"DSK" wrote

Bart Senior wrote:
I have had only one a roller furl fail. That was in horrific
winds. I was able to lower the sail without any trouble.

I've never had a roller furler fail.
We were sailing in company with a friend who left his dockline laying on
the foredeck, and the tail of it jammed the rollerfurler in a T-storm.
All the cases I know of roller furlers "failing"... at least, after about
1990... was due to either improper installation or poor maintenance. Now,
back in the 1970s and previous, materials were not avalable to build them
strong enough & with low enough friction. Those old-timey units were a
problem.

The boat was a Soling with retro fitting furling. It was a
custom system that caused me a bit of grief. I'd taken it
apart a few times and played with it. Truthfully, it should
have been thrown out.

Joe wrote:
What kind of limits do roller furlers have Doug?


Perhaps "limits" is the wrong word. Certainly there are
limits to the amount that a roll-up sail can be effectively
reefed, and (all else being equal) a sail on a roller furler
is not as effective as one on a luff foil or hanks.

Roller furlers are a maintenance item, and they prevent
access to the pins, toggles, & turnbuckles on the forestay.
It's possible to mis-install one so that it binds the
forestay or unlays the wire, and breaks the rig.

Roller furled sails need to be properly secured. I
personally like a sleeve, that protects the sail from UV so
that it doesn't need those strips of heavy canvas along
leach & foot. Many people secure with a sail tie at the
clew, which is not as good as a sleeve but better than
nothing (which seems to be what most people do).

A good roller furler is expensive... frankly I think that's
why a lot of "crusty old salt" type sailors dislike them,
that plus their opinion of roller-furling was formed in 1965
and they haven't learned a thing since.

Roller furlers aren't perfect, but if installed & maintained
properly, they are very reliable. That's why so many
round-the-world sailors use them.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"katy" wrote i
I landed on my rear on a padeye, but it did come
down...the
bruise was very interesting...never seen taht color purple
before.


It looked more 'crimson' in the pic you sent me.

Scotty

The only bummer about the Dutchman system is that you have to put holes in
your sail.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message news
I agree with you on in-mast furlers. I had snag once and it
took a long time to clear it. I had only a few options, try to
furl, or try to un-furl. The thing was mostly furled so changing
halyard tension wouldn't have helped.

Thankfully, I was in a protected harbor at Jost Van Dyke at the
time. I hate to think what I would have had to do to clear it in
strong winds. Perhaps the wind would have helped it. Still I
would rather not have that problem ever again.

In boom furling, at least, gives you the option of dropping the
sail. Not that I am a big fan of this either.

My choice is a Dutchman System, with a good track system
--which gives you all the benefits of sail shaping, as well as easy
hoisting and lowering, and the benefit of keeping the sail where
you want it.

"Joe" wrote

I learned early to reef and swap head sails before the front or bad
weather hits. It's not that hard Katy.

True...RedCloud has the to ability to power out of trouble, but that
has nothing to do with roll up failures, and Ive seen so many roll up's
shreaded it isn't funny.

Next thing your going to try to tell me in-mast rollers systems are
great.

Bwahahahahahahahaaaa.

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Lessons From a Tragedy
Monday, February 27, 2006 - Bangor Daily News

It was a boat accident that shouldn't have happened - for several
reasons. Here's how things went wrong, as pieced together by the Coast
Guard in a final report issued recently:

A 55-year-old Stratham, N.H., man and his son, 20, started out from
Rockland last Oct. 15, a Saturday, on their 41-foot sailboat, Naobi,
for Rye, N.H., to have the boat hauled for the winter.

The forecast was for bad weather. They had trouble starting the engine
on their dinghy, and their diesel engine sputtered and died, but they
went ahead under sail. They had lifejackets and safety harnesses
onboard but never put them on. Safety flares were onboard but weren't
used.

Adequate gear and training, prudent preparation and a float plan can
save lives and prevent tragedy.

Which are the "lessons" of this tragedy. Everything you need to know about
what went wrong is in the second and third paragraphs of the post.

John Cairns

Small holes, with reinforcing patches. The monofilament is
pretty thin stuff. It is certainly not something worth complaining
about compared to other systems with bigger hassles.

"Capt. JG" wrote
The only bummer about the Dutchman system is that you have to put holes in
your sail.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote
My choice is a Dutchman System, with a good track system
--which gives you all the benefits of sail shaping, as well as easy
hoisting and lowering, and the benefit of keeping the sail where
you want it.

Yeah, I do like the system... I guess it's just the idea of having to put
holes in every new main you get. Has to be custom done for each situation
right? Also, what's the effort like if you have to remove the sail from the
boat? I don't like the standard Lazy Jacks that much because they tend to
interfere with the sails going up sometimes. They do make the more
complicated setup that moves the LJs while the sail goes up and down, but
that yet another level of complexity.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
Small holes, with reinforcing patches. The monofilament is
pretty thin stuff. It is certainly not something worth complaining
about compared to other systems with bigger hassles.

"Capt. JG" wrote
The only bummer about the Dutchman system is that you have to put holes
in your sail.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote
My choice is a Dutchman System, with a good track system
--which gives you all the benefits of sail shaping, as well as easy
hoisting and lowering, and the benefit of keeping the sail where
you want it.

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..


Quite frankly, you're just being a belligerent dumb-ass here.

Hi there, Doug. Just thought I'd remind you when you engage in name
calling, since you seem to believe you seldom or never do.

Max

Quite frankly, you're just being a belligerent dumb-ass here.


Maxprop wrote:
Hi there, Doug. Just thought I'd remind you when you engage in name
calling, since you seem to believe you seldom or never do.


Not at all... did I say I *never* do? Just rarely, and only
when justified.

To blame this accident on the roller furler is just plain
stupid. To use this incident as "proof" that roller furlers
are no good, and insist on that proof loudly, is going a few
step further.... what would you call that?

DSK

To remove a Dutchman, you lower the sail. It self
flakes. Next you lower the toping lift and disconnect
the topping lift from the wire provided for the Dutchman.
Remove the sail from the boom.

How many mains do you have for a given boat? If you are
racing, you don't need it if you have a big crew. Still I have
seenn some racing boats with Dacron sails using Dutchman's.

It really is a nice system. It works best with newer sails.
Let the sail sit flaked up for a winter and it will fall perfectly
every time.

Combine this with a track system and you can make a nice
coil of main halyard, and simply throw the rope clutch off and
the sail will fall completely down. Rarely will you have to
tug the sail down. I find that if pointed directly into the wind
with this system it falls all the way down as fast as you can
snap your fingers twice.

A Dutchman, with a good track system, and roller furling on
the headsail, means easy sail dousing. The Dutchman also
holds the sail on the boom when the sail ties are removed.
No huge mess of sail falling everywhere.

Without a doubt it is a fabulous system for shorthanded or
solo sailing.

"Capt. JG" wrote
Yeah, I do like the system... I guess it's just the idea of having to put
holes in every new main you get. Has to be custom done for each situation
right? Also, what's the effort like if you have to remove the sail from
the boat? I don't like the standard Lazy Jacks that much because they tend
to interfere with the sails going up sometimes. They do make the more
complicated setup that moves the LJs while the sail goes up and down, but
that yet another level of complexity.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
Small holes, with reinforcing patches. The monofilament is
pretty thin stuff. It is certainly not something worth complaining
about compared to other systems with bigger hassles.

"Capt. JG" wrote
The only bummer about the Dutchman system is that you have to put holes
in your sail.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote
My choice is a Dutchman System, with a good track system
--which gives you all the benefits of sail shaping, as well as easy
hoisting and lowering, and the benefit of keeping the sail where
you want it.