource as Consumer Reports. BTW, my father traded his
Town and Country for a Forester XT, which is twice the car, twice the
speed and twice the handling with a 5 star crash rating as well. Until
American cars catch up, it's a Japanese world!

RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Anyway, the Tribeca Boulevard Car didn't measure up to the Town and
Country,
whatever it is.

And it's not as fast as the Toyota Tundra!!!!!

Or as nice!!!!


Yeah...okay. Best check the stats on the CHRYSLER Town and Country
which is a VAN and has no full time AWD system.

Here you have my apologies. I would never stoop so low to compare your car
to a Chrysler, especially the mini van. No foul intended on that one.


...and the Tundra which
scored poorly on ride, handling, crash test for rear, road noise and so
on.

Tundra is the best riding truck and faster than your Boulevard Car.

Road noise is a function of tires. If they put boulevard tires on the
Tundra, it would be quieter. The Tundra would clobber the Tribeca Boulevard
Special in a demolition derby. There's your crash rating!

16 gallon gas tank + 15 mpg = 240 mile range! That's the same as a 1973
Toyota Landcruiser! And the Land Cruiser (FJ-40) is no Boulevard car!


C'mon Bob. This is boring. Just posting dopey stuff that isn't true is
really pathetic if you can't be a bit creative about it. Edmunds is
about a good a resource as Consumer Reports. BTW, my father traded his
Town and Country for a Forester XT, which is twice the car, twice the
speed and twice the handling with a 5 star crash rating as well.

A Tonka toy is twice the car as a Chrysler mini van.

Until
American cars catch up, it's a Japanese world!

Subaru, Toyota = made in America, without labor unions!!!!

Labor Unions = Poor Car Quality!!!!!!!!!

Good to see you are anti-Union RB!

Amen!


RB
35s5
NY

16 gallon gas tank + 15 mpg = 240 mile range! That's the same as a 1973

Toyota Landcruiser! And the Land Cruiser (FJ-40) is no Boulevard car!


Tribeca gets 18 MPG city, 24 HWY. I get just under 25, sometimes
better.

Tribeca has VDC traction control, full time AWD at all speeds. The
Tundra doesn't.

Tribeca has quieter cabin, 3 zone climate control. Wind noise is also
lower in the B9.

Tribeca is capable of 135 MPH compared to the Tundra's 115 and the poor
Tundra can only do that sad speed in FWD mode!

Tribeca maintains antilock even when traction control activates while
the Tundra must rely soley on it's simple less sophisticated ABS
system.

The Tribeca has 5 speed sportmatic transmission with sport mode and
manual shifting.

Now...would you like to know how badly the B9 clobbers the Tundra on
the skidpad???? You'd look a little smarter if you had a clue that the
B9 is not a truck or even a standard SUV.

RB
35s5
NY

Tundra is the best riding truck and faster than your Boulevard Car.


Best riding TRUCK, but the B9, Lexus RX330 and BMW X5 all handle and
ride better because they're LUXURY SUVs and not trucks. Care to compare
Doug's Trawler to my 35s5 next?
I own the nicest car and the best sailboat here it would appear!

Thanks!


RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
16 gallon gas tank + 15 mpg = 240 mile range! That's the same as a 1973

Toyota Landcruiser! And the Land Cruiser (FJ-40) is no Boulevard car!


Tribeca gets 18 MPG city, 24 HWY. I get just under 25, sometimes
better.

Not true, you don't get 25 mpg per tank. Maybe on your instantaneous mpg
meter. If you include that, I get over 99 mpg at times.


Tribeca has VDC traction control, full time AWD at all speeds. The
Tundra doesn't.

The Tribeca is stuck in AWD. It doesn't have locking differentials or
limited slip differential. It will eat tires.


Tribeca has quieter cabin, 3 zone climate control. Wind noise is also
lower in the B9.

Of course, it's a Boulevard car.


Tribeca is capable of 135 MPH compared to the Tundra's 115 and the poor
Tundra can only do that sad speed in FWD mode!

Tundra does not go 115 mph in FWD mode. It can go 105 mph pulling a 3500 lb
trailer. Can the Boulevard car?



Tribeca maintains antilock even when traction control activates while
the Tundra must rely soley on it's simple less sophisticated ABS
system.

So explain the mechanism of the traction control. Is it simply the brake is
applied to the spinning wheel? That is not traction control.



The Tribeca has 5 speed sportmatic transmission with sport mode and
manual shifting.

So? Does it have 4WD LO gear selection? That's 8 forward gears and 2 in
reverse.



Now...would you like to know how badly the B9 clobbers the Tundra on
the skidpad????

It doesn't.


You'd look a little smarter if you had a clue that the
B9 is not a truck or even a standard SUV.

The Tribeca is not a truck as I have said, it's a Boulevard car. I was
comparing it to a truck to show how outrageously poor it is as a performance
car. It barely beats a large pickup truck in a few categories.

16 gallon fuel tank!!!

Many owners report poor gas mileage!! 15 MPG!

Bad acceleration!!!!

Eats tires!!!

Eats brakes!!!

Boulevard car!!!!!!!



RB
35s5
NY

AWD is almost useless beyond pavement




Glossary


larger tires


ten stupid things



what is ...

part time 4WD ?


full time 4WD ?


all wheel drive ?

difference AWD and 4WD?

automatic 4WD ?





