wrote in message
...
Funny, I've been looking at the MacGregor


Yeah, they are kinda funny looking.




for a while now as a potential
purchase. I would really like a sail boat but the family
wants a power
boat. I occasionally sail on a friends 1929(?) wood hull
sailboat and
that is the life for me. My family likes our other
friends 21 ft
Chris-Craft.


We used to go camping with a family that had a power boat.
My wife & kids would go sking with him while his wife and
kids went sailing with me. Worked out great.




It seems to me that sailors don't like it because it's not
a "real"
sailboat. Powerboaters don't like it because it isn't a
"real" power
boat and then there are those with them who more or less
seem to like
them. I have heard some say it bobs like a cork under
sail and that the
hull is weak.


They are ''lightly built'', makes them easier to trailer and
cheaper to buy. IMHO they are good for lakes and protected
waters.


Certainly there are compromises made just like an enduro
will never be a
great dirt bike or a great road bike but, it has it's
place. The
question is, how is the MacGregor? I'd like to do coastal
sailing in
Southern California. I probably would never venture
farther than
Catalina or the channel islands. I'd also like to sail
some of the
lakes like havasu, Powell, etc. so the trailerability of
the MacGregor
is appealing. Family of 4 up to 1 week trips once or
twice a year. I
wouldn't consider myself the fair weather type; as skills
progress I'd
sail year around in as much weather as the ship and her
captain are
capable of.


Buy a better sailing trailerable. Rent jet-skis for your
kids.

Seriously, can you afford a small sail boat AND a small
power boat?


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_

lid wrote:

Funny, I've been looking at the MacGregor for a while now as a potential
purchase. I would really like a sail boat but the family wants a power
boat. I occasionally sail on a friends 1929(?) wood hull sailboat and
that is the life for me. My family likes our other friends 21 ft
Chris-Craft.

It seems to me that sailors don't like it because it's not a "real"
sailboat. Powerboaters don't like it because it isn't a "real" power
boat and then there are those with them who more or less seem to like
them. I have heard some say it bobs like a cork under sail and that the
hull is weak.

Certainly there are compromises made just like an enduro will never be a
great dirt bike or a great road bike but, it has it's place. The
question is, how is the MacGregor? I'd like to do coastal sailing in
Southern California. I probably would never venture farther than
Catalina or the channel islands. I'd also like to sail some of the
lakes like havasu, Powell, etc. so the trailerability of the MacGregor
is appealing. Family of 4 up to 1 week trips once or twice a year. I
wouldn't consider myself the fair weather type; as skills progress I'd
sail year around in as much weather as the ship and her captain are
capable of.

Opinions?
Carl


Before getting our 26M, I had experience over some 30 years sailing a
number of larger, conventional boats, including an Endeavor 32, a
Beneteau 39, O'Day 38-39, several Catalinas, a Cal 32, and a 40-ft
Valiant staysail-rigged sloop (my favorite). So, I am well-aware that
the Mac 26M has limitations when compared to such larger, conventional
boats. It it's hull speed isn't as great, and it normally doesn't point
as high, as heavy conventional-keel boats with longer waterlines, such
as the Valiant 40. On the other hand, the 26M is a lot of fun to sail,
and it offers a number of capabilies not available on most conventional
vessels.

As with any small, light boat, it's not as comfortable in heavy weather
conditions as a heavier, conventional weighted keel vessel. So, if your
plans entail taking the boat offshore on extended cruises, I would
suggest you look at larger, heavier boats. Because of its size, I
wouldn't plan on sleeping five or six people onboard for several weeks.
Regarding the "feel" of the Mac's steering, many of us have installed a
linkage system permitting convenient "quick disconnect" of the steering
linkage from the motor, which greatly reduces the load on the steering
and enhances the "feel" and control under sail. I would also recommend
roller furling and convenient mainsail furling, with lines led aft.

