Group,

I've found a couple of creeks I want to explore and I've decided to put
together the Bateau "Cheap Canoe". I don't expect much given that the plans
are free and the materials minimal. Anyone built one to these plans? Any
changes I should make? Is this a stable canoe (13' x 30") or is it
tender/tippy? Should I add a small keel? I'll likely use Luan and
epoxy/glass ( I have enough left over from other projects to go with the
"cheap" theme!).

Thanks in advance,

James

From what I've read (no real experience), pirogues (which this boat
falls under IMO) are relatively tippy. As long as you stay low in the
boat, you should be ok. Personally, from looking at the design, I'd add
an oak 1x1 keel down the center.

Maybe Jacques will chime in...
Ed

James W. Sloan wrote:
Group,

I've found a couple of creeks I want to explore and I've decided to put
together the Bateau "Cheap Canoe". I don't expect much given that the plans
are free and the materials minimal. Anyone built one to these plans? Any
changes I should make? Is this a stable canoe (13' x 30") or is it
tender/tippy? Should I add a small keel? I'll likely use Luan and
epoxy/glass ( I have enough left over from other projects to go with the
"cheap" theme!).

Thanks in advance,

James

all canoes are tippy. you have to get used to using them. like riding a bike.

flat bottom canoes track good. its not the flat bottom but the length to
beam ratio, curvature of the bottom fore-and-aft (called "rocker"),
and in a wind the height of the ends ("windage)" which deterime how well a
canoe tracks. a solo canoe is paddled heeled over sitting amidships to one
side which does put a hard chined canoe at a disadvantage. a lot of small
canoes are paddled flat with a double paddle like a kayak and they would
track better that way.

13 ft by 30 inches is normal for a solo canoe. the sides should be about 1
foot high. you can email the seller of the plans to ask what the capacity
is at 4" of draft and at 6" of freeboard. canoes are normally designed to
draw 4" in normal use. that's where they should perform best. a canoe with
less than 6" of freeboard is overloaded.

good luck.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Capital FreeNet www.ncf.ca Ottawa's free community network
website: www.ncf.ca/~ag384 "Tank, take me in."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

all canoes are tippy. you have to get used to using them. like riding a
bike.

Yep...I've managed to roll myself out of a 17 foot aluminum canoe in flat
calm water!


13 ft by 30 inches is normal for a solo canoe. the sides should be about 1
foot high.

OK...I just never had the proportions visualized. I was wondering if this
was close to "normal" for a solo canoe. The sides are cut 1 foot wide with a
1 3/8 relief for some rocker. Looks like the end result is 10 5/8 high by
the plans, given the nesting on two sheets, I'll add what's available as a
little extra freeboard.

you can email the seller of the plans to ask what the