"JimC" wrote in message
. net...


Capt. JG wrote:
Yes, that's my point... I like to play what-if games when sailing...like
what if the engine dies? Can I get back to something resembling a
safe-haven without the engine... is the ebb so strong that in light winds
I'll have a problem if the engine dies...

I wonder if he contemplates reaching for the engine if there's an MOB?


That's not the way he was trained, so I don't think that's what he would
do. - More likely, he would throw a float to the mob, appoint a watch, and
quickly go through a figure-eight maneuver under sail.

Jim



He? Oh, Jim. I get it. You're going to "appoint a watch"? I wouldn't suggest
it. When is the F8 not appropriate? When is it appropriate? Should you never
use the engine? If you should, when?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"JimC" wrote in message
. net...

. On the other hand, I
personally don't want to SAIL out in ANY conditions.

Jim

Well then, you bought the right boat.

S

"Seahag" wrote in message
...



We;d kull you...deader than a doornail....and pin your
skin to the yardarm....

Might need it for a spinnaker to outrun Jonathan!


What about the 'big hole' in the middle?

"JimC" wrote in message
t...

Looks like you erased all my remarks POSTED IN THAT
DISCUSSION



That was the only merciful thing to do.

"JimC" wrote in message
t...
Jeff, despite all your ranting and ravings, repeated ad
nauseum, the
following is still true:


1. the Mac 26 XM sucks!

2. the Mac 26 XM is NOT a sailboat.

3. I are a idiot.

4. There should be an open season on lawyers.

Jimbo C.

Oiy!

Seahag wrote:



Yo Ho Ho !.

We'd give you a tomato broadside! Har har.

But then you'd have to drop the sail you're holding up with your arms,
since your spars are back at the yard! ;-)

snort...catch up...snort

See above r.e. lack of spars = lack of speed, no?

Cheers
Marty
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Scotty wrote:
"Seahag" wrote in message
...

We;d kull you...deader than a doornail....and pin your
skin to the yardarm....

Might need it for a spinnaker to outrun Jonathan!



What about the 'big hole' in the middle?


sail tape....

Martin Baxter wrote:
Seahag wrote:


Yo Ho Ho !.

We'd give you a tomato broadside! Har har.


But then you'd have to drop the sail you're holding up with your arms,
since your spars are back at the yard! ;-)

I'm taller s I have to be the sail holder upper....and she has better
aim...so it all works out well...


snort...catch up...snort


See above r.e. lack of spars = lack of speed, no?

Cheers
Marty

JimC wrote:
Yes, this one has had me thinking some. I understand Jim's point that
the high freeboard can cause a bit of a problem. However, the small
sail area on the boat only generates a limited amount of power. I
can't find my reference (Gere's book) but I think all he could count
on from his sails in 14 kts would be around 6 HP. Even doubling the
wind only brings it up to 24 HP. Certainly others of his size, such
as Neal's banana boat, can get up to hull speed with an engine under
10 hp.

The small sail area generates limited power, but the freeboard is rather
large, and under heavy winds, it can also generate "power".
Additionally, the boat is lightweight, has no weighted keel, etc.

Yes, I appreciate that your boat has problems that could be considered
"lack of seaworthiness."





So claiming that 50 hp is required to power the boat is essentially
claiming that the boat would be unmanageable under sail. In other
words, the big engine would allow to get offshore fast, but then
you're in deep **** if it died, because the sails do not generate
enough power to get you back.

First, I'm not saying that you "need 50 hp to power the boat." You could
probably get by with 15 - 25. I do think that you need something larger
than the typical 5 - 10 hp often used on boats of this size,

The problem here is that the sails don't generate much more than 5-10
HP. Actually, at 20 knots your full sail would generate 17 hp, but
you already told us that even at 15 knots you need to reef the sails.

The actual engine that would be appropriate for a boat your size would
be about 10 Hp, though with outboards you can generally get a 15 for
the same weight as a 10.

As I've mentioned most of my sisterships are powered by twin 9.9
outboards. These boats are considerably larger than yours, with a lot
of windage and no ballast. Many of them (in fact all of them, since
they are rather difficult to put on a trailer) have done extended
trips under power.

and that
having a large motor provides reserve power and additional control that
is nice to have in severe conditions. The 50 hp is needed if you want to
plane with full load, but I think 20 hp would probably be enough for
getting through most heavy weather conditions.

If that is true, you're saying that the boat is unmanageable under
sail in heavy weather. This is quite disturbing - I've never been on
a sailboat billed as a "cruising boat" that could not be trusted under
sail in winds up to 40 knots or more. This was a lesson learned early
on, when we had to sail off the anchor on a dangerous lee shore.

I'm not claiming that when push came to shove I wouldn't appreciate an
engine, the bigger the better. But the boat should be able to handle
anything under sail, and you're claiming it can't.



As to getting back if the motor failed, I think the boat would get back
safely with reduced sail under most conditions. - In the Mac discussion
groups, other Mac owners speak of their boats performing well (though
not comfortably) in some pretty wild conditions, and I don't recall
hearing about any who couldn't get back to shore. On the other hand, I
personally don't want to head out in known severe or threatening
conditions.

So now you're saying that the boat can handle heavy weather, but it
isn't fun. Sorry Jim, you can have this both ways. You've said many
times that the boat is "fun to sail" but its well known that the Mac
is very slow in light air (with ballast) and here you're saying its
not fun in heavy air. So I guess it fun as long as the wind is
between 14.5 and 15.5 knots.

Capt. JG wrote:
"JimC" wrote in message
. net...


Capt. JG wrote:

Yes, that's my point... I like to play what-if games when sailing...like
what if the engine dies? Can I get back to something resembling a
safe-haven without the engine... is the ebb so strong that in light winds
I'll have a problem if the engine dies...

I wonder if he contemplates reaching for the engine if there's an MOB?


That's not the way he was trained, so I don't think that's what he would
do. - More likely, he would throw a float to the mob, appoint a watch, and
quickly go through a figure-eight maneuver under sail.

Jim



He? Oh, Jim. I get it. You're going to "appoint a watch"? I wouldn't suggest
it. When is the F8 not appropriate? When is it appropriate? Should you never
use the engine? If you should, when?



A watch, meaning someone who would keep an eye on the mob. - I would
use the engine if my crappy Mac 26M couldn't come about near the mob or
was being blown all over the place by a stiff 10-mph wind.

Jim