As you have noticed, there are lots of opinions, pro and con, concerning
the Macs. In evaluating them, I would suggest that you give greater
attention to comments from folks who have actually sailed the current
Mac 26 model (the Mac 26M, sold since 2003). Changes in the current
model include a new hull with heavier construction, a vertically
adjustable dagger board (rather than a pivotal keel), ballast consisting
of permanent and water ballast (rather than just water ballast),
rotatable mast, taller mast and narrower mainsail profile, new chain
plate construction, etc. The vertically adjustable dagger board, for
example, provides better control and higher pointing than the pivotal
keel of older Mac boats. Although the Mac26M still isn't as good upwind
as a larger boat with conventional, weighted keel, and (horrors), some
larger boats may pass you, the boat is still lots of fun to sail. It's
also fun to motor back to the marina at 15 knots at the end of a long
hot day when the wind has gone or is in your face.

Obviously, you can't trailer a heavy boat such as the 40-foot Valiant
easily to another sailing location, and there are places the Mac can go
that the Valiant couldn't. Regarding it's speed under power, if you want
to do 20mph easily with full load and water ballast, some Mac owners are
opting for a 70hp 2-cycle (lightweight) or larger motor.

Ultimately, it boils down to what you want to do with the boat and
what's important to you. If you have unlimited funds, then getting a
power boat and a large, conventional sailboat, and paying for slips for
each, makes sense.

The bottom line to me is that it's simply fun (and convenient) to sail.

Jim

lid wrote:

Funny, I've been looking at the MacGregor for a while now as a potential
purchase. I would really like a sail boat but the family wants a power
boat. I occasionally sail on a friends 1929(?) wood hull sailboat and
that is the life for me. My family likes our other friends 21 ft
Chris-Craft.

It seems to me that sailors don't like it because it's not a "real"
sailboat. Powerboaters don't like it because it isn't a "real" power
boat and then there are those with them who more or less seem to like
them. I have heard some say it bobs like a cork under sail and that the
hull is weak.

Certainly there are compromises made just like an enduro will never be a
great dirt bike or a great road bike but, it has it's place. The
question is, how is the MacGregor? I'd like to do coastal sailing in
Southern California. I probably would never venture farther than
Catalina or the channel islands. I'd also like to sail some of the
lakes like havasu, Powell, etc. so the trailerability of the MacGregor
is appealing. Family of 4 up to 1 week trips once or twice a year. I
wouldn't consider myself the fair weather type; as skills progress I'd
sail year around in as much weather as the ship and her captain are
capable of.

Opinions?
Carl


Before getting our 26M, I had experience, over some 30 years, sailing a
number of larger, conventional boats, including an Endeavor 32, a
Beneteau 39, O'Day 38-39, several Catalinas, a Cal 32, and a 40-ft
Valiant staysail-rigged sloop (my favorite). So, I am well-aware that
the Mac 26M has some limitations when compared to such larger,
conventional boats. It it's hull speed isn't as great, and it normally
doesn't point as high, as heavy conventional-keel boats with longer
waterlines, such as the Valiant 40. On the other hand, the 26M offers a
number of capabilies not available on most conventional
vessels.

As with any small, light boat, it's not as comfortable in heavy weather
conditions as a heavier, conventional weighted keel vessel. So, if your
plans entail taking the boat offshore on extended cruises, I would
suggest you look at larger, heavier boats. Because of its size, I
don't think you should plan on sleeping five or six people onboard for
several weeks. Regarding the "feel" of the Mac's steering, many of us
have installed a linkage system permitting convenient "quick disconnect"
of the steering linkage from the motor, which greatly reduces the load
on the steering and enhances the "feel" and control under sail. I would
also recommend roller furling and convenient mainsail furling, with
lines led aft.

As you have noticed, there are lots of opinions, pro and con, concerning
the Macs. In evaluating them, I would suggest that you give greater
attention to comments from folks who have actually sailed the current
Mac 26 model (the Mac 26M, sold since 2003). Changes in the current
model include a new hull with heavier construction, a vertically
adjustable dagger board (rather than a pivotal keel), ballast consisting
of permanent and water ballast (rather than just water ballast),
rotatable mast, taller mast and narrower mainsail profile, new chain
plate construction, etc. The vertically adjustable dagger board, for
example, provides better control and higher pointing than the pivotal
keel of older Mac boats. So, the Mac26M still isn't as fast upwind
as a larger boat with conventional, weighted keel, and (horrors), some
larger boats may pass you, the boat, it's still lots of fun to sail.
It's also fun to motor back to the marina at 15 knots at the end of a
long hot day when the wind has gone or is in your face.

