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What boat for me?

Well I'm going to attempt to get a thread going that actually has a
little bit to do with sailing. And maybe provide some initial
direction for my search. In the last couple of days we have had
chicken pluckin stories, gay theme movies, Ebay woes, a little current
lib/conserv debate and an informal post in survey about concern for
Doug's truthfulness regarding his address (who cares, BTW). Must be
January.

So I need a boat. I'll give minimum specs and you suggest some
classic or not so classic plastic.

1. I would like something in the 35 plus or minus foot range, sloop
rigged, aft cockpit.

2. I'm a woodworker by hobby, experienced with glass work and custom
painting, good with plumbing, electrical, mechanical and enjoy
bringing things back from the brink, so a fixer upper is fine, in fact
desired. This indicates that age is not a factor.

3. I sail in the world of many sand bars, with desitinations,
anchorages, and islands that require no deep stick under a boat. Like
to keep draft to less than five feet, preferably much less.

4. I'm not going to live aboard, however trips of several weeks to a
month at a time are probable, so living amentities or the potential to
install the same are somewhat important. ( this does not mean room for
a home theatre)

5.I sail in hot, wet land. I don't care about AC but want good
cross and top hatch ventilation (screenable, those mosquitos like hot,
wet land also)

6. WHile I like performance, I would give up a half knot or so for
stout. Keep in mind, I had a Columbia 8.7 for a long time and failed
to ever bury her lee rail. I liked that.

7. Give slight preference to at least partially skeg protected
rudder.

8. I think the change to more beam that took place in the late
seventies to early eighties was a good thing. This indicates that age
might be a factor.

9. PHRF not important. I don't want a dog but when I race, I prefer
to crew on someone else's boat. And for some reason, I can't tell the
difference whether I'm going 6 knots or 5.5 knots in the big scheme of
things. It is the perception of speed and power that matter.

10. I prefer classic lines. The spaceship look of the later Hunters,
and anyone who is following in those footsteps, turns me off. Must be
my age.

11. prefer wheel steering but would retrofit. Most 35's would have it
anyway. Would retrofit to rack and pinion. That is one of the things
I can agree with Boob, Swab, matrix inhabitant, etc. It is absolutely
slick and very responsive with great feedback. But I would like a
close to nuetral (weather) helm on a full speed beam reach.

12. for now, no price range limitations.

I may never get there, but who knows, so give me your suggestion and
I'll check it out maybe add it to the search list. And I won't blast
your submission, just quietly add it to the list or reject it. Of
course, more than likely you will blast each others.

On my list so far:

Endeavour 35 - meets most requirements. Downside - draft pushes 5'
and there are not a lot of them out there available. May be some
other things, I have not done a complete analysis.

What boat for me?

Catamaran or tri for sure.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...

Well I'm going to attempt to get a thread going that actually has a
little bit to do with sailing. And maybe provide some initial
direction for my search. In the last couple of days we have had
chicken pluckin stories, gay theme movies, Ebay woes, a little current
lib/conserv debate and an informal post in survey about concern for
Doug's truthfulness regarding his address (who cares, BTW). Must be
January.

So I need a boat. I'll give minimum specs and you suggest some
classic or not so classic plastic.

1. I would like something in the 35 plus or minus foot range, sloop
rigged, aft cockpit.

2. I'm a woodworker by hobby, experienced with glass work and custom
painting, good with plumbing, electrical, mechanical and enjoy
bringing things back from the brink, so a fixer upper is fine, in fact
desired. This indicates that age is not a factor.

3. I sail in the world of many sand bars, with desitinations,
anchorages, and islands that require no deep stick under a boat. Like
to keep draft to less than five feet, preferably much less.

4. I'm not going to live aboard, however trips of several weeks to a
month at a time are probable, so living amentities or the potential to
install the same are somewhat important. ( this does not mean room for
a home theatre)

5.I sail in hot, wet land. I don't care about AC but want good
cross and top hatch ventilation (screenable, those mosquitos like hot,
wet land also)

6. WHile I like performance, I would give up a half knot or so for
stout. Keep in mind, I had a Columbia 8.7 for a long time and failed
to ever bury her lee rail. I liked that.

