Jeff wrote:

DSK wrote:

JimC wrote:

(Helpful hint: Since you won't have any substantive answers, just
avoid answering the questions. - Post some more propaganda.)


You mean like "the Mac 26 will arrive ahead of the fastest sailboat"?

Of course, I never claimed that it would sail faster than other boats.

Or maybe your references to how the water ballast "begins to work
after being lifted above the waterline"?

Where did I say this? - That wasn't my comment at all. - As explained
above.

Cast that beam out of thy eye, Jim!

Glad to. As soon as you start quoting what I said, rather than what you
think I said.

stability analysis of the 26M/X. It certainly has a high center of
gravity, and the metacentric height has to be pretty low.

It operates on the same principle (ballast carried within the the hull,
in the lower portion of the hull) as most ocean-going vessels. And the
same principle used in tall ships for hundreds of years.



And the other issue is that the water ballast extends all the way from
stem to stern. This can't be helping the pitching moment at all.

Wrong again. it extends about 2/3rds, and the front and rear portions of
the tank taper to sharp end portions and are therefore of little mass
and no real consequence re the distribution of mass.

Jim

CJH wrote:

DSK wrote:


But he won't do more sailing than any other trailerable sailboat,
he'll just go slower and have a harder time steering. Why do people
have to act like the Mac26 is the *only* trailerable sailboat?


Sorry, just catching up. I couldn't find my thread. No I haven't
joined the cult just yet. There are too many things to consider and
will have analysis paralysis for a while. So what are the
recommendations for other trailerable sailboats suitable for a family of
four as described in my initial post. If I carry a dingey with motor my
kids would be satiated. Don't worry about tow weight too much, F-350 SD
Diesel can pull quite a bit. I don't want to break the bank on my first
boat. I have some experience but would like to cut my teeth for 2-3
years and then break the bank.

Carl

As you can see, the Mac discussions can get pretty wild. As pointed
out, most of those who are the most adamant (even bitter) in their
criticism of the Mac have never sailed one of the current models (the
26M), which includes a number of changes. Many have never even sailed
one of the older model Macs!! But if you simply prefer not to subject
yourself to ridicule and sarcasm (as seen on this ng) by going with a
Mac, it would certainly be understandable.

I suggest you check into all the boats mentioned. There are lots of
options and lots of used boats (including Macs) for sale. Keep in mind
that many of the heavier, larger boats are going to be more difficult to
launch and pull out on a trailer because they require substantially more
water depth to float off the trailer. I chose a trailerable boat
because it eliminates the upkeep, slip fees, and maintenance entailed in
keeping the boat in the water. Ours is kept in a lot "mast up" and towed
about 100 yards to the launch area. Some of the smaller ones don't have
the interior room you were looking for. And although you may not think
you need or want it, the large (50 - 70 hp) motor most M26s have can be
quite handy when you want to motor out to a desired sailing area without
spending the whole day getting there, or when you want to get back to
the marina before heavy weather hits, or when you want to et back to the
marina after a hot day's sail, coming back against the wind. And, of
course, cost is a factor.

If you weren't limited to trailerable boats, your choices on the used
market would be much wider. - But your plan to buy a smaller, cheaper
boat and keep it for three years or so before moving to a larger one
makes sense.

Jim

DSK wrote:

I told you, those darn cultists are pernicious!

Yeah, I didn't want people to think I lobbed a grenade and ran as my
first post to the group.

Get a hell-for-leather sport boat then your kids would probably have fun

That's what they want...all that matters is to go fast and beat the 21ft
Chris-Craft. Oh, and water ski and tube, etc. I was just looking at
sailboats and my sons were changing "motor boat, motor boat" in the
background.

OK
Another question I have is, what are your tastes? Traditional?

Ignoring my family's taste as described above, my taste is traditional.
My first preference would be a traditional sail boat in a slip
at Oceanside Harbor.

I like this boat below. I am 90% sure it is owned by the guy who sold
my friend his boat (he had 3). It's not what I'm looking for but I like it.
http://www.boats.com/listing/boat_de...p%26is%3Dfalse

Here's another that I like that is more in my price range.
http://www.boats.com/listing/boat_de...0%26is%3Dfalse

I'm not in any hurry. The key is to have the money on stand by and wait
for the right boat to come along.