Obviously, you can't trailer a heavy boat such as the 40-foot Valiant
easily to another sailing location, and there are places the Mac can go
that the Valiant couldn't. Regarding it's speed under power, if you want
to do 20mph easily with full load and water ballast, some Mac owners are
opting for a 70hp 2-cycle (lightweight) or larger motor.

Ultimately, it boils down to what you want to do with the boat and
what's important to you. If you have unlimited funds, then getting a
power boat and a large, conventional sailboat, and paying for slips for
each, makes sense.

The bottom line to me is that it's simply fun (and convenient) to sail.

Jim

I think perhaps you're missing the point in some respects. While *you* may
have varied and deep experience with sailing, *most* Mac owners don't. This
is probably true of most new boat owners, of course. And, the point is that
these new owners with little or no sailing experience are not getting a boat
that can stand up to many of the rigors of what one can encounter. The boats
should be used primarily in protected waters in mild conditions. That
doesn't mean you can't do more with them. That's true off all boats. These
new owners with limited or no experience are in danger of getting in over
their heads if they think these boats are up to sailing in conditions beyond
protected and mild.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"JimC" wrote in message
. ..


lid wrote:

Funny, I've been looking at the MacGregor for a while now as a potential
purchase. I would really like a sail boat but the family wants a power
boat. I occasionally sail on a friends 1929(?) wood hull sailboat and
that is the life for me. My family likes our other friends 21 ft
Chris-Craft.

It seems to me that sailors don't like it because it's not a "real"
sailboat. Powerboaters don't like it because it isn't a "real" power
boat and then there are those with them who more or less seem to like
them. I have heard some say it bobs like a cork under sail and that the
hull is weak.

Certainly there are compromises made just like an enduro will never be a
great dirt bike or a great road bike but, it has it's place. The
question is, how is the MacGregor? I'd like to do coastal sailing in
Southern California. I probably would never venture farther than
Catalina or the channel islands. I'd also like to sail some of the lakes
like havasu, Powell, etc. so the trailerability of the MacGregor is
appealing. Family of 4 up to 1 week trips once or twice a year. I
wouldn't consider myself the fair weather type; as skills progress I'd
sail year around in as much weather as the ship and her captain are
capable of.

Opinions?
Carl


Before getting our 26M, I had experience, over some 30 years, sailing a
number of larger, conventional boats, including an Endeavor 32, a
Beneteau 39, O'Day 38-39, several Catalinas, a Cal 32, and a 40-ft
Valiant staysail-rigged sloop (my favorite). So, I am well-aware that
the Mac 26M has some limitations when compared to such larger,
conventional boats. It it's hull speed isn't as great, and it normally
doesn't point as high, as heavy conventional-keel boats with longer
waterlines, such as the Valiant 40. On the other hand, the 26M offers a
number of capabilies not available on most conventional
vessels.

As with any small, light boat, it's not as comfortable in heavy weather
conditions as a heavier, conventional weighted keel vessel. So, if your
plans entail taking the boat offshore on extended cruises, I would
suggest you look at larger, heavier boats. Because of its size, I
don't think you should plan on sleeping five or six people onboard for
several weeks. Regarding the "feel" of the Mac's steering, many of us have
installed a linkage system permitting convenient "quick disconnect" of the
steering linkage from the motor, which greatly reduces the load on the
steering and enhances the "feel" and control under sail. I would also
recommend roller furling and convenient mainsail furling, with lines led
aft.

