Hello :

I have a 2003 Larson Cabrio 254 Cabin Crusier w/73 hours on the 5.7 Volvo Penta
I/O.

Have recently discovered water in the engine oil. The dealer's mechanic is
telling me this is "Normal" and may occur if the boat ingests water while coming
down off-plane too rapidly or even if water is splashed too high while putting
the boat in the water at a launch ramp.

Seems this is TOO easy an "explanation" for what I think is a defective engine
gasket.
IF this IS something common, I'm amazed more people have not complained to the
manufacturer's about designing their boats better to avoid water ingestion.

I've also heard water ingestion is a common problem on Volvo 8-cylinder I/O
engines. There is apparently a problem with valve timing being off - this allows
the intake stroke to pull vacuum while an exhaust valve is still open, thus
sucking water into the cylinders. Has anyone here heard of this or have further
details ?

Thanks in advance !

Ralph

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:15:56 GMT, Ralph Modica
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I DAGS for

"water ingestion" volvo boat

and it was pretty scary.

Ho9wever, is your engine still under warranty? Needs pursuit if so.

Hello :

I have a 2003 Larson Cabrio 254 Cabin Crusier w/73 hours on the 5.7 Volvo Penta
I/O.

Have recently discovered water in the engine oil. The dealer's mechanic is
telling me this is "Normal" and may occur if the boat ingests water while coming
down off-plane too rapidly or even if water is splashed too high while putting
the boat in the water at a launch ramp.

Seems this is TOO easy an "explanation" for what I think is a defective engine
gasket.
IF this IS something common, I'm amazed more people have not complained to the
manufacturer's about designing their boats better to avoid water ingestion.

I've also heard water ingestion is a common problem on Volvo 8-cylinder I/O
engines. There is apparently a problem with valve timing being off - this allows
the intake stroke to pull vacuum while an exhaust valve is still open, thus
sucking water into the cylinders. Has anyone here heard of this or have further
details ?

Thanks in advance !

Ralph

************************************************** ***
Dogs are better than people.

People are better than dogs for only one purpose. And
then it's only half of ofthe people. And _then_ most
of them are only ordinary anyway. And then they have a
headache.........

Common in engines that weren't cared for. Bad in any case. If it's under
warranty, take it back and make them fix it before it completely destroys
itself.

--


Keith
__
I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory.
"Ralph Modica" wrote in message
...
Hello :

I have a 2003 Larson Cabrio 254 Cabin Crusier w/73 hours on the 5.7 Volvo
Penta
I/O.

Have recently discovered water in the engine oil. The dealer's mechanic is
telling me this is "Normal" and may occur if the boat ingests water while
coming
down off-plane too rapidly or even if water is splashed too high while
putting
the boat in the water at a launch ramp.

Seems this is TOO easy an "explanation" for what I think is a defective
engine
gasket.
IF this IS something common, I'm amazed more people have not complained to
the
manufacturer's about designing their boats better to avoid water
ingestion.

I've also heard water ingestion is a common problem on Volvo 8-cylinder
I/O
engines. There is apparently a problem with valve timing being off - this
allows
the intake stroke to pull vacuum while an exhaust valve is still open,
thus
sucking water into the cylinders. Has anyone here heard of this or have
further
details ?

Thanks in advance !

Ralph

Check the head gasket!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Old Nick" ha scritto nel messaggio
...
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:15:56 GMT, Ralph Modica
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I DAGS for

"water ingestion" volvo boat

and it was pretty scary.

Ho9wever, is your engine still under warranty? Needs pursuit if so.

Hello :

I have a 2003 Larson Cabrio 254 Cabin Crusier w/73 hours on the 5.7 Volvo
Penta
I/O.

Have recently discovered water in the engine oil. The dealer's mechanic
is
telling me this is "Normal" and may occur if the boat ingests water while
coming
down off-plane too rapidly or even if water is splashed too high while
putting
the boat in the water at a launch ramp.