I have been thinking about building a Bateau V10 with my boys while I
research and wait. The idea is that we can use this as a lake boat when
we go camping and they can learn from the building process. Then I
change my mind and think that I should just buy a small sail or motor
boat and enjoy it while waiting. Analysis paralysis sets in and I take
a valium and go to bed.


Hope all the BS that popped up in this thread didn't totally turn you
against sailing, or this ASA newsgroup.

No, it hasn't turned me off but I have held my tongue! You definitely
need to watch what you say around here. I haven't taken the Mac off of
my list yet. (oh god, I said it.)

"JimC" wrote in message
m...
.

It operates on the same principle (ballast carried within
the the hull,
in the lower portion of the hull) as most ocean-going
vessels. And the
same principle used in tall ships for hundreds of years.


Tall ships had oversized outboards?

You have to be really drunk or really stupid to compare, in
any way, a Mac26 to a tall ship! Which is it, Jim?

SBV

"JimC" chanted the Mac mantra......

And although you may not think
you need or want it, the large (50 - 70 hp) motor most
M26s have can be
quite handy when you want to motor out to a desired
sailing area without
spending the whole day getting there,

but then again, if you have a decent sailing boat, you'
rather sail back.

Scotty

JimC wrote:
stability analysis of the 26M/X. It certainly has a high center of
gravity, and the metacentric height has to be pretty low.

It operates on the same principle (ballast carried within the the hull,
in the lower portion of the hull) as most ocean-going vessels.

Yes, and more than a few modern vessels have rolled over. Keeping
track of weight distribution is one of the primary jobs if the first
officer on most ships. Using phrases like "operates on the same
principle" is like saying it "obeys the laws of physics." It was wise
of you to avoid those boats that don't obey the laws of physics.

When you look at the long list of warnings, such as:

NO MORE THAN 6 PERSONS, 960 POUNDS.

WHEN POWERING OVER 6 MILES PER HOUR:
- NO ONE ON THE CABIN TOP OR FOREDECK.

and

NEVER POWER THE BOAT OVER 6 MILES PER HOUR WITH THE SAILS UP.
The result could be instant capsize.

its clear that there are issues here. And I should add, the my real
point here is that these issues simply do not exist on "normal" boats.

And of course, we don't want to even consider the issues if the
ballast tank is empty.

In the past you've poo-poo'd these warnings as just "lawyer talk," but
I hope now that you've had the boat for a while you take them more
seriously.

And the
same principle used in tall ships for hundreds of years.

I really don't think you want to use the stability qualities of
traditional ships as an example. And remember, even they used ballast
with a specific gravity somewhat greater than one.



And the other issue is that the water ballast extends all the way from
stem to stern. This can't be helping the pitching moment at all.

Wrong again. it extends about 2/3rds, and the front and rear portions of
the tank taper to sharp end portions and are therefore of little mass
and no real consequence re the distribution of mass.

Not according to the published diagram:
http://www.macgregor26.com/drawings/drawings.htm

Its pretty clear from this that the ballast extends all the way
forward, and that in fact a substantial amount is forward of the mast.
You should really spend some time learning about your boat, Jim.

Get a hell-for-leather sport boat then your kids would probably have fun


CJH wrote:
That's what they want...all that matters is to go fast and beat the 21ft
Chris-Craft. Oh, and water ski and tube, etc. I was just looking at
sailboats and my sons were changing "motor boat, motor boat" in the
background.


http://www.rocketboats.com/home.html

You could name it "Motor Boat."
Actually one of these would be pretty cramped for a family,
but it would make a great camper-cruiser. And it's total
blast, under the right conditions (windy) would beat that
Chris-Craft!


I like this boat below. I am 90% sure it is owned by the guy who sold
my friend his boat (he had 3). It's not what I'm looking for but I like
it.
http://www.boats.com/listing/boat_de...p%26is%3Dfalse


Those are nice, used to be one just down the dock from us...
a couple that had circumnavigated in it. Not a boat for
speed thrills though



Here's another that I like that is more in my price range.
http://www.boats.com/listing/boat_de...0%26is%3Dfalse


Kinda like Pizza Hut though, I mean you see them everywhere.
And not trailerable, although there are a few boats of
similar form that are trailerable. That S-2 7.9 is a bit
smaller but should still be roomy enough for a family of 4
and has better performance than the Catalina 27 (much
better, but it's not a motor boat substitute).




