All, Am looking to move up to a bigger boat. Have been sailing a US27
in the Potomac for 8+ years and want a bigger boat. My first boat was a
Catalina 22 and the current favorite is the Catalina 320. I have two
main questions, one on price and the other on hull condition.

In looking at the boats and their sale prices there is quite a bit of
difference between the NADA and BUCS valuation and the asking price.
When I asked a dealer about this his explanation was that they (the
dealers) have a new system as the NADA and BUCS were out of touch and
that they were designed to get people to put more money down as that
would be the maximum they would lend. I find that to be a bit bogus and
just a little self serving for the dealers. Both systems and the prices
track with the same trend. I am inclined to believe the NADA and BUCS
valuations are fair and would be the standard I would look to when I go
to sell this boat to determine the asking price. Am I off base on this?

My second question is that the dealer then went into a long discussion
about me wanting a boat that was in salt water as the salt molecules
would have made the water molecules larger and it would be less likely
to have blistering on the hull. Is hull blistering still a big problem?
Our US27 was made in 1981 when they were still trying to figure out
what was causing blistering, and we have never had a single blister and
our boat has been in fresh and salt water. I know Catalina offers a
5-year blister warranty on their hulls and has a layer of some type of
plastic embedded just under the gel coat. Is this important or just a
feature? My understanding as to the cause of blistering in fiberglass
hulls was that once a builder started making a hull it was important to
keep laying the layers down one after the other until the hull was
completely laid out. Also part of this was to ensure that the previous
layer was still a bit tacky so that the subsequent layer would fuse/mix
with the previous layer for a tighter more impervious bond. When I
mentioned this to the dealer, he did acknowledge this, but I was not
sure if he raised this concern as the boat he was selling had been in
salt water or if he had seen a lot of instances of blistering.

Thanks Ray

"Ray" wrote in message
oups.com...
All, Am looking to move up to a bigger boat. Have been sailing a US27
in the Potomac for 8+ years and want a bigger boat. My first boat was a
Catalina 22 and the current favorite is the Catalina 320. I have two
main questions, one on price and the other on hull condition.

In looking at the boats and their sale prices there is quite a bit of
difference between the NADA and BUCS valuation and the asking price.
When I asked a dealer about this his explanation was that they (the
dealers) have a new system as the NADA and BUCS were out of touch and
that they were designed to get people to put more money down as that
would be the maximum they would lend. I find that to be a bit bogus and
just a little self serving for the dealers. Both systems and the prices
track with the same trend. I am inclined to believe the NADA and BUCS
valuations are fair and would be the standard I would look to when I go
to sell this boat to determine the asking price. Am I off base on this?

Can you check on selling prices of these boats independently of NADA and
BUCS?



My second question is that the dealer then went into a long discussion
about me wanting a boat that was in salt water as the salt molecules
would have made the water molecules larger and it would be less likely
to have blistering on the hull.

Salt molecules don't make water molecules larger, it just makes them taste
better.



Salt lowers the boiling point of water.

In general, small molecules boil at lower temperatures.

If your boat is lighter than water, you must burn it.



Water molecule are polar and stick to each other. The presence of other ions
would not affect the molecule size unless it formed a new molecule. If you
run electricity through the solution you would get smaller molecules.




Is hull blistering still a big problem?

If the gel coat is violated and water is forced in.



Our US27 was made in 1981 when they were still trying to figure out
what was causing blistering, and we have never had a single blister and
our boat has been in fresh and salt water. I know Catalina offers a
5-year blister warranty on their hulls and has a layer of some type of
plastic embedded just under the gel coat. Is this important or just a
feature? My understanding as to the cause of blistering in fiberglass
hulls was that once a builder started making a hull it was important to
keep laying the layers down one after the other until the hull was
completely laid out. Also part of this was to ensure that the previous
layer was still a bit tacky so that the subsequent layer would fuse/mix
with the previous layer for a tighter more impervious bond. When I
mentioned this to the dealer, he did acknowledge this, but I was not
sure if he raised this concern as the boat he was selling had been in
salt water or if he had seen a lot of instances of blistering.

You can buy a steel or aluminum boat too. The fiberglass hull ideally should
be vacuum bagged. If not, then laid up with rollers to squeeze the air out.

Why not go for a 26 foot trailerable and blisters will never be a problem?
Catalina makes a water ballast boat and McGregor makes the world's most
popular sailboat of all time, the Mac 26x.

You can just buy a cheap used boat and when you are done with it, throw it
away.


Thanks Ray

"Gilligan" wrote in message
. ..

"Ray" wrote in message
oups.com...
All, Am looking to move up to a bigger boat. Have been sailing a US27
in the Potomac for 8+ years and want a bigger boat. My first boat was a
Catalina 22 and the current favorite is the Catalina 320. I have two
main questions, one on price and the other on hull condition.

In looking at the boats and their sale prices there is quite a bit of
difference between the NADA and BUCS valuation and the asking price.
When I asked a dealer about this his explanation was that they (the
dealers) have a new system as the NADA and BUCS were out of touch and
that they were designed to get people to put more money down as that
would be the maximum they would lend. I find that to be a bit bogus and
just a little self serving for the dealers. Both systems and the prices
track with the same trend. I am inclined to believe the NADA and BUCS
valuations are fair and would be the standard I would look to when I go
to sell this boat to determine the asking price. Am I off base on this?

