This would have required planning that he was obviously incapable of doing.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
Having a hanked on a 25% on that did not need reefing in high winds.

Joe

Joe wrote:
"Nothing or little to do" yeah right. If he did not have to go out on
the bow in the first place he would not have been knocked overboard.


How do you propose that he reduce sail out on the end of a
bowsprit, in the absence of a working roller furler?

Quite frankly, you're just being a belligerent dumb-ass here.

People have sailed around the world, literally battling Cape
Horn gales, with roller furlers. Those big steel "Wrong Way
Around" sloops have roller furlers.... of course, *those*
roller furlers get proper maintenance, while it would seem
that the boat in your story had maintnance issues with
everything. The roller furler was just one more thing on the
list.


I never said it was the reason he died, I just said roller furlers
suck.


Roller furlers suck if you're too stupid or lazy to make
sure they work properly.

Some people should not be allowed to operate any equipment
more complex than a shovel.


Seems they always fail in situations like this.

Wrong. They rarely fail in situations like this.



Hank on's rule. Tried and true, will not dis-appoint you in your moment
of need.


Why do you think a flogging, half-doused hank-on sail out at
the end of a bowsprit would be better than a roller furled one?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I have had only one a roller furl fail. That was in horrific
winds. I was able to lower the sail without any trouble.

I can't count the number of times I've counted my blessings
as my jib easy furled and got rid of my problem in seconds.

"Joe" wrote

"Nothing or little to do" yeah right. If he did not have to go out on
the bow in the first place he would not have been knocked overboard.

I never said it was the reason he died, I just said roller furlers
suck.

Seems they always fail in situations like this. Why chance a stuck
sail?

Hank on's rule. Tried and true, will not dis-appoint you in your moment
of need.

Joe

Good question Thom. What was he doing on the
leeward side of the boat? Foolish place to be, unless
his son tacked the boat somehow. What the heck was
the staysail doing up if he was over-powered and couldn't
get the jib down????

My guess is he was going to the mast to ease the jib halyard
to lower the jib or else to reef the main.

More than likely he was over canvassed with a Genoa
in the first place.

Chances are high, he was trying to furl a big headsail when
sailing into the wind.

I'd be willing to bet, that if he had turned downwind he
could have furled the sail, or at least got it down and stowed
below easier. That means sailing away from your goal, but if
done smartly, only a little distance is lost.

I see many foolish sailors sailing when they feel they have
to hurry, to get a boat hauled. Late in the season the
winds are stronger, colder, and more dangerous.

"Thom Stewart" wrote

One HUGE question with your story?

If the Father was on the Bowsprit working on a Jammed Furler; just how
in the Hell was he knocked overboard by the staysail boom?

Joe wrote:
Having a hanked on a 25% on that did not need reefing in high winds.


And I guess having one of those magic forestays that can
have a sailed hanked onto it from the cockpit would help a
lot, too.

DSK

Thinking ahead, then relying on near fail proof equipment next.

Yes.... in that order.


Joe

Bart Senior wrote:
I have had only one a roller furl fail. That was in horrific
winds. I was able to lower the sail without any trouble.


I've never had a roller furler fail.
We were sailing in company with a friend who left his
dockline laying on the foredeck, and the tail of it jammed
the rollerfurler in a T-storm.
All the cases I know of roller furlers "failing"... at
least, after about 1990... was due to either improper
installation or poor maintenance. Now, back in the 1970s and
previous, materials were not avalable to build them strong
enough & with low enough friction. Those old-timey units
were a problem.

Maybe the problem here is that in addition to a lot of
people who shouldn't be trusted with machinery more complex
than a shovel, we have a lot of people whose grasp of
materials engineering includes just two substances... wood &
iron. All else is a mystery, not to be trusted!


I can't count the number of times I've counted my blessings
as my jib easy furled and got rid of my problem in seconds.


It's a really great way to slow the boat down, clear your
field of vision, and free up crew for maneuvering in close
quarters... when docking, say for example. And you don't
have to drag wet sails into the cabin.

But in all fairness, roller furlers certainly have their limits.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I agree with you on in-mast furlers. I had snag once and it
took a long time to clear it. I had only a few options, try to
furl, or try to un-furl. The thing was mostly furled so changing
halyard tension wouldn't have helped.

Thankfully, I was in a protected harbor at Jost Van Dyke at the
time. I hate to think what I would have had to do to clear it in
strong winds. Perhaps the wind would have helped it. Still I
would rather not have that problem ever again.

In boom furling, at least, gives you the option of dropping the
sail. Not that I am a big fan of this either.

My choice is a Dutchman System, with a good track system
--which gives you all the benefits of sail shaping, as well as easy
hoisting and lowering, and the benefit of keeping the sail where
you want it.

"Joe" wrote

I learned early to reef and swap head sails before the front or bad
weather hits. It's not that hard Katy.

True...RedCloud has the to ability to power out of trouble, but that
has nothing to do with roll up failures, and Ive seen so many roll up's
shreaded it isn't funny.

Next thing your going to try to tell me in-mast rollers systems are
great.

Bwahahahahahahahaaaa.

Joe

Only this loser probably had 140 on his furler as his
only headsail.

He could have rigged a downhaul for his jib. I've heard
of people doing that, but I've never seen anyone using
such a system.

"Joe" wrote

Having a hanked on a 25% on that did not need reefing in high winds.

Joe

What kind of limits do roller furlers have Doug?

Joe