Seems this is TOO easy an "explanation" for what I think is a defective
engine
gasket.
IF this IS something common, I'm amazed more people have not complained
to the
manufacturer's about designing their boats better to avoid water
ingestion.

I've also heard water ingestion is a common problem on Volvo 8-cylinder
I/O
engines. There is apparently a problem with valve timing being off - this
allows
the intake stroke to pull vacuum while an exhaust valve is still open,
thus
sucking water into the cylinders. Has anyone here heard of this or have
further
details ?

Thanks in advance !

Ralph

************************************************** ***
Dogs are better than people.

People are better than dogs for only one purpose. And
then it's only half of ofthe people. And _then_ most
of them are only ordinary anyway. And then they have a
headache.........

Your explanation makes sense: I have seen it often in inboards. Since
it is a new engine, there is little chance of a crack in the heat
exchanger(s) or head gasket.
I do not trust your mechanics explanation, it is NOT NORMAL, never, to
have water in the oil.

Jacques
www.bateau.com

Ralph Modica wrote in message ...
Hello :

I have a 2003 Larson Cabrio 254 Cabin Crusier w/73 hours on the 5.7 Volvo Penta
I/O.

Have recently discovered water in the engine oil. The dealer's mechanic is
telling me this is "Normal" and may occur if the boat ingests water while coming
down off-plane too rapidly or even if water is splashed too high while putting
the boat in the water at a launch ramp.

Seems this is TOO easy an "explanation" for what I think is a defective engine
gasket.
IF this IS something common, I'm amazed more people have not complained to the
manufacturer's about designing their boats better to avoid water ingestion.

I've also heard water ingestion is a common problem on Volvo 8-cylinder I/O
engines. There is apparently a problem with valve timing being off - this allows
the intake stroke to pull vacuum while an exhaust valve is still open, thus
sucking water into the cylinders. Has anyone here heard of this or have further
details ?

Thanks in advance !

Ralph

On 12 Nov 2004 07:51:15 -0800, (Jacques) vaguely proposed
a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I know it is not GOOD, but if you read the webvsites, this seems to
happen with these engines, because of valve timing in certain
circumstances.

I agree the engine needs a check, but it sound more like a class
action thing! Guys needing two new engines a season????

Your explanation makes sense: I have seen it often in inboards. Since
it is a new engine, there is little chance of a crack in the heat
exchanger(s) or head gasket.
I do not trust your mechanics explanation, it is NOT NORMAL, never, to
have water in the oil.

Jacques


************************************************** ***
Dogs are better than people.

People are better than dogs for only one purpose. And
then it's only half of ofthe people. And _then_ most
of them are only ordinary anyway. And then they have a
headache.........

Ralph,
This valve timing thing is a wives tale. All gasoline engines have some
valve overlap. The overlap uses gas inertia to breathe better and increase
the vollumetric efficiency. Typically, high performance engines use 106
degree valve centers and torque/ mid-speed work engines use between 108 and
114 degree centers. In all these cases, gas direction reversal only takes
place at very low speed and low throttle settings. (idle) The term for this
is reversion. This is what causes carborators to become black. It is exhaust
deposits. This can be a problem if there is excessive exhaust system back
pressure. However, in a marine environment, this would never cause water in
the oil, even if water vapor was being ingested at low speed, it would be
exhausted on the next cycle. It might make the idle a bit rough, but that is
all. My experience indicates a faulty exhaust manifold casting. Many of
these are porous or cracked and the water jacket, being higher than the
head, allows water to leak into the exhaust ports at shutdown and because
the engine is stopped, the water will slowly leak past the rings into the
pan. Another responder mentioned a head gasket leak and of course this is
possible, but on a relatively new engine, highly unlikely. To test for a
faulty manifold casting, it is necessary to use block off plates to the
water jacket and charge the water jacket with compressed air and watch for
leakdown.
Steve

"Ralph Modica" wrote in message
...
Hello :

I have a 2003 Larson Cabrio 254 Cabin Crusier w/73 hours on the 5.7 Volvo
Penta
I/O.

