On Feb 23, 6:55 pm, Jeff wrote:
* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 2/23/2007 6:04 PM:







However, ignore the amateurs that advise shackling the chain to the
boat.
It should be attached with a length of line, strong enough to hold the
boat, accessible enough to cut with a knife if need be.

What about boats that have all chain rodes? Are you proposing adding
line to
the end of an all chain rode?

Absolutely, and for the reason Jeff mentioned.

CWM

You forgot the word "retarded". Jeff's reason is retarded. There is no
reason to have a rope tail to cut. If you have chain rode you have a
windlass. If you have a windlass you have a chain stopper. Either a
stopper built into the windlass or a stopper forward of it on deck. Or
preferably both. If you have the bitter end of the chain made fast below
in the chain locker with a stainless steel shackle made fast to a padeye
or eye bolt it is under no strain. If you should have to jettison the
rode/anchor for emergency reasons it is far better to do so from the
safety of the ships interior. Generally, should you have to part company
with your ground tackle it will be under severe wind and wave
conditions. It is generally not as safe on the bucking foredeck as it is
inside the vessel. You could even severely cut yourself with the knife.
You could even use a snap shackle in the chain locker if you thought a
stainless steel screw shackle might be tough to unfasten. Be sure to
buoy your rode before setting it free so you may retrieve it at a later
time. The buoy should have the name of your ship on it.

Its clear you learned all you know by reading old West Marine catalogs
you found while dumpster diving.

His condo has 8 dumpsters



First, the is no guarantee you have a windlass, and a windlass does
not imply a chain stopper. And the chain stopper will not
automatically stop the chain from running out.

IMO if you have more than 15 ft of chain you need a windlass. You are
correct a stopper will not stop a moving chain. I like 3 braid nylon
stoppers. and I hate steel door type stoppers. Stoppers are only
applied after the rode is stopped.

And when the boat
snubs up on shackle it will probably deform it just enough to make it
impossible to unscrew by hand.

Get a set up like this Jeff, you can find them surplus:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...13/fig3-66.gif.

You can set lengths and insure you will never have a bent pin on the
eye.


Further, this nonsense about having to cut the line while hanging off
the bow proves that you've never actually been on a boat.

Small cheap yellow banana boats have ice cooler size lockers without
access below decks.

Obviously,
the line would attach to the same spot you're saying to use with a
shackle, so one could cut it from the same "safe location" that you
could remove the shackle.

See above

The difference, of course, is that with rope
you can cut where ever is convenient, with 100% certainly, and with
a shackle there's a fair chance you'll need time and tools to get it
undone.

If I have a knife... I have a spike. Your slipping Jeff, what kind of
sailor does not have a razor sharp marlin spike knife combo?

I do not like the ideal of tying off a chain with rope to the padeye.
Then again, I have the strength of steel:0)

Joe



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Joe" wrote in message


If I have a knife... I have a spike. Your slipping Jeff,
what kind of
sailor does not have a razor sharp marlin spike knife
combo?


I keep an old butter knife in my anchor locker and I've
never tied the bitter end off.

Scotty

On Feb 24, 2:24 pm, "Scotty" w@u wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

If I have a knife... I have a spike. You're slipping Jeff,
what kind of sailor does not have a razor sharp marlin spike knife

combo?

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-Vintage-Mar...QQcmdZViewItem

I keep an old butter knife in my anchor locker and I've
never tied the bitter end off.

Scotty

* Joe wrote, On 2/24/2007 1:34 PM:

....
Its clear you learned all you know by reading old West Marine catalogs
you found while dumpster diving.

His condo has 8 dumpsters

His condo IS 8 dumpsters.


First, the is no guarantee you have a windlass, and a windlass does
not imply a chain stopper. And the chain stopper will not
automatically stop the chain from running out.

IMO if you have more than 15 ft of chain you need a windlass.

I'm sorry to hear of your infirmity, Joe. Most people are able to
handle 20 to 30 feet of chain by hand. Admittedly I like having a
windlass on my primary anchor, but the secondary has 20 feet of chain
and I have no problem at all recovering that by hand.