7. Give slight preference to at least partially skeg protected
rudder.

8. I think the change to more beam that took place in the late
seventies to early eighties was a good thing. This indicates that age
might be a factor.

9. PHRF not important. I don't want a dog but when I race, I prefer
to crew on someone else's boat. And for some reason, I can't tell the
difference whether I'm going 6 knots or 5.5 knots in the big scheme of
things. It is the perception of speed and power that matter.

10. I prefer classic lines. The spaceship look of the later Hunters,
and anyone who is following in those footsteps, turns me off. Must be
my age.

11. prefer wheel steering but would retrofit. Most 35's would have it
anyway. Would retrofit to rack and pinion. That is one of the things
I can agree with Boob, Swab, matrix inhabitant, etc. It is absolutely
slick and very responsive with great feedback. But I would like a
close to nuetral (weather) helm on a full speed beam reach.

12. for now, no price range limitations.

I may never get there, but who knows, so give me your suggestion and
I'll check it out maybe add it to the search list. And I won't blast
your submission, just quietly add it to the list or reject it. Of
course, more than likely you will blast each others.

On my list so far:

Endeavour 35 - meets most requirements. Downside - draft pushes 5'
and there are not a lot of them out there available. May be some
other things, I have not done a complete analysis.

What boat for me?

Nice lines too...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"John Cairns" wrote in message
. ..

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...

Well I'm going to attempt to get a thread going that actually has a
little bit to do with sailing. And maybe provide some initial
direction for my search. In the last couple of days we have had
chicken pluckin stories, gay theme movies, Ebay woes, a little current
lib/conserv debate and an informal post in survey about concern for
Doug's truthfulness regarding his address (who cares, BTW). Must be
January.

So I need a boat. I'll give minimum specs and you suggest some
classic or not so classic plastic.

1. I would like something in the 35 plus or minus foot range, sloop
rigged, aft cockpit.

2. I'm a woodworker by hobby, experienced with glass work and custom
painting, good with plumbing, electrical, mechanical and enjoy
bringing things back from the brink, so a fixer upper is fine, in fact
desired. This indicates that age is not a factor.

3. I sail in the world of many sand bars, with desitinations,
anchorages, and islands that require no deep stick under a boat. Like
to keep draft to less than five feet, preferably much less.

4. I'm not going to live aboard, however trips of several weeks to a
month at a time are probable, so living amentities or the potential to
install the same are somewhat important. ( this does not mean room for
a home theatre)

5.I sail in hot, wet land. I don't care about AC but want good
cross and top hatch ventilation (screenable, those mosquitos like hot,
wet land also)

6. WHile I like performance, I would give up a half knot or so for
stout. Keep in mind, I had a Columbia 8.7 for a long time and failed
to ever bury her lee rail. I liked that.

7. Give slight preference to at least partially skeg protected
rudder.

8. I think the change to more beam that took place in the late
seventies to early eighties was a good thing. This indicates that age
might be a factor.

9. PHRF not important. I don't want a dog but when I race, I prefer
to crew on someone else's boat. And for some reason, I can't tell the
difference whether I'm going 6 knots or 5.5 knots in the big scheme of
things. It is the perception of speed and power that matter.

10. I prefer classic lines. The spaceship look of the later Hunters,
and anyone who is following in those footsteps, turns me off. Must be
my age.

11. prefer wheel steering but would retrofit. Most 35's would have it
anyway. Would retrofit to rack and pinion. That is one of the things
I can agree with Boob, Swab, matrix inhabitant, etc. It is absolutely
slick and very responsive with great feedback. But I would like a
close to nuetral (weather) helm on a full speed beam reach.

12. for now, no price range limitations.

I may never get there, but who knows, so give me your suggestion and
I'll check it out maybe add it to the search list. And I won't blast
your submission, just quietly add it to the list or reject it. Of
course, more than likely you will blast each others.