I'm not in any hurry. The key is to have the money on stand by and wait
for the right boat to come along.


Or get something that's relatively inexpensive to start
having fun now... not to be in a hurry but to get some miles
of water under you & your kids!

One of the best things about a small to medium sized
sailboat, from a kids standpoint, is that he (or she) can
command it. It's much much safer than a car (once they learn
the basics), they can be totally independent, they can bring
friends along.



I have been thinking about building a Bateau V10 with my boys while I
research and wait. The idea is that we can use this as a lake boat when
we go camping and they can learn from the building process.

That sounds like fun too. Good basis for practical skills
that will come in handy later on.


Then I
change my mind and think that I should just buy a small sail or motor
boat and enjoy it while waiting. Analysis paralysis sets in and I take
a valium and go to bed.


Old engineering maxim: "If you have enough information, the
decision makes itself."

I'm facing a somewhat similar problem myself, wanting to get
a boat for fun sailing & maybe some racing, but keep
thinking about a traditional boat for sailing with my
father... maybe a small gaff cutter... but then I also have
a lot of major & hectic disturbances in my life this year,
so can't really make any headway on it.



I haven't taken the Mac off of
my list yet. (oh god, I said it.)

S'OK... just don't convince yourself it's the *ONLY* option,
or that you want it for reasons that turn out to be false
(like how it's blazing fast). If it works for you, then that
would be great.

BTW if this helps, I've pulled tubes & boogie boards with
medium size racing sailboats. It's more fun than you'd
think. In fact I once sailed 9 miles pulling a college buddy
on a surfboard, flying a spinnaker, in a Lightning... brief
film on TV with that one.

DSK

Scotty wrote:
"JimC" wrote in message
m...

.

It operates on the same principle (ballast carried within

the the hull,

in the lower portion of the hull) as most ocean-going

vessels. And the

same principle used in tall ships for hundreds of years.



Tall ships had oversized outboards?

You have to be really drunk or really stupid to compare, in
any way, a Mac26 to a tall ship! Which is it, Jim?

SBV


Both the Mac 26M and most tall ships had internal ballast positioned in
lower portions of the hull. The fact that the Mac also has an outboard
is, of course, not relevant.

Incidentally, I crewed on a tall ship (the 1877 Elissa, docked in
Galveston) and gave tours explaining its operation and history.

Jim

I think this is a valid point... for me, the whole point of sailing is the
journey, not the destination so much. On the other hand, there are places
where the getting there part is not worth much, as the destination is the
place to sail. Right now, where I keep my boat requires about 30 minutes of
motoring or more than an hour of sailing to get to the deep bay, which is
where things are happening. We use the motoring time (if that's what we
decide to do) to get the boat ready for 20kts wind, crew preparation,
planning and discussion about the lesson, etc., so it's not wasted.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"JimC" chanted the Mac mantra......

And although you may not think
you need or want it, the large (50 - 70 hp) motor most
M26s have can be
quite handy when you want to motor out to a desired
sailing area without
spending the whole day getting there,

but then again, if you have a decent sailing boat, you'
rather sail back.

Scotty

I guess I'm spoiled. 2 minute motor out of the marina, and
I'm sailing!

Scotty


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
I think this is a valid point... for me, the whole point
of sailing is the
journey, not the destination so much. On the other hand,
there are places
where the getting there part is not worth much, as the
destination is the
place to sail. Right now, where I keep my boat requires
about 30 minutes of
motoring or more than an hour of sailing to get to the
deep bay, which is
where things are happening. We use the motoring time (if
that's what we
decide to do) to get the boat ready for 20kts wind, crew
preparation,
planning and discussion about the lesson, etc., so it's
not wasted.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"JimC" chanted the Mac mantra......

And although you may not think
you need or want it, the large (50 - 70 hp) motor most
M26s have can be
quite handy when you want to motor out to a desired
sailing area without
spending the whole day getting there,

but then again, if you have a decent sailing boat, you'
rather sail back.

Scotty