Can you check on selling prices of these boats independently of NADA and
BUCS?



My second question is that the dealer then went into a long discussion
about me wanting a boat that was in salt water as the salt molecules
would have made the water molecules larger and it would be less likely
to have blistering on the hull.

Salt molecules don't make water molecules larger, it just makes them taste
better.



Salt lowers the boiling point of water.

In general, small molecules boil at lower temperatures.

If your boat is lighter than water, you must burn it.



Water molecule are polar and stick to each other. The presence of other
ions would not affect the molecule size unless it formed a new molecule.
If you run electricity through the solution you would get smaller
molecules.




Is hull blistering still a big problem?

If the gel coat is violated and water is forced in.



Our US27 was made in 1981 when they were still trying to figure out
what was causing blistering, and we have never had a single blister and
our boat has been in fresh and salt water. I know Catalina offers a
5-year blister warranty on their hulls and has a layer of some type of
plastic embedded just under the gel coat. Is this important or just a
feature? My understanding as to the cause of blistering in fiberglass
hulls was that once a builder started making a hull it was important to
keep laying the layers down one after the other until the hull was
completely laid out. Also part of this was to ensure that the previous
layer was still a bit tacky so that the subsequent layer would fuse/mix
with the previous layer for a tighter more impervious bond. When I
mentioned this to the dealer, he did acknowledge this, but I was not
sure if he raised this concern as the boat he was selling had been in
salt water or if he had seen a lot of instances of blistering.

You can buy a steel or aluminum boat too. The fiberglass hull ideally
should be vacuum bagged. If not, then laid up with rollers to squeeze the
air out.

Why not go for a 26 foot trailerable and blisters will never be a problem?
Catalina makes a water ballast boat and McGregor makes the world's most
popular sailboat of all time, the Mac 26x.

You can just buy a cheap used boat and when you are done with it, throw it
away.


Thanks Ray




My head hurts.

--
jlrogers±³©

Asking prices are generally way inflated. You should assume at least
15%, and sometimes 30% or more. With a major brand like a Catalina,
you can at least find out actually selling prices for comparables.

That thing about "fresh water blisters" is one theory that actually
does have some credibility, but is far from proven. The anecdotal
evidence seems to be that the opposite is true, but that may be
because most fresh water boats are in the Great Lakes, in cold water
and hauled half the year, while sal****er boats often stay in warm
water year round.

Aside from the blister issue itself, there are dozens of ways that a
salt water boat can have more problems than a fresh water boat. Of
course, the reverse is also true - one thing to consider is that an
older fresh water boat may use raw water cooling on the engine where a
heat exchanger system may be preferable in salt water.

There are other big issues - has the boat been raced or chartered, has
it been left in the water all winter, did it live in the tropics, has
it had a hard grounding or collision repair?

And do not even think of buying a boat without a full survey. In
fact, you should find the surveyor before you look for a boat. If the
broker says he has a surveyor you can use, say, "no thanks." If he
says it doesn't need a survey, or you can't haul the boat, or do any
slightly invasive tests, find a different boat and broker. Ideally a
surveyor would be familiar with the type of boat you're considering,
and can give you a few guidelines on what to look for.



Ray wrote:
All, Am looking to move up to a bigger boat. Have been sailing a US27
in the Potomac for 8+ years and want a bigger boat. My first boat was a
Catalina 22 and the current favorite is the Catalina 320. I have two
main questions, one on price and the other on hull condition.

In looking at the boats and their sale prices there is quite a bit of
difference between the NADA and BUCS valuation and the asking price.
When I asked a dealer about this his explanation was that they (the
dealers) have a new system as the NADA and BUCS were out of touch and
that they were designed to get people to put more money down as that
would be the maximum they would lend. I find that to be a bit bogus and
just a little self serving for the dealers. Both systems and the prices
track with the same trend. I am inclined to believe the NADA and BUCS
valuations are fair and would be the standard I would look to when I go
to sell this boat to determine the asking price. Am I off base on this?

My second question is that the dealer then went into a long discussion
about me wanting a boat that was in salt water as the salt molecules
would have made the water molecules larger and it would be less likely
to have blistering on the hull. Is hull blistering still a big problem?
Our US27 was made in 1981 when they were still trying to figure out
what was causing blistering, and we have never had a single blister and
our boat has been in fresh and salt water. I know Catalina offers a
5-year blister warranty on their hulls and has a layer of some type of
plastic embedded just under the gel coat. Is this important or just a
feature? My understanding as to the cause of blistering in fiberglass
hulls was that once a builder started making a hull it was important to
keep laying the layers down one after the other until the hull was
completely laid out. Also part of this was to ensure that the previous
layer was still a bit tacky so that the subsequent layer would fuse/mix
with the previous layer for a tighter more impervious bond. When I
mentioned this to the dealer, he did acknowledge this, but I was not
sure if he raised this concern as the boat he was selling had been in
salt water or if he had seen a lot of instances of blistering.

Thanks Ray

"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
. net...

My head hurts.


Take two aspirin and come back tomorrow.