"katy" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Max, why waste sailing time? Sell the thing to someone who wants the
job and buy a better Laser hull. They are very cheap and easy to find.
I have a nice hull for 300 bucks...you're too far away though.

I want to give the boat to some kids for the purpose of learning to sail.
Hate to just throw it away. With the exception of the hull/deck bond,
it's in relatively good shape.

Max
Doante it to the Muskegon Yacht Club...the kids there fix things all the
time...

I'm perfectly capable of repairing it. I've already repaired a hole in the
hull caused by a branch penetrating during a tornado. But I want to do it
only once: the right way.

Max

Gorilla glue foams up to much. Air bubbles add no strength. It also doesn't
stick to everything.

Try West Epoxy and a syringe.

As a general rule use the best glue possible for the job. Otherwise, the
second time you do the job (and you will) you'll have to remove all the
glue.

Check the 3M website for adhesives. They have some amazing stuff. The had
some spray adhesives that held fiberglass together at over Mach 1 on
aircraft wings. (The fiberglass was not structural, it was an aperture). The
same glue could be used to adhere Katy to the outhouse seat.

Glory!



"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Maxprop wrote:

Questions:

I have an old Laser which has a hull/deck flange. The bond is lost along
quite a bit of the flange.

Do you mean that the the flange is damaged, big chunks torn out of it, or
that the area of the bond between layers is gone soft & cheesy?

.... It appears that someone attempted to rebond it with epoxy at one
time, but unsuccessfully.


It was probably considered successful, at least for a while.

My questions are these: 1) Since polyurethane adhesive, such as 3M 5200,
is often used as a hull-to-deck bonding agent on larger boats, wouldn't
polyurethane be suitable for a smaller boat, too?

Yes. A lot of people like Sikaflex better.

.... 2) The space between the two shells along the flange is too narrow
to get something as thick as 5200 to flow into it. Since Gorilla Glue is
a polyurethane adhesive, any reason it wouldn't work as well? It would
flow nicely into the space and it expands when it cures, which would fill
the space nicely.

Any opinions or experience with Gorilla?


I haven't used Gorilla Glue much, and IMHO it isn't really very strong (so
I don't plan to use it in the future). It does not fill gaps very well
either (again IMHO), seems to foam up.

The best way to repair a hull/deck joint is to seperate them and re-attach
them along the full length. Yes it's a PITA. But if you need a project for
a long winter, it's great. At some point along the way, you'll be telling
yourself 'it'd be easier to just build a d^%% boat from scratch' which
tells you you're on the right track.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Bob Crantz" wrote in

Check the 3M website for adhesives. They have some amazing
stuff. The had
some spray adhesives that held Katys' beehive together at
over Mach 1

Glory!

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"Bob Crantz" wrote in

Check the 3M website for adhesives. They have some amazing
stuff. The had
some spray adhesives that held Katys' beehive together at
over Mach 1

Glory!



The beehive tested was on a Mach1 Flying Monkey.

Bob Crantz wrote:
"Scotty" wrote in message
...
"Bob Crantz" wrote in
Check the 3M website for adhesives. They have some amazing
stuff. The had
some spray adhesives that held Katys' beehive together at
over Mach 1
Glory!


The beehive tested was on a Mach1 Flying Monkey.


mach 1, heck...it held at Mach5

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Maxprop wrote:

Questions:

I have an old Laser which has a hull/deck flange. The bond is lost along
quite a bit of the flange.

Do you mean that the the flange is damaged, big chunks torn out of it, or
that the area of the bond between layers is gone soft & cheesy?

The deck and the hull have simply separated at the flange.


.... It appears that someone attempted to rebond it with epoxy at one
time, but unsuccessfully.


It was probably considered successful, at least for a while.

A pretty sloppy job, actually. Lots of epoxy where it doesn't belong--I've
removed it already, and the epoxy failed to bond the deck and hull at the
flange.


My questions are these: 1) Since polyurethane adhesive, such as 3M 5200,
is often used as a hull-to-deck bonding agent on larger boats, wouldn't
polyurethane be suitable for a smaller boat, too?

Yes. A lot of people like Sikaflex better.

Isn't that polysulfide? Or do they make a polyurethane, too?

.... 2) The space between the two shells along the flange is too narrow
to get something as thick as 5200 to flow into it. Since Gorilla Glue is
a polyurethane adhesive, any reason it wouldn't work as well? It would
flow nicely into the space and it expands when it cures, which would fill
the space nicely.

Any opinions or experience with Gorilla?


I haven't used Gorilla Glue much, and IMHO it isn't really very strong (so
I don't plan to use it in the future). It does not fill gaps very well
either (again IMHO), seems to foam up.

