Maxprop wrote:
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Vito wrote:

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote

No. I believe that indoctrination over the course of one's life can be
enough to prevent someone from acting intelligently or in their own
best interests. They are not able to think independently. A good
example is a significant portion of the N. Korean population. Either
by fear or religious ferver, they are trapped.


Bad example. If the NK government disappeared, and the coercion with it,
the
NKs would join the south in a heartbeat.

Actually, there are been instances of both situations. Some people
can't change, others can.


Neither of you two seem to realize that the young folks in S. Korea (under
the age of roughly 30 or so) strongly dislike the US, and want nothing more
than a reunited Korea. Most feel the US is responsible for polarizing the
country and keeping it that way. They may be right, but chances are the
resulting united Korea would be a bit more like the north than the south.
That would be most unfortunate considering the huge economic impact on the
world that South Korea is currently experiencing.

Max


Our oldest son is a professor of English in Pusan (Busan) and has a
Korean wife. His take is that whatever we here in the States know
about Korea is corrupted by the American press. When we have
called, concerned about something that has happened over there, he
almost always laughs and says "Why do you believe that crap on the
news? It's all propoganda." And you are correct..the average S.
Korean does want reunification. The reason, though, is that they
want the cheap labor that N. Korea would afford them. When we've
asked my daughter-in-law if they would ever consider moving back
here, she smiles and shakes her head. They could not have the
lifestyle here on a professor's salary that they do there. She has
a nanny for the kids and a full time housekeeper...if N. Koreans
were let in, says she, she would be able to get help for even less
than they pay now but would stuill be paying those people more than
they have ever made before.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote
Look in a mirror. That's why you think "Jew down" offensive. Because you
hopelessly trapped in antisemetism but in denial about it.

Please take your own advice.

OK, I did. I saw a person too wise to think that there are "bad words", just
knee jerk phobics like yourself. I'm not prejudiced against any group except
FNYCrs and will gladly insult them all equally. If I can make somebody hurt or
angry (same thing) by whispering a word or phrase then I have a weapon I can use
against them should I choose. So why set yourself up to be a victim?

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote
Vito wrote:
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote
Programmed? Yes. No choice? No. All one trapped in a religion need do is
study
and get the facts about it. As a child, I was programmed to believe that I
was
guilty of Adam's original sin but that a man named Jesus Christ had started a
church and died to save me. Then I discovered that was all false. Creationism
is
a myth, but even if you buy into it Adam's punishment was that he had to work
for a living. Is the church going to take that punishment away? No! Jesus
Christ? There was no man named Jesus Christ and the person(s) we think were
did
not found modern Christianity - that was Saul of Tarsus. So, thanks to
knowledge, I'm no longer burdened by these superstitions. Then I thot to
embrace Judism - until I discovered that it was based on myth and a practical
joke. Islam? Same thing. Proving that "trapped" is like being trapped in
poverty - one is only trapped if one lacks initiative - and I have little
sympathy for lack of initiative.

You need to take a chill pill and do some research.

Oh but I have. Remember my DD. I'm not the one all worked up over a phrase,
you are. I'm merely telling you the get a thicker skin and be rid of your
prejudices for your own good. Same reason I advise you to quit NYC.

"Maxprop" wrote
Neither of you two seem to realize that the young folks in S. Korea (under
the age of roughly 30 or so) strongly dislike the US, and want nothing more
than a reunited Korea. Most feel the US is responsible for polarizing the
country and keeping it that way. They may be right, but chances are the
resulting united Korea would be a bit more like the north than the south.
That would be most unfortunate considering the huge economic impact on the
world that South Korea is currently experiencing.

I don't argue that you are right but the US had little to do with the
partition. Also S Korea isn't much more democratic than the north it's just
that the people are financially much much better off so they can afford more
freedom. A unified Korea *might* be more of an economic threat but again I'm not
sure -- the same was said about East and West Germany but the reverse has proved
true. The West nearly went bankrupt absorbing the much poorer East and the
contrast in Korea is even greater. Only time will tell.

"katy" wrote
Our oldest son is a professor of English in Pusan (Busan) and has a
Korean wife. His take is that whatever we here in the States know
about Korea is corrupted by the American press. When we have
called, concerned about something that has happened over there, he
almost always laughs and says "Why do you believe that crap on the
news? It's all propoganda." And you are correct..the average S.
Korean does want reunification. The reason, though, is that they
want the cheap labor that N. Korea would afford them. When we've
asked my daughter-in-law if they would ever consider moving back
here, she smiles and shakes her head. They could not have the
lifestyle here on a professor's salary that they do there. She has
a nanny for the kids and a full time housekeeper...if N. Koreans
were let in, says she, she would be able to get help for even less
than they pay now but would stuill be paying those people more than
they have ever made before.