....


The difference, of course, is that with rope
you can cut where ever is convenient, with 100% certainly, and with
a shackle there's a fair chance you'll need time and tools to get it
undone.

If I have a knife... I have a spike. Your slipping Jeff, what kind of
sailor does not have a razor sharp marlin spike knife combo?

Any knife can cut a line under tension. With the setup I describe
there would be some flexibility on where you were able to cut.
However, once a chain is under tension there is only one option on
where you have to undo the shackle; on my boat that would require
lying on deck and hanging over into the locker to reach the shackle.
And odds are, it would twisted around and impossible to reach.

Sorry Joe, you can argue that on some boats this is not a big issue,
but on many it is.



I do not like the ideal of tying off a chain with rope to the padeye.
Then again, I have the strength of steel:0)

Right Joe, you confessed that 15 feet of chain is so heavy that you
need a windlass!

On Feb 24, 2:55 pm, Jeff wrote:
* Joe wrote, On 2/24/2007 1:34 PM:

...

Its clear you learned all you know by reading old West Marine catalogs
you found while dumpster diving.

His condo has 8 dumpsters

His condo IS 8 dumpsters.



First, the is no guarantee you have a windlass, and a windlass does
not imply a chain stopper. And the chain stopper will not
automatically stop the chain from running out.

IMO if you have more than 15 ft of chain you need a windlass.

I'm sorry to hear of your infirmity, Joe. Most people are able to
handle 20 to 30 feet of chain by hand.

can you pull it up if it's buried under a 600 lb rock? Break a plow
that 3 ft under?

Admittedly I like having a
windlass on my primary anchor, but the secondary has 20 feet of chain
and I have no problem at all recovering that by hand.

...

The difference, of course, is that with rope
you can cut where ever is convenient, with 100% certainly, and with
a shackle there's a fair chance you'll need time and tools to get it
undone.

If I have a knife... I have a spike. Your slipping Jeff, what kind of
sailor does not have a razor sharp marlin spike knife combo?

Any knife can cut a line under tension. With the setup I describe
there would be some flexibility on where you were able to cut.
However, once a chain is under tension there is only one option on
where you have to undo the shackle; on my boat that would require
lying on deck and hanging over into the locker to reach the shackle.
And odds are, it would twisted around and impossible to reach.

Sorry Joe, you can argue that on some boats this is not a big issue,
but on many it is.



I do not like the ideal of tying off a chain with rope to the padeye.
Then again, I have the strength of steel:0)

Right Joe, you confessed that 15 feet of chain is so heavy that you
need a windlass!

Not for the weight of the chain Jeff.

BTW I have a windlass and a cat head. A Navy #1 built in 1901. Cast
iron hot galvanized dipped. It will pull the bow under if needed.

Joe

* Joe wrote, On 2/24/2007 7:10 PM:
On Feb 24, 2:55 pm, Jeff wrote:
....
IMO if you have more than 15 ft of chain you need a windlass.
I'm sorry to hear of your infirmity, Joe. Most people are able to
handle 20 to 30 feet of chain by hand.

can you pull it up if it's buried under a 600 lb rock? Break a plow
that 3 ft under?


What does this have to do with chain? Are you claiming that with 15
feet of chain its easy but with 20 feet its impossible?

In any case, I don't rely on the windlass to break out of normal
situations, like deep mud. I shorten up as much as possible, and then
let the boat bob around for a few minutes. It alway works for me.
If it were fouled on a 600 pound rock I'd probably burn out my
windlass trying to haul it.

....

I do not like the ideal of tying off a chain with rope to the padeye.
Then again, I have the strength of steel:0)
Right Joe, you confessed that 15 feet of chain is so heavy that you
need a windlass!

Not for the weight of the chain Jeff.

Feel free to back pedal all you want.


BTW I have a windlass and a cat head. A Navy #1 built in 1901. Cast
iron hot galvanized dipped. It will pull the bow under if needed.