Have recently discovered water in the engine oil. The dealer's mechanic is
telling me this is "Normal" and may occur if the boat ingests water while
coming
down off-plane too rapidly or even if water is splashed too high while
putting
the boat in the water at a launch ramp.

Seems this is TOO easy an "explanation" for what I think is a defective
engine
gasket.
IF this IS something common, I'm amazed more people have not complained to
the
manufacturer's about designing their boats better to avoid water
ingestion.

I've also heard water ingestion is a common problem on Volvo 8-cylinder
I/O
engines. There is apparently a problem with valve timing being off - this
allows
the intake stroke to pull vacuum while an exhaust valve is still open,
thus
sucking water into the cylinders. Has anyone here heard of this or have
further
details ?

Thanks in advance !

Ralph

Ralph Modica wrote:
Hello :

I have a 2003 Larson Cabrio 254 Cabin Crusier w/73 hours on the 5.7 Volvo Penta
I/O.

Have recently discovered water in the engine oil. The dealer's mechanic is
telling me this is "Normal" and may occur if the boat ingests water while coming
down off-plane too rapidly or even if water is splashed too high while putting
the boat in the water at a launch ramp.

Seems this is TOO easy an "explanation" for what I think is a defective engine
gasket.
IF this IS something common, I'm amazed more people have not complained to the
manufacturer's about designing their boats better to avoid water ingestion.

I've also heard water ingestion is a common problem on Volvo 8-cylinder I/O
engines. There is apparently a problem with valve timing being off - this allows
the intake stroke to pull vacuum while an exhaust valve is still open, thus
sucking water into the cylinders. Has anyone here heard of this or have further
details ?

Thanks in advance !

Ralph

Not so uncommon and may be due to a malfunctioning of the exhaust/raw
water discharge circuit.
Sometimes it is just a vent that is plugged and permits a backflow of
water into the cylinders after shutting off the engine. The water, then,
seeps between the pistons and the cylinder walls into the sump.
Sometimes this problem, if not understood early, may cause the blow up
of the engine head at the next attempt to start the engine.

Anyway if you realize it right away you may prevent fatal consequences.
Flush the oil sump several times with new oil and brand new oil
filters letting the engine run between oil changes for few minutes.
Repeat until the oil becomes unmistakenly clear of water contamination;
usually 2-3 times (or more) right away and then once more after few
hours of functioning. Be very careful to watch the oil pressure gauge:
one of the problems is that water in the system makes the pressure
erratical and you should never let the engine run with no oil pressure
for more than few seconds.

It happened to my old Perkins 4.108 but, after the cure, the engine
continued its normal life (well... hopefully... it happened two summers
ago!).

Daniel

Has this engine been overheated? If so all bets are off it could be any
water gasket surface especially the head! Or a cracked block/cylinder wall.
It is probably a problem of this nature and the dealer/mechanic is afraid he
may have to repair the engine under warranty and he doesn't want to. Have it
looked at by an independent mechanic.

I have run too many boats with thru transom, over the transom exhausts as
well as every conceivable through the leg and silent choice type setup.
Water and oil should not mix, period! In older boats, 5+ years old, it is
common for the risers to leak. There usually is a rust line at the joint.
This will cause water to drip back into the exhaust manifold and eventually
will find it's way to the cylinder and the oil. It is normal maintenance to
pull the manifolds and risers at 5 years to check. Some say just replace
them there going to go soon anyway, even if they look ok now. Salt water of
course makes this all that much worse!.