As you have noticed, there are lots of opinions, pro and con, concerning
the Macs. In evaluating them, I would suggest that you give greater
attention to comments from folks who have actually sailed the current
Mac 26 model (the Mac 26M, sold since 2003). Changes in the current
model include a new hull with heavier construction, a vertically
adjustable dagger board (rather than a pivotal keel), ballast consisting
of permanent and water ballast (rather than just water ballast),
rotatable mast, taller mast and narrower mainsail profile, new chain
plate construction, etc. The vertically adjustable dagger board, for
example, provides better control and higher pointing than the pivotal
keel of older Mac boats. So, the Mac26M still isn't as fast upwind
as a larger boat with conventional, weighted keel, and (horrors), some
larger boats may pass you, the boat, it's still lots of fun to sail. It's
also fun to motor back to the marina at 15 knots at the end of a long hot
day when the wind has gone or is in your face.

Obviously, you can't trailer a heavy boat such as the 40-foot Valiant
easily to another sailing location, and there are places the Mac can go
that the Valiant couldn't. Regarding it's speed under power, if you want
to do 20mph easily with full load and water ballast, some Mac owners are
opting for a 70hp 2-cycle (lightweight) or larger motor.

Ultimately, it boils down to what you want to do with the boat and
what's important to you. If you have unlimited funds, then getting a
power boat and a large, conventional sailboat, and paying for slips for
each, makes sense.

The bottom line to me is that it's simply fun (and convenient) to sail.

Jim

Capt. JG wrote:

I think perhaps you're missing the point in some respects. While *you* may
have varied and deep experience with sailing, *most* Mac owners don't. This
is probably true of most new boat owners, of course. And, the point is that
these new owners with little or no sailing experience are not getting a boat
that can stand up to many of the rigors of what one can encounter. The boats
should be used primarily in protected waters in mild conditions. That
doesn't mean you can't do more with them. That's true off all boats. These
new owners with limited or no experience are in danger of getting in over
their heads if they think these boats are up to sailing in conditions beyond
protected and mild.





As stated on November 5 ("Yesterday's Sail"), I agree that most
MacGregor owners probably aren't as experienced as owners of larger
boats. And that could be a cause for concern if they don't have enough
training, know-how, and experience to avoid getting into conditions
beyond their skill levels or the boats' capabilities. On the whole,
however, I think that most (not all) MacGregor owners are aware of those
limitations and are aware of the fact that the Macs aren't intended as
ocean crossing boats suited for sailing in heavy offshore weather.
(Actually, I think most Mac owners are somewhat overcautious about
taking their boats out in marginal conditions.) Of course, there will
always be exceptions who either don't know what they are doing or don't
care about the safety factors.

The point of mentioning my prior sailing experience on larger boats was
to make it clear that my opinion of the Mac isn't the opinion of a new
sailor who has no experience on other boats and therefore no reference
for comparison. As stated before, I do recognize that the Macs have
limitations, that they normally don't sail upwind as well as larger,
conventional keel boats, and that they aren't suited for every application.

Jim

"JimC" wrote
| Ultimately, it boils down to what you want to do with the boat and
| what's important to you. If you have unlimited funds, then getting a
| power boat and a large, conventional sailboat, and paying for slips for
| each, makes sense.

It's a good boat if you want to go out and have people pointing at you behind your back
and laughing and thinking to themselves, "What an idiot!" And, "He coulda spent that money
on a good used sailboat and had something to be proud of." And, "I guess he doesn't care
about safety." "I guess he has no idea how silly he looks to everybody." Did you ever look
real good at a knee boarder. He's looking like some kinda retarded cripple bouncing up and
down at the end of a string. That's what Mac26s look like to me.....
JimC, maybe a person who doesn't care what other people think. But, I doubt it. If you
were you wouldn't spend so much time here trying to convince people that Mac26s are
anything but the *retarded cripple* of sailboats.

Cheers,
Ellen

Ellen MacArthur wrote:

"JimC" wrote
| Ultimately, it boils down to what you want to do with the boat and
| what's important to you. If you have unlimited funds, then getting a
| power boat and a large, conventional sailboat, and paying for slips for
| each, makes sense.

It's a good boat if you want to go out and have people pointing at you behind your back
and laughing and thinking to themselves, "What an idiot!" And, "He coulda spent that money
on a good used sailboat and had something to be proud of." And, "I guess he doesn't care
about safety." "I guess he has no idea how silly he looks to everybody." Did you ever look
real good at a knee boarder. He's looking like some kinda retarded cripple bouncing up and
down at the end of a string. That's what Mac26s look like to me.....
JimC, maybe a person who doesn't care what other people think. But, I doubt it. If you
were you wouldn't spend so much time here trying to convince people that Mac26s are
anything but the *retarded cripple* of sailboats.

