Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of
cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire
hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of
fiberglass/polyester skin.

I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for
economic reason.

My news wrote:
Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of
cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire
hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of
fiberglass/polyester skin.

I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines
for economic reason.






Advice? Yeah - don't.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:55:34 -0800, "My news" wrote:

Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of
cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire
hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of
fiberglass/polyester skin.

I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for
economic reason.

Polyester does not bond very well to epoxy. Most authorities advise
not to use this method.

The "old" system was to use thin polyester resin to impregnate the
wood. Then use polyester resin to "glue" it together. Many boats were
built this way in the early days of "fiberglass" construction.

I think I'd question your idea. Why not just use waterproof plywood to
build boats? It has been done successfully for years now and I would
guess that the Filipinos are well aware of how to build boats.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Jan 4, 6:55*pm, "My news" wrote:
Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of
cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire
hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of
fiberglass/polyester skin.

I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for
economic reason.

The epoxy will be softened by the polyester and MEK. It will be a big
mess.

Todd wrote:
On Jan 4, 6:55 pm, "My news" wrote:
Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of
cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire
hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of
fiberglass/polyester skin.

I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for
economic reason.

The epoxy will be softened by the polyester and MEK. It will be a big
mess.

The *only* way I have ever heard of to get a satisfactory bond with
standard polyester resin over normal epoxies is wait several months for
the epoxy to totally cure, abrade the **** out of it and apply a barrier
and bonding coat of G4 Pond Sealer then lay up the polyester laminate
while the G4 is still tacky. Ideally the area of epoxy to be overcoated
should be kept to a minimum as G4 works very well on wood and other
porous substrates.

Its doubtful whether full sheathing on a working boat will, in the long
term, be maintained well enough to prevent water penetration and
accelerated rot.

If the intention is to prevent worm damage, it may be a reasonable
solution, but the initial expense is likely to be high enough that only
rich fishermen can afford it, even though they will save money over the
life of the vessel. I don't think encouraging the use of large
quantities of expensive resins is going to do much for a sustainable
fishing industry in poor communities. Expensive boats with large loans
outstanding on them *will* lead to overfishing as the boat owners do
what it takes to reduce their debt. I fear that this may well seriously
worsen the circumstances of poor fishermen.

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:

"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:55:34 -0800, "My news" wrote:

Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of
cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire
hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of
fiberglass/polyester skin.

I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for
economic reason.

Polyester does not bond very well to epoxy. Most authorities advise
not to use this method.

The "old" system was to use thin polyester resin to impregnate the
wood. Then use polyester resin to "glue" it together. Many boats were
built this way in the early days of "fiberglass" construction.

I think I'd question your idea. Why not just use waterproof plywood to
build boats? It has been done successfully for years now and I would
guess that the Filipinos are well aware of how to build boats.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

They are still using the old practice of cutting trees to make a dug out
canoe for the bottom hull with extented sides made of plywood. The dug out
canoes are being sold to the local fishermen by those illegal tree cutters.
I like to introduce the stick and glue to eliminate the dug out canoe which
will be cheaper for them and will save the trees. This is the native Banca
using outriggers on both sides.

http://www.pixelmap.ca/canoesailing/

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 00:55:17 -0800, "mscres" wrote:


"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:55:34 -0800, "My news" wrote:

Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of
cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire
hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of
fiberglass/polyester skin.

I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for
economic reason.

Polyester does not bond very well to epoxy. Most authorities advise
not to use this method.

The "old" system was to use thin polyester resin to impregnate the
wood. Then use polyester resin to "glue" it together. Many boats were
built this way in the early days of "fiberglass" construction.

I think I'd question your idea. Why not just use waterproof plywood to
build boats? It has been done successfully for years now and I would
guess that the Filipinos are well aware of how to build boats.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

They are still using the old practice of cutting trees to make a dug out
canoe for the bottom hull with extented sides made of plywood. The dug out
canoes are being sold to the local fishermen by those illegal tree cutters.
I like to introduce the stick and glue to eliminate the dug out canoe which
will be cheaper for them and will save the trees. This is the native Banca
using outriggers on both sides.

http://www.pixelmap.ca/canoesailing/


Will it really be cheaper? I ask as in Thailand a bunch of guys came
over to show the natives how to build boats and the fishermen didn't
buy it. The local built boats were cheaper and longer lasting.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Jan 6, 12:55*am, "mscres" wrote:
"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in messagenews:ein3m4deg93uqh1fcmn2il8fp7ko4s3ut6@4ax .com...