The best way to repair a hull/deck joint is to seperate them and re-attach
them along the full length. Yes it's a PITA. But if you need a project for
a long winter, it's great. At some point along the way, you'll be telling
yourself 'it'd be easier to just build a d^%% boat from scratch' which
tells you you're on the right track.

The hull/deck bond is just solid enough in enough places as to render this
not an option. Some serious cutting would be required, which I have neither
the time nor the stomach for. I'd like to just rebond the flange where it
is separated. This is an "old" Laser, the racing career of which is long
over. I'd like to give it to the kids of some friends for them to learn how
to sail. But it won't hold up well if I can't fix the unbonded areas.

Max

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 02:34:14 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:

Questions:

I have an old Laser which has a hull/deck flange. The bond is lost along
quite a bit of the flange. It appears that someone attempted to rebond it
with epoxy at one time, but unsuccessfully.

My questions are these: 1) Since polyurethane adhesive, such as 3M 5200, is
often used as a hull-to-deck bonding agent on larger boats, wouldn't
polyurethane be suitable for a smaller boat, too? 2) The space between the
two shells along the flange is too narrow to get something as thick as 5200
to flow into it. Since Gorilla Glue is a polyurethane adhesive, any reason
it wouldn't work as well? It would flow nicely into the space and it
expands when it cures, which would fill the space nicely.

Any opinions or experience with Gorilla?

TIA,

Max



I would not use Gorilla glue. It expands but if the cracks are too
big it expands in the maner of an expanding foam and offers no real
strength in the crack or is it likely to be a waterproof seal.

wear gloves if you use Gorilla glue for any purpose. If it cures on
your hands they will turn black and only time will remove it.

Frank

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 02:34:14 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:

Questions:

I have an old Laser which has a hull/deck flange. The bond is lost along
quite a bit of the flange. It appears that someone attempted to rebond it
with epoxy at one time, but unsuccessfully.

My questions are these: 1) Since polyurethane adhesive, such as 3M 5200,
is
often used as a hull-to-deck bonding agent on larger boats, wouldn't
polyurethane be suitable for a smaller boat, too? 2) The space between
the
two shells along the flange is too narrow to get something as thick as
5200
to flow into it. Since Gorilla Glue is a polyurethane adhesive, any
reason
it wouldn't work as well? It would flow nicely into the space and it
expands when it cures, which would fill the space nicely.

Any opinions or experience with Gorilla?

TIA,

Max



I would not use Gorilla glue. It expands but if the cracks are too
big it expands in the maner of an expanding foam and offers no real
strength in the crack or is it likely to be a waterproof seal.

wear gloves if you use Gorilla glue for any purpose. If it cures on
your hands they will turn black and only time will remove it.

This seems to be the consensus. Back to West System epoxy.

Thanks, everyone.

Max

Maxprop wrote:
This seems to be the consensus. Back to West System epoxy.


It's not the cheapest stuff, but it's tried & true.

One way to fix this type of joint is to grind the gelcoat
off the outside and wrap fiberglass tape around it. Fill
gaps with silica filler (WS 406) and then slurry over that
with microfibers (WS 403), then fiberglass tape. When
sanding it smooth, don't cut thru the cloth any more than
you can help it.

If you want it really strong, use a light biaxial tape such
used for airplane kits. I used some of this stuff for the
first time

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog...b58f72751 4db

or

http://tinyurl.com/nd2o3

and found it to be outstanding to work with... wraps easily,
wets out very evenly, strong enough for a battleship. The
Cadillace way to do it would be a strip of 1" then a strip
of 2" over it.

It still won't be as strong as cutting the hull free from
the deck and rebonding them, but it should be a lot quicker.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Maxprop wrote:
This seems to be the consensus. Back to West System epoxy.


It's not the cheapest stuff, but it's tried & true.

I recently bought new cans of the stuff, so I'm equipped.


One way to fix this type of joint is to grind the gelcoat off the outside
and wrap fiberglass tape around it. Fill gaps with silica filler (WS 406)
and then slurry over that with microfibers (WS 403), then fiberglass tape.
When sanding it smooth, don't cut thru the cloth any more than you can
help it.

If you want it really strong, use a light biaxial tape such used for
airplane kits. I used some of this stuff for the first time

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog...b58f72751 4db

or

http://tinyurl.com/nd2o3

and found it to be outstanding to work with... wraps easily, wets out very
evenly, strong enough for a battleship. The Cadillace way to do it would
be a strip of 1" then a strip of 2" over it.

It still won't be as strong as cutting the hull free from the deck and
rebonding them, but it should be a lot quicker.

Thanks, Doug.

Max