Actually, it takes at least two people to keep a discussion going,
Ellen. If you don't like my comments, you don't have to answer them. In
fact, you don't even have to read them. If you weren't so obviously
frustrated because you keep getting your ass kicked all over the ng, you
would have lost interest in Mac discussions long ago.

Jim

Jim... fyi, Ellen=Neal

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"JimC" wrote in message
m...


Ellen MacArthur wrote:

"JimC" wrote | Ultimately, it boils down to what
you want to do with the boat and | what's important to you. If you have
unlimited funds, then getting a | power boat and a large, conventional
sailboat, and paying for slips for | each, makes sense.

It's a good boat if you want to go out and have people pointing at
you behind your back and laughing and thinking to themselves, "What an
idiot!" And, "He coulda spent that money on a good used sailboat and had
something to be proud of." And, "I guess he doesn't care about safety."
"I guess he has no idea how silly he looks to everybody." Did you ever
look
real good at a knee boarder. He's looking like some kinda retarded
cripple bouncing up and down at the end of a string. That's what Mac26s
look like to me.....
JimC, maybe a person who doesn't care what other people think. But, I
doubt it. If you were you wouldn't spend so much time here trying to
convince people that Mac26s are
anything but the *retarded cripple* of sailboats.

Actually, it takes at least two people to keep a discussion going, Ellen.
If you don't like my comments, you don't have to answer them. In fact, you
don't even have to read them. If you weren't so obviously frustrated
because you keep getting your ass kicked all over the ng, you would have
lost interest in Mac discussions long ago.

Jim

"JimC" wrote
| Actually, it takes at least two people to keep a discussion going,
| Ellen. If you don't like my comments, you don't have to answer them. In
| fact, you don't even have to read them. If you weren't so obviously
| frustrated because you keep getting your ass kicked all over the ng, you
| would have lost interest in Mac discussions long ago.

But I like your comments. They're so typical. They sound just like anybody who's trying to
talk himself into believing he didn't screw up royally. You can hear comments like you make
all the time. It can be about a boat, a car, a movie, a hamburger. It can be about anything you
spend money on. Only difference is the more money people spend the harder they try to
convince themselves they spent it wisely. You musta paid a million dollars for your Mac26. :-)

Cheers,
Ellen

lid wrote:

Funny, I've been looking at the MacGregor for a while now as a potential
purchase. I would really like a sail boat but the family wants a power
boat. I occasionally sail on a friends 1929(?) wood hull sailboat and
that is the life for me. My family likes our other friends 21 ft
Chris-Craft.

It seems to me that sailors don't like it because it's not a "real"
sailboat. Powerboaters don't like it because it isn't a "real" power
boat and then there are those with them who more or less seem to like
them. I have heard some say it bobs like a cork under sail and that the
hull is weak.

Certainly there are compromises made just like an enduro will never be a
great dirt bike or a great road bike but, it has it's place. The
question is, how is the MacGregor? I'd like to do coastal sailing in
Southern California. I probably would never venture farther than
Catalina or the channel islands. I'd also like to sail some of the
lakes like havasu, Powell, etc. so the trailerability of the MacGregor
is appealing. Family of 4 up to 1 week trips once or twice a year. I
wouldn't consider myself the fair weather type; as skills progress I'd
sail year around in as much weather as the ship and her captain are
capable of.

Opinions?
Carl


Carl,

FYI, here are some comments from some guys who have actually bought (and
sailed) a Mac 26M, when asked what they thought about the boat and
whether they would buy the same boat again:

----------------------------------------------------------------
If the clock could be turned back, would you buy again? - Yes,she's a
great versatile boat that offers great options on sailing or powering. I
have towed the kids with a tube and the Mac behaves well. All my sailing
so far, has been on the Mediterranean with light winds in the morning
and a heavier in the afternoon.She sails well in both conditions. I was
caught out in a 25knot wind and motored back through the chop.No problems

The boat's best features: Sailing ability.She sails as well as any boat
costing double the price I have sailed on. The kids love powering more
than sailing though. Good interior for short stays.All maintance can be
carried out by the owner which saves a lot on repair bills.There are
plenty of helpful owners out there willing to help with problems. There
is nothing complicated about the boat regarding hardware and design.