Thanks for the insights. Everything we *know* is corrupted by the press.
However, as I told Max, I'm not so sure the 'cheap labor' will prove a benefit.
The West Germans felt the same way but fact is they have yet to fully recover
economically from reunification. Kick it around with your son and see what they
thing in light of the German experience.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote
Age is finally getting to you?

For sure - and it sucks.

Tolerating? What are you going to do about it, whine the dude to death?

Stand up and say it isn't right. Not back down from my belief that it
isn't right.

Ok, you'd whine them to death.

Phobia: An irrational fear or anxiety .... like a phobia about certain sounds
or
words.

So, where do you see fear or anxiety in any of my response.

I see a pavlovian response involving irrational anxiety in all of them.

No, there is nothing wrong with a *little* sensitivity but pavlovian
oversensitivity, not callousness, is the demon. Nor is there anything
wrong

So far, I haven't seen your ability to do this.

That's because you are phobic.

Oh, well, if you day so! NOT

Look at you knee jerk response to what you are conditioned to think are 'bad
words'. It's the same response as someone with a snake phobia who steps on a
snake.

There's a difference between giving language color and being offensive
for no reason. The latter is what we're talking about.

No, expressions like this cause harm, sometimes physical harm to
people if the people who use them are not called on their behavior.

I didn't say that words could not hurt some people, just that words cannot hurt
*rational* people. Someone who hates jews, for example, but is in denial, might
be offended by 'Jew down' or 'Jew book' but the pain comes from his own
prejudices not the words which bother nobody who lacks these prejudices. There
is no word you could speak that would cause me anxiety, let alone irrational
anxiety.

Sure, whatever.

I'm glad you finally agree and hope you will work on your phobias.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote
Some of your people?? Now that's funny.

Hey, I lived there during my teens and early 20s - a real home boy.

Vito wrote:
"katy" wrote

Our oldest son is a professor of English in Pusan (Busan) and has a
Korean wife. His take is that whatever we here in the States know
about Korea is corrupted by the American press. When we have
called, concerned about something that has happened over there, he
almost always laughs and says "Why do you believe that crap on the
news? It's all propoganda." And you are correct..the average S.
Korean does want reunification. The reason, though, is that they
want the cheap labor that N. Korea would afford them. When we've
asked my daughter-in-law if they would ever consider moving back
here, she smiles and shakes her head. They could not have the
lifestyle here on a professor's salary that they do there. She has
a nanny for the kids and a full time housekeeper...if N. Koreans
were let in, says she, she would be able to get help for even less
than they pay now but would stuill be paying those people more than
they have ever made before.


Thanks for the insights. Everything we *know* is corrupted by the press.
However, as I told Max, I'm not so sure the 'cheap labor' will prove a benefit.
The West Germans felt the same way but fact is they have yet to fully recover
economically from reunification. Kick it around with your son and see what they
thing in light of the German experience.


We have...difference is that in Germany you have educated people on
both sides for the most part where in N. Korea tithe labor force
coming in is illiterate...other consideration is that the graft
situation in Korea is horrendous and there is no actual middle
class...and that want it to stay that way...

Anyone who defends the use of a something so racially insensitive as the
term "jewing down" isn't worth much as a person. You need to wise up. One
would have thought that someone in his 70s, having seen the results of this
sort of behavior over the years, would be a little more worldly.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote
Look in a mirror. That's why you think "Jew down" offensive. Because
you
hopelessly trapped in antisemetism but in denial about it.

Please take your own advice.

OK, I did. I saw a person too wise to think that there are "bad words",
just
knee jerk phobics like yourself. I'm not prejudiced against any group
except
FNYCrs and will gladly insult them all equally. If I can make somebody
hurt or
angry (same thing) by whispering a word or phrase then I have a weapon I
can use
against them should I choose. So why set yourself up to be a victim?

You're supposed advanced degree means nothing. It's just a piece of paper.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote
Vito wrote:
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote
Programmed? Yes. No choice? No. All one trapped in a religion need do
is
study
and get the facts about it. As a child, I was programmed to believe that
I
was
guilty of Adam's original sin but that a man named Jesus Christ had
started a
church and died to save me. Then I discovered that was all false.
Creationism
is
a myth, but even if you buy into it Adam's punishment was that he had to
work
for a living. Is the church going to take that punishment away? No!
Jesus
Christ? There was no man named Jesus Christ and the person(s) we think
were
did
not found modern Christianity - that was Saul of Tarsus. So, thanks to
knowledge, I'm no longer burdened by these superstitions. Then I thot
to
embrace Judism - until I discovered that it was based on myth and a
practical
joke. Islam? Same thing. Proving that "trapped" is like being trapped
in
poverty - one is only trapped if one lacks initiative - and I have
little
sympathy for lack of initiative.

You need to take a chill pill and do some research.

Oh but I have. Remember my DD. I'm not the one all worked up over a
phrase,
you are. I'm merely telling you the get a thicker skin and be rid of your
prejudices for your own good. Same reason I advise you to quit NYC.