Good for you. It probably weighs more than my windlass and all my
ground tackle put together. Its probably appropriate for your type of
boat.

On Feb 24, 7:14 pm, Jeff wrote:
* Joe wrote, On 2/24/2007 7:10 PM:

On Feb 24, 2:55 pm, Jeff wrote:
...
IMO if you have more than 15 ft of chain you need a windlass.
I'm sorry to hear of your infirmity, Joe. Most people are able to
handle 20 to 30 feet of chain by hand.

can you pull it up if it's buried under a 600 lb rock? Break a plow
that 3 ft under?

What does this have to do with chain? Are you claiming that with 15
feet of chain its easy but with 20 feet its impossible?

In any case, I don't rely on the windlass to break out of normal
situations, like deep mud. I shorten up as much as possible, and then
let the boat bob around for a few minutes. It alway works for me.
If it were fouled on a 600 pound rock I'd probably burn out my
windlass trying to haul it.

...

I do not like the ideal of tying off a chain with rope to the padeye.
Then again, I have the strength of steel:0)
Right Joe, you confessed that 15 feet of chain is so heavy that you
need a windlass!

Not for the weight of the chain Jeff.

Feel free to back pedal all you want.

Back Pedal? It's that last 15-20 ft of chain thats a bitch around
here, the rest is easy, you wanna bust your back go ahead, IIl just
rachet in



BTW I have a windlass and a cat head. A Navy #1 built in 1901. Cast
iron hot galvanized dipped. It will pull the bow under if needed.

Good for you. It probably weighs more than my windlass

only about 180 pounds

and all my
ground tackle put together.


Its probably appropriate for your type of
boat.

Yeah thats why I bought it. 1/2" doubler plate on deck and Monel
strike plate on the hull next to the hawse pipe to keep the flukes
from scratching the steel. Underneath in the locker is a 1" bow stem
plate with a shackle for the bitter end.

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com..
..

BTW I have a windlass and a cat head. A Navy #1 built in
1901. Cast
iron hot galvanized dipped. It will pull the bow under if
needed.


Why would you want to do that?

SV

On Feb 23, 10:34 am, Jeff wrote:

What is the best way to tie off the anchor chain in the chain locker?

ignore the amateurs that advise shackling the chain to the
boat. It should be attached with a length of line, strong enough to
hold the boat, accessible enough to cut with a knife if need be.


The trough bolted padeye with backing plate is correct.
A 10' tail is correct.
Seveal passes of small stuff (line) between the padeye and link of
chain is correct.
That way ya can cut it loose and let it fly when your bow is about to
be taken to the deep or put a purchas on that 10' tail if need to
monkey with it whilts under a strain.

* Joe wrote, On 2/24/2007 10:05 PM:
....
I do not like the ideal of tying off a chain with rope to the padeye.
Then again, I have the strength of steel:0)
Right Joe, you confessed that 15 feet of chain is so heavy that you
need a windlass!
Not for the weight of the chain Jeff.
Feel free to back pedal all you want.

Back Pedal? It's that last 15-20 ft of chain thats a bitch around
here, the rest is easy, you wanna bust your back go ahead, IIl just
rachet in

As I've said, I have a windlass on my primary. However, 15 feet of my
chain is only 15 pounds, so if that's too heavy for you, you have my
condolences. Of course, much depends on the size of the anchor
attached to that chain.

I'll stand by my point. There are lots of boats the should have 20
feet of chain but don't need a windlass.




BTW I have a windlass and a cat head. A Navy #1 built in 1901. Cast
iron hot galvanized dipped. It will pull the bow under if needed.
Good for you. It probably weighs more than my windlass

only about 180 pounds

and all my
ground tackle put together.

Let's see: I have 50 feet of chain, a 35# Delta, 250 feet of line,
Lewmar windlass. That comes out to about 140 pounds. On the other
bow the Delta with rode is about 35 pounds. So your windlass is a bit
more than all my gear. But then, I have a lightweight catamaran and
you have a heavy steel boat.