On my list so far:

Endeavour 35 - meets most requirements. Downside - draft pushes 5'
and there are not a lot of them out there available. May be some
other things, I have not done a complete analysis.

http://tinylink.com/?cr3JqCf4ug

Tartan 37. Head and shoulders over any Endeavour ever built, fairly shoal
draft with the cb, there are always a few of them out there, but not a
lot, and it has a skeg hung rudder, and a real pilot berth if you're ever
considering serious offshore work. As a bonus, a good turn of speed.

John Cairns

What boat for me?

Ditto on the Tartan 37. It was one our first picks for a family boat
and they are nicely priced. We looked at one with a recent refit at
70K. It was just short on space, but a beautiful boat. More than a few
on the market, but good ones have had a lot of work done and owners
want some payback. Beautiful boat.

A less costly, but still wonderful boat right at the 35 foot mark is
the Pearson 35. Some had draft just over 4 feet or so.
http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/p...g_id=1523&url=

Another example...
http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/p..._id=55169&url=

Another favorite of mine is the Cape Dory 33, less than 5 foot draft
and a very sweet, but tough cruiser. These have held up amazingly well
over the years.
http://tinyurl.com/dubj2

RB
35s5
NY

What boat for me?

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Another example...
http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/p..._id=55169&url=

I believe he wanted a sloop rig. This Pearson is a yawl.

What boat for me?

I believe he wanted a sloop rig. This Pearson is a yawl.

Most of the 35's were sloops, Jonathan. I was just showing the lines of
the boat, not the rig on that particular boat.

RB
35s5
NY

What boat for me?

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...

Well I'm going to attempt to get a thread going that actually has a
little bit to do with sailing. And maybe provide some initial
direction for my search. In the last couple of days we have had
chicken pluckin stories, gay theme movies, Ebay woes, a little current
lib/conserv debate and an informal post in survey about concern for
Doug's truthfulness regarding his address (who cares, BTW). Must be
January.

Now Frank--think of it this way: if you were a sailor from a climate
somewhat north of warm, and your boat was on the hard under a blanket of
snow, what would you be doing? If you were lucky enough to be gathered with
friends and sailing associates, wouldn't you be sitting at a bar somewhere,
kibbutzing about such things as chicken plucking, gay movies, Ebay,
politics, and Doug's legitimate address? Okay, perhaps not those things
exactly, but you might--and the emphasis is on *might*--talk about boats.
Considering that you've just spent the last summer doing just that, other
topics might creep into the conversation, doncha think? That's okay--you're
still relatively new here.

So I need a boat. I'll give minimum specs and you suggest some
classic or not so classic plastic.

1. I would like something in the 35 plus or minus foot range, sloop
rigged, aft cockpit.

Is there any other boat than the Beneteau 35s5 in this size range? From the
preponderance of posts over the past two months, one would certainly believe
that to be the case.

2. I'm a woodworker by hobby, experienced with glass work and custom
painting, good with plumbing, electrical, mechanical and enjoy
bringing things back from the brink, so a fixer upper is fine, in fact
desired. This indicates that age is not a factor.

Uh oh--there goes the 35s5. Damn.

3. I sail in the world of many sand bars, with desitinations,
anchorages, and islands that require no deep stick under a boat. Like
to keep draft to less than five feet, preferably much less.

Boats don't have sticks underneath, Frank. They are generally on top, not
down below. The stick is . . . . oh, never mind. Okay, we've established
that you need a Scheel keel, a shallow draft fin with bulb or wing, or a
keel/centerboard boat.

4. I'm not going to live aboard, however trips of several weeks to a
month at a time are probable, so living amentities or the potential to
install the same are somewhat important. ( this does not mean room for
a home theatre)

Oh, what a shame--Bubbles will be so disappointed at the lack of a theatre
with a megawatt subwoofer and satellite speakers. But you apparently do
need some interior volume and a few liveaboard amenities, if not the full
Monty.