The 26M is a practical fun boat that can be used for serious sailing
without the major costs involved.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The boat's best features: She doesn't pound in 3 foot rollers at speeds
of 14- 16 mph. She will sail well with just the main. Lots of room in
the cabin. easy to sail and adjust for heavy air. will make the 35 miles
to catalina in 2 and a half hours under power. She feels safe and
comfortable when sailing. Looking at the boat you would guess that the
freeboard would be concern as to boarding a dingy. but if you go off the
stern and use the engine as a seat to swing into the dingy this works
perfect. right height and very stable.

Fun fun fun. That's what she was made for plain and simple. Not a world
cruiser - a day sailor, a very good day sailor. The MacGregor seems to
upset the snob sailor a bit there is very little respect from the true
sailor out there, but the boat is a hybrid and does its job well. There
is something to be said about going to Catalina and arriving 2 or 3
hours ahead of the fastest sail boats out there. And then enjoying the 7
hour sail back as a good sailor. I like mine, don't care what others
think and will be out there as much as possible please say hi when the
"A GUST A" sails near you.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------




----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I posted a review just after I bought this boat. I have now had it two
years and thought reviewing it again with experience might be
interesting. Yes, I would definitely buy this boat again. I now sail
solo some of the time; my regular crew, my father in law, passed away
last summer, but he had no trouble handling the boat at 84.

The boat's best features: Versatility. Once you get used to it, she is
a very reassuring boat. It will heel quite easily to 15-20 degrees, but
at this point, it starts to lift the water ballast tank out of the water
and so stiffens up and does not heel much more. Versatility also extends
to sailing - it handles well with just the main, and will also go well
with the jib. Strong following wind and sea = no main, use genoa - this
allows you to sail comfortably at 135 degrees from the wind. The genoa
is pulling upwards, so reduces pitching; no danger of gybing, and much
less yawing as the drive from the sails is well forward. I have also
achieved 3-4 knots on a reach with just one third of the genoa and no
main - we actually measured both up and down the river to be able to
deduct the tide from this. In anything from F4 and above, I have
generally found that reducing sail area quite a lot e.g. taking the
genoa in leaving just the main will only lose about 1 knot of speed, or
using my smaller main BUT make the boat a much smoother sail. We did
make one trip, under motor only, which turned out to be a F7. Because of
our particular bit of coast - shallow water and a long fetch, we get
very short steep waves. The lightness of the Macgregor shows then, and
even at 3 knots you can be taking off the tops of some of the waves. She
still felt safe.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The boat's best features: The nice sailing spots in the bay are far
from where I keep the boat. The 26 M's flexibility enables me to shorten
an 8 hour cruise to 4 hours.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have read many things on the web against the macgregor. Frankly i
don't know what the _____ they are talking about. I could not imagine
having any other boat. I love her and if i would have had her 20 years
ago I would of never gotten married.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If the clock could be turned back, would you buy again? - Yes. This is
a 2005 MacGregor purchased middle of 2004. Most definitely would
purchase again. Vessel purchased with roller furling on 150 jenny; lazy
jacks; main halyard led aft; bimini; other less consequential amenities.
Gear that's been added: Uniden VHF with WHAM; Depth sounder; Garmin
276C GPS; shore power; LCD TV; mini microwave/convection oven.
Structural or complex improvements: Added shore power.

The boat's best features: Easy to sail and forgiving, excellent
handling under power. Mast raising system is as advertised and a
pleasure. While rigging is neither arduous or difficult, it is time
consuming, but not an issue for me since I keep the vessel in a slip.
The vessel is comfortable for our use, which tends to two adults and
(occasionally) a grandson.

----------------------------------------------------------------