4WD school


locking differentials










Please sign my guestbook






contact me

© 1996-2005 Harald Pietschmann





My comment relates to the way most "all wheel drive" vehicles (usually
minivans - some SUVs like Lexus RX300 or Ford Explorer V8) distribute torque
to the wheels and how they manage traction.


why you find me here using the term torque rather than power



Part time 4WD vehicles always distribute torque inside their transfer case
50/50 to front and rear when the shifter is in one of the 4WD positions (Hi
or Lo). Most of the time each of the 4 wheels gets 25% of the torque - that
minimizes wheel spin. This system is very strong and reliable -
unfortunately it can't be used on pavement. Should one of the wheels or one
axle lose traction - the other axle will still receive a reliable supply of
torque (up to 100%) through the transfer case.

Conventional full time 4WD vehicles use a differential inside the transfer
case to make 4WD use on pavement possible. This is done with a ring and
pinion set or a planetary gear set. Each of the 4 wheels constantly gets 25%
of the torque (as long as the ground is level and traction is equal) - that
in itself prevents wheel spin. This setup is also very strong and reliable.
However, this system would be handicapped for off-road use (it is much more
likely to lose traction off-road than on-road) if it would not have some
sort of spin control. Call it traction control, if you will. If one of the
tires or one axle would lose traction - the differential in the transfer
case (often called "center differential") would allow the axle with lost
traction to spin (could be both tires or one). To avoid this some of the
full time 4WD vehicles offer a manual center differential lock (all
LandRover, Mercedes G etc.) or other means of (automatic) spin control. A
mechanically locked center diff acts like a part time transfer case - and is
as strong and reliable as a part time system off-road. Some vehicles do not
manage or lock any of the differentials. Instead they have systems that
slows down spinning wheels.

Now, all wheel drive (AWD) is a completely different "beast". In my opinion
it is useless beyond pavement because it does not have low range like the
other two systems. Low range provides necessary crawl speed for maximum
control during difficult driving situations. And low range range provides a
significant torque multiplication.Low gears in a 4WD are like the low gears
in a mountain bike. Can you imagine a mountain bike without low gears? Main
drawback of AWD is that the transfer case can't be manually locked. Two
different systems are in use - neither one works well for use beyond
pavement: AWD System one (true all wheel drive - or full time symmetric
AWD) has a conventional differential inside the transfer case - each of the
wheels gets about 25% of the torque as long as traction is equal. However,
the center diff cannot be mechanically locked.
To prevent a complete loss of traction when one wheel or one axle would
spin, a viscous coupling or a similar device like a Haldex coupling (see
note) will try to "glue" both driveshafts together to keep enough torque
flowing to the axle with traction. Works kinda OK on slippery pavement when
the vehicle has already sufficient momentum and the connecting device has to
kick in very infrequently. Off-road or in other situations with slow speed
and high demand for torque the glue box (viscous coupling or Haldex etc.) is
overstressed and fails to deliver the needed torque. High torque transfers
and continous use make especially viscous couplings fail. Haldex units are
much more reliable but cannot satisfy the constant high demand for torque at
all wheels either.

AWD System two (automatic asymmetric AWD - and in a way actually only a
sophisticated 2WD system) might not have a differential in the transfer case
(Volvo, Honda, etc.) but some do (Jeep Grand Cherokee). Primary power goes
only to one axle (makes spinning tires much more likely due to inefficient
use of traction - as likely as in any other 2WD car). However, both drive
shafts are joined by a viscous coupling or a similar device (see note) and
as long as all 4 wheels turn at the same speeds the control unit remains
inactive. Once the powered axle or one of the powered tires loses traction,
the powered drive shaft rotates faster than the one that is just rotating
along. The control unit reacts to the speed difference and kinda glues both
drive shafts together. This way the previously unpowered shaft will get some
of the torque and rescue the failing tires. Same story as in system one:
Works kinda OK on slippery pavement when the vehicle has already sufficient
momentum and the control unit has to kick in very infrequently. Fails
miserably when need of high torque arises or when activated frequently.
Cannot satisfy the constant high demand for torque at all wheels when
off-road.

Now you may understand better why I think AWD is not suitable for use beyond
pavement.

The last generation Jeep Grand Cherokees (1999 WJ and 2005 KJ) with
QuadraDrive II are not to be confused with a viscous coupling system. The J
GC also powers only one axle (rear) but the Gerodisc technology and
E-Gerodisc used by Jeep is very strong, very reliable and provides
sufficient amounts of torque to where it's needed.





"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
16 gallon gas tank + 15 mpg = 240 mile range! That's the same as a 1973

Toyota Landcruiser! And the Land Cruiser (FJ-40) is no Boulevard car!


Tribeca gets 18 MPG city, 24 HWY. I get just under 25, sometimes
better.

Tribeca has VDC traction control, full time AWD at all speeds. The
Tundra doesn't.

Tribeca has quieter cabin, 3 zone climate control. Wind noise is also
lower in the B9.

Tribeca is capable of 135 MPH compared to the Tundra's 115 and the poor
Tundra can only do that sad speed in FWD mode!

Tribeca maintains antilock even when traction control activates while
the Tundra must rely soley on it's simple less sophisticated ABS
system.

The Tribeca has 5 speed sportmatic transmission with sport mode and
manual shifting.

Now...would you like to know how badly the B9 clobbers the Tundra on
the skidpad???? You'd look a little smarter if you had a clue that the
B9 is not a truck or even a standard SUV.

RB
35s5
NY