5.I sail in hot, wet land. I don't care about AC but want good
cross and top hatch ventilation (screenable, those mosquitos like hot,
wet land also)

Screens, then. And ports and hatches--lots of those.

6. WHile I like performance, I would give up a half knot or so for
stout. Keep in mind, I had a Columbia 8.7 for a long time and failed
to ever bury her lee rail. I liked that.

You never sail in wind over 10 kts. Okay, but you might reconsider doing
so, considering that Ma Nature doesn't really cater to your personal whims.

7. Give slight preference to at least partially skeg protected
rudder.

How about a full keel? Nothing will touch the rudder on one of those?

8. I think the change to more beam that took place in the late
seventies to early eighties was a good thing. This indicates that age
might be a factor.

Whose age? Yours or the boat's? :-)

9. PHRF not important. I don't want a dog but when I race, I prefer
to crew on someone else's boat. And for some reason, I can't tell the
difference whether I'm going 6 knots or 5.5 knots in the big scheme of
things. It is the perception of speed and power that matter.

Definitely not a 35s5, which is the fastest thing on the water these days,
according to someone.

10. I prefer classic lines. The spaceship look of the later Hunters,
and anyone who is following in those footsteps, turns me off. Must be
my age.

Probably just that you have taste and a sense of aesthetics. Those latest
boats with those pseudo-Euro arytenoid transoms are futt buckin' ugly.

11. prefer wheel steering but would retrofit. Most 35's would have it
anyway. Would retrofit to rack and pinion. That is one of the things
I can agree with Boob, Swab, matrix inhabitant, etc. It is absolutely
slick and very responsive with great feedback. But I would like a
close to nuetral (weather) helm on a full speed beam reach.

Oh sure--everyone would. It's just unlikely with a sailboat, however,
unless you don't mind some lee helm to weather.

12. for now, no price range limitations.

May we assume you're willing to pay upwards of several hundred thousand for
this boat, or is there really a limitation but you're unwilling to state it?
IF the former, I've got a whole shopping list of boats for you. IF the
latter, we're going to be a bit more constricted. For the sake of this
discussion, I'll assume the latter, at least until you indicate otherwise.

I may never get there, but who knows, so give me your suggestion and
I'll check it out maybe add it to the search list. And I won't blast
your submission, just quietly add it to the list or reject it. Of
course, more than likely you will blast each others.

On my list so far:

Endeavour 35 - meets most requirements. Downside - draft pushes 5'
and there are not a lot of them out there available. May be some
other things, I have not done a complete analysis.

My suggestions:

1) Ericson 35--draws 5', reasonably fast, good looking, ample
accommodations for a couple plus an occasional guest or two.

2) Ericson 38--draws 5'6", fast, good looking, ample accommodations for
four.

3) Tartan 37--keel/centerboard, enabling some serious gunkholing in a
fairly large boat, fast, good looking, and ample accommodations for a couple
plus guests.

4) Pacific Seacraft Crealock 37--draws 5'6", moderately fast, attractive,
ample accommodations for a couple, even if a bit beam-challenged, built to
go anywhere.

5) Pearson 365 sloop (some were ketches)--draws 4'6", moderately fast,
attractive, ample accommodations for a couple plus guests, solid coastal
cruiser.

6) Irwin 37-38 (may be hard to find a sloop, but some were made)--draws 5',
ain't fast, ain't attractive, accommodations for four ample folks plus an
occasional guest or two, and you'll need your abilities with fiberglass on
this one. Irwins were not terribly well-constructed in this size range.
Despite that, you can see them everywhere, including crossing oceans.
(shudder!)

There are more, but this is a start. I'm sure others have good suggestions
as well.

But it's just a damned shame that the 35s5--best boat ever created--doesn't
meet your needs. Think of it: fast as an offshore powerboat, better
looking than Brittney Spears, PHRF of -4000, accommodations for dozens,
including a toddler, fine French joinerwork, and did I mention better
looking than Brittney Spears? OH, and it has a by-God swim platform.
Please reconsider . . .