John
Marine mechanic for too many years



"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Ralph,
This valve timing thing is a wives tale. All gasoline engines have some
valve overlap. The overlap uses gas inertia to breathe better and increase
the vollumetric efficiency. Typically, high performance engines use 106
degree valve centers and torque/ mid-speed work engines use between 108
and 114 degree centers. In all these cases, gas direction reversal only
takes place at very low speed and low throttle settings. (idle) The term
for this is reversion. This is what causes carborators to become black. It
is exhaust deposits. This can be a problem if there is excessive exhaust
system back pressure. However, in a marine environment, this would never
cause water in the oil, even if water vapor was being ingested at low
speed, it would be exhausted on the next cycle. It might make the idle a
bit rough, but that is all. My experience indicates a faulty exhaust
manifold casting. Many of these are porous or cracked and the water
jacket, being higher than the head, allows water to leak into the exhaust
ports at shutdown and because the engine is stopped, the water will slowly
leak past the rings into the pan. Another responder mentioned a head
gasket leak and of course this is possible, but on a relatively new
engine, highly unlikely. To test for a faulty manifold casting, it is
necessary to use block off plates to the water jacket and charge the water
jacket with compressed air and watch for leakdown.
Steve

"Ralph Modica" wrote in message
...
Hello :

I have a 2003 Larson Cabrio 254 Cabin Crusier w/73 hours on the 5.7 Volvo
Penta
I/O.

Have recently discovered water in the engine oil. The dealer's mechanic
is
telling me this is "Normal" and may occur if the boat ingests water while
coming
down off-plane too rapidly or even if water is splashed too high while
putting
the boat in the water at a launch ramp.

Seems this is TOO easy an "explanation" for what I think is a defective
engine
gasket.
IF this IS something common, I'm amazed more people have not complained
to the
manufacturer's about designing their boats better to avoid water
ingestion.

I've also heard water ingestion is a common problem on Volvo 8-cylinder
I/O
engines. There is apparently a problem with valve timing being off - this
allows
the intake stroke to pull vacuum while an exhaust valve is still open,
thus
sucking water into the cylinders. Has anyone here heard of this or have
further
details ?

Thanks in advance !

Ralph

It took me about a dozen oil changes to get rid of water in a merc 502.

--


Keith
__
Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and
years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the
worst movies in
the history of the world.
-- Dave Barry
"Daniel" wrote in message
...
Ralph Modica wrote:
Hello :

I have a 2003 Larson Cabrio 254 Cabin Crusier w/73 hours on the 5.7 Volvo
Penta
I/O.

Have recently discovered water in the engine oil. The dealer's mechanic
is
telling me this is "Normal" and may occur if the boat ingests water while
coming
down off-plane too rapidly or even if water is splashed too high while
putting
the boat in the water at a launch ramp.

Seems this is TOO easy an "explanation" for what I think is a defective
engine
gasket.
IF this IS something common, I'm amazed more people have not complained
to the
manufacturer's about designing their boats better to avoid water
ingestion.

I've also heard water ingestion is a common problem on Volvo 8-cylinder
I/O
engines. There is apparently a problem with valve timing being off - this
allows
the intake stroke to pull vacuum while an exhaust valve is still open,
thus
sucking water into the cylinders. Has anyone here heard of this or have
further
details ?

Thanks in advance !

Ralph

Not so uncommon and may be due to a malfunctioning of the exhaust/raw
water discharge circuit.
Sometimes it is just a vent that is plugged and permits a backflow of
water into the cylinders after shutting off the engine. The water, then,
seeps between the pistons and the cylinder walls into the sump.
Sometimes this problem, if not understood early, may cause the blow up of
the engine head at the next attempt to start the engine.

Anyway if you realize it right away you may prevent fatal consequences.
Flush the oil sump several times with new oil and brand new oil filters
letting the engine run between oil changes for few minutes. Repeat until
the oil becomes unmistakenly clear of water contamination; usually 2-3
times (or more) right away and then once more after few hours of
functioning. Be very careful to watch the oil pressure gauge: one of the
problems is that water in the system makes the pressure erratical and you
should never let the engine run with no oil pressure for more than few
seconds.

It happened to my old Perkins 4.108 but, after the cure, the engine
continued its normal life (well... hopefully... it happened two summers
ago!).

Daniel