On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:55:34 -0800, "My news" wrote:

Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of
cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire
hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of
fiberglass/polyester skin.

I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines for
economic reason.

Polyester does not bond very well to epoxy. Most authorities advise
not to use this method.

The "old" system was to use thin polyester resin to impregnate the
wood. Then use polyester resin to "glue" it together. Many boats were
built this way in the early days of "fiberglass" construction.

I think I'd question your idea. Why not just use waterproof plywood to
build boats? It has been done successfully for years now and I would
guess that the Filipinos are well aware of how to build boats.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

They are still using the old practice of cutting trees to make a dug out
canoe for the bottom hull with extented sides made of plywood. The dug out
canoes are being sold to the local fishermen by those illegal tree cutters.
I like to introduce the stick and glue to eliminate the dug out canoe which
will be cheaper for them and will save the trees. This is the native Banca
using outriggers on both sides.

http://www.pixelmap.ca/canoesailing/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

for their own good.......right.

It will be cheaper for them if they can eliminate the dugout canoe and will
save them time to build the boat. I asked some boat makers in the south of
manila that their waiting time for the dugout canoe is about four to five
months. The price is not cheap for a very crude work that they still have to
finish. It is the most expensive part of the boat and mostly came from
illegal cutting.
You can see from the link I provided earlier that the price of the boat can
go up to 3000 dollars which is not affordable for many native filipinos.


"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 00:55:17 -0800, "mscres" wrote:


"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:55:34 -0800, "My news" wrote:

Any advise or comment if I will use polyester and fiber glass on top of
cured and sanded epoxy on stich and glue? My plan is to prime the entire
hull with epoxy for a good bind before the application of
fiberglass/polyester skin.

I want to introduce this idea to the poor fishermen in the Philippines
for
economic reason.

Polyester does not bond very well to epoxy. Most authorities advise
not to use this method.

The "old" system was to use thin polyester resin to impregnate the
wood. Then use polyester resin to "glue" it together. Many boats were
built this way in the early days of "fiberglass" construction.

I think I'd question your idea. Why not just use waterproof plywood to
build boats? It has been done successfully for years now and I would
guess that the Filipinos are well aware of how to build boats.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

They are still using the old practice of cutting trees to make a dug out
canoe for the bottom hull with extented sides made of plywood. The dug out
canoes are being sold to the local fishermen by those illegal tree
cutters.
I like to introduce the stick and glue to eliminate the dug out canoe
which
will be cheaper for them and will save the trees. This is the native Banca
using outriggers on both sides.

http://www.pixelmap.ca/canoesailing/


Will it really be cheaper? I ask as in Thailand a bunch of guys came
over to show the natives how to build boats and the fishermen didn't
buy it. The local built boats were cheaper and longer lasting.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Jan 6, 11:02*am, "My news" wrote:
It will be cheaper for them if they can eliminate the dugout canoe and will
save them time to build the boat. I asked some boat makers in the south of
manila that their waiting time for the dugout canoe is about four to five
months. The price is not cheap for a very crude work that they still have to
finish. It is the most expensive part of the boat and mostly came from
illegal cutting.
You can see from the link I provided earlier that the price of the boat can
go up to 3000 dollars which is not affordable for many native filipinos.


I have on my desk at home a couple of articles from early issues of
the CoEvolution Quarterly about the work John Todd was doing in
Central America with similar aims. He had a boat designed that would
be the sea going "pick-up" for indigenous people. You may be able to
find some information on this project although I haven't seen much
online. (I may rectify that soon however.) As I remember there turned
out to be quite a strong reaction against his efforts from entrenched,
wealthy interests that did not want any sort of socio-economic
progress happening 'round those parts.