Max

What boat for me?

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 15:24:17 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
.. .

Well I'm going to attempt to get a thread going that actually has a
little bit to do with sailing. And maybe provide some initial
direction for my search. In the last couple of days we have had
chicken pluckin stories, gay theme movies, Ebay woes, a little current
lib/conserv debate and an informal post in survey about concern for
Doug's truthfulness regarding his address (who cares, BTW). Must be
January.

Now Frank--think of it this way: if you were a sailor from a climate
somewhat north of warm, and your boat was on the hard under a blanket of
snow.......

I certainly hope I never have to find out what I would do in that
circumstance! I bought that 8.7 in Warwick, Rhode Island, in January
and I remember seeing all those boats crammed in together with winter
nasty all over them and thinking this is not for me. By early Feb, it
was trucked down, commissioned and we were spending nights on the Gulf
Islands.

.......you're still relatively new here.

Well, not really, just in and out going back maybe five years or
better. If you decide not to participate in the incessant Boobster
trolls or the political debates or diatribes, you don't get to post
often unless you start the thread.

So I need a boat. I'll give minimum specs and you suggest some
classic or not so classic plastic.

1. I would like something in the 35 plus or minus foot range, sloop
rigged, aft cockpit.

Is there any other boat than the Beneteau 35s5 in this size range? From the
preponderance of posts over the past two months, one would certainly believe
that to be the case.

I was hoping there might be something else.

2. I'm a woodworker by hobby, experienced with glass work and custom
painting, good with plumbing, electrical, mechanical and enjoy
bringing things back from the brink, so a fixer upper is fine, in fact
desired. This indicates that age is not a factor.

Uh oh--there goes the 35s5. Damn.

3. I sail in the world of many sand bars, with desitinations,
anchorages, and islands that require no deep stick under a boat. Like
to keep draft to less than five feet, preferably much less.

Boats don't have sticks underneath, Frank. They are generally on top, not
down below. The stick is . . . . oh, never mind. Okay, we've established
that you need a Scheel keel, a shallow draft fin with bulb or wing, or a
keel/centerboard boat.

Sure. I never considered a keel/centerboard before, but, respected
builders like Hinkley and Bristol have done that so why not. And I
prefer to avoid the wing. In my area and with my propensity to ignore
charts, I will run aground regularly despite a shallow draft wing.
Wings are harder to get off not repsonding to one of the methods, that
is put the boat into a hard heel reducing the centerline dimension.
The wing increases it. I do at least check the tide charts to assess
my chances of getting off or spending the night and have always kept a
can of Dinty Moore beef stew aboard just in case.

4. I'm not going to live aboard, however trips of several weeks to a
month at a time are probable, so living amentities or the potential to
install the same are somewhat important. ( this does not mean room for
a home theatre)

Oh, what a shame--Bubbles will be so disappointed at the lack of a theatre
with a megawatt subwoofer and satellite speakers. But you apparently do
need some interior volume and a few liveaboard amenities, if not the full
Monty.

You see, my eyes and ears are old enough that the extra money invested
to get that incremental performance is wasted. I still can't see or
hear it very well. It is a blessing in a way.

5.I sail in hot, wet land. I don't care about AC but want good
cross and top hatch ventilation (screenable, those mosquitos like hot,
wet land also)

Screens, then. And ports and hatches--lots of those.

6. WHile I like performance, I would give up a half knot or so for
stout. Keep in mind, I had a Columbia 8.7 for a long time and failed
to ever bury her lee rail. I liked that.

You never sail in wind over 10 kts.

Certainly have. That boat was stiff. I would estimate that carrying
a 150 and a full main that thing would take 15-18 with higher gusts,
not round up and not take the lee rail awash. Now fast it wasn't.
But it was a good boat overall.

Hey, if I could knock about a foot off the draft, the Columbia 10.7
would be on the list. At least I already know all the modifications
and improvements that would need to be made. That Alan Payne guy did
a pretty good job but he screwed up a couple of things.

Okay, but you might reconsider doing
so, considering that Ma Nature doesn't really cater to your personal whims.

7. Give slight preference to at least partially skeg protected
rudder.

How about a full keel? Nothing will touch the rudder on one of those?

8. I think the change to more beam that took place in the late
seventies to early eighties was a good thing. This indicates that age
might be a factor.

Whose age? Yours or the boat's? :-)

9. PHRF not important. I don't want a dog but when I race, I prefer
to crew on someone else's boat. And for some reason, I can't tell the
difference whether I'm going 6 knots or 5.5 knots in the big scheme of
things. It is the perception of speed and power that matter.

Definitely not a 35s5, which is the fastest thing on the water these days,
according to someone.

10. I prefer classic lines. The spaceship look of the later Hunters,
and anyone who is following in those footsteps, turns me off. Must be
my age.

Probably just that you have taste and a sense of aesthetics. Those latest
boats with those pseudo-Euro arytenoid transoms are futt buckin' ugly.

11. prefer wheel steering but would retrofit. Most 35's would have it
anyway. Would retrofit to rack and pinion. That is one of the things
I can agree with Boob, Swab, matrix inhabitant, etc. It is absolutely
slick and very responsive with great feedback. But I would like a
close to nuetral (weather) helm on a full speed beam reach.

Oh sure--everyone would. It's just unlikely with a sailboat, however,
unless you don't mind some lee helm to weather.

12. for now, no price range limitations.

May we assume you're willing to pay upwards of several hundred thousand for
this boat....

You may assume that but you would be wrong.

or is there really a limitation but you're unwilling to state it?
IF the former, I've got a whole shopping list of boats for you. IF the
latter, we're going to be a bit more constricted. For the sake of this
discussion, I'll assume the latter, at least until you indicate otherwise.

Wise choice

I may never get there, but who knows, so give me your suggestion and
I'll check it out maybe add it to the search list. And I won't blast
your submission, just quietly add it to the list or reject it. Of
course, more than likely you will blast each others.

On my list so far:

Endeavour 35 - meets most requirements. Downside - draft pushes 5'
and there are not a lot of them out there available. May be some
other things, I have not done a complete analysis.

My suggestions:

1) Ericson 35--draws 5', reasonably fast, good looking, ample
accommodations for a couple plus an occasional guest or two.

2) Ericson 38--draws 5'6", fast, good looking, ample accommodations for
four.

3) Tartan 37--keel/centerboard, enabling some serious gunkholing in a
fairly large boat, fast, good looking, and ample accommodations for a couple
plus guests.

4) Pacific Seacraft Crealock 37--draws 5'6", moderately fast, attractive,
ample accommodations for a couple, even if a bit beam-challenged, built to
go anywhere.

5) Pearson 365 sloop (some were ketches)--draws 4'6", moderately fast,
attractive, ample accommodations for a couple plus guests, solid coastal
cruiser.

6) Irwin 37-38 (may be hard to find a sloop, but some were made)--draws 5',
ain't fast, ain't attractive, accommodations for four ample folks plus an
occasional guest or two, and you'll need your abilities with fiberglass on
this one. Irwins were not terribly well-constructed in this size range.
Despite that, you can see them everywhere, including crossing oceans.
(shudder!)

There are more, but this is a start. I'm sure others have good suggestions
as well.

Some very good choices as are those from the other respondees,
although the Irwins have never impressed me and my perception of the
Pacific Seacraft Crealock 37 tends to be that it is pricey and more
suited to passage than coastal cruising that just might be perception.

But it's just a damned shame that the 35s5--best boat ever created--doesn't
meet your needs. Think of it: fast as an offshore powerboat, better
looking than Brittney Spears, PHRF of -4000, accommodations for dozens,
including a toddler, fine French joinerwork, and did I mention better
looking than Brittney Spears? OH, and it has a by-God swim platform.
Please reconsider . . .

I've tried. I just can't seem to warm up to it. I'll keep trying.

Max