Heheheh... it's an important subject!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
jeeeeeze one little katytype .

Joe

made me laugh out loud with that shovel comment!

I've sailed lots of boats with this system. Large and small.
In my opinion, I would do without it.

"Dave" wrote
"Capt. JG" said:

That's strange. The system seemed to work really well, but I haven't
spoken
with an owner directly. If you happen to speak to one them, I'd be
interested in their comments.

As would I. Got a new main coming from the sail maker, and was thinking
about having the system added.

The Duthman is a partial answer at best. They are impractical for full
batten full roached mains as they need a topping lift to operate.
Sailors with full roached mains want to get RID of topping lifts,
hence the advent of solid vangs. Kind of stupid to sail with a topping
lift only for the purpose of flaking your main. A well designed
lazyjack system is the answer for all applications.

On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 20:14:01 -0500, "Bart Senior" .@. wrote:

This topic deserves it's own thread.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
To remove a Dutchman, you lower the sail. It self
flakes. Next you lower the toping lift and disconnect
the topping lift from the wire provided for the Dutchman.
Remove the sail from the boom.

How many mains do you have for a given boat? If you are
racing, you don't need it if you have a big crew. Still I have
seenn some racing boats with Dacron sails using Dutchman's.

It really is a nice system. It works best with newer sails.
Let the sail sit flaked up for a winter and it will fall perfectly
every time.

Combine this with a track system and you can make a nice
coil of main halyard, and simply throw the rope clutch off and
the sail will fall completely down. Rarely will you have to
tug the sail down. I find that if pointed directly into the wind
with this system it falls all the way down as fast as you can
snap your fingers twice.

A Dutchman, with a good track system, and roller furling on
the headsail, means easy sail dousing. The Dutchman also
holds the sail on the boom when the sail ties are removed.
No huge mess of sail falling everywhere.

Without a doubt it is a fabulous system for shorthanded or
solo sailing.

"Capt. JG" wrote
Yeah, I do like the system... I guess it's just the idea of having to put
holes in every new main you get. Has to be custom done for each situation
right? Also, what's the effort like if you have to remove the sail from
the boat? I don't like the standard Lazy Jacks that much because they
tend to interfere with the sails going up sometimes. They do make the
more complicated setup that moves the LJs while the sail goes up and
down, but that yet another level of complexity.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
Small holes, with reinforcing patches. The monofilament is
pretty thin stuff. It is certainly not something worth complaining
about compared to other systems with bigger hassles.

"Capt. JG" wrote
The only bummer about the Dutchman system is that you have to put holes
in your sail.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote
My choice is a Dutchman System, with a good track system
--which gives you all the benefits of sail shaping, as well as easy
hoisting and lowering, and the benefit of keeping the sail where
you want it.

I disagree. Personally, I sail a Freedom 36 with a 500 sf main, solid
vang and lazyjacks. The boat was never meant to have a traditional
topping lift. In fact, it was originally designed with the lazyjacks
AS the topping lift. The trend today is to fractional rigs with full
roached mains. These preclude a toppinglift due to interference with
the roach. Using a topping lift to flake your main and then have to
constantly adjust it to keep from fouling the roach is silly. If you
have and use a topping lift, the Dutchman works, if not, use lazy
jacks.

On 2 Mar 2006 12:28:13 -0600, Dave wrote:

On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 12:59:33 -0500, Marc wrote:

The Duthman is a partial answer at best. They are impractical for full
batten full roached mains as they need a topping lift to operate.
Sailors with full roached mains want to get RID of topping lifts,
hence the advent of solid vangs. Kind of stupid to sail with a topping
lift only for the purpose of flaking your main. A well designed
lazyjack system is the answer for all applications.

Foolish statement. The most that can be said based on the above is
that a lazyjack system is better if you are a racer with such a large
roach that the topping lift interferes with it.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:59:44 -0500, "Bart Senior" .@. said:

I've sailed lots of boats with this system. Large and small.
In my opinion, I would NOT do without it.

Is that last sentence what you intended to say?

Except that with full battens lasy jacks foul
unless you get them out of the way before
hoisting. That is a headache IMHO.

How many boat had full roach mains? Not
all that many.

"Marc" wrote
The Duthman is a partial answer at best. They are impractical for full
batten full roached mains as they need a topping lift to operate.
Sailors with full roached mains want to get RID of topping lifts,
hence the advent of solid vangs. Kind of stupid to sail with a topping
lift only for the purpose of flaking your main. A well designed
lazyjack system is the answer for all applications.

The only LJ system I know that doesn't foul fully roached mains adjusts as
the sail is raised and lowered. It adds complexity to the rigging of the LJ
system. I haven't tried it, but it sounds interesting. I don't know if there
would be any cost savings.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
Except that with full battens lasy jacks foul
unless you get them out of the way before
hoisting. That is a headache IMHO.

How many boat had full roach mains? Not
all that many.

"Marc" wrote
The Duthman is a partial answer at best. They are impractical for full
batten full roached mains as they need a topping lift to operate.
Sailors with full roached mains want to get RID of topping lifts,
hence the advent of solid vangs. Kind of stupid to sail with a topping
lift only for the purpose of flaking your main. A well designed
lazyjack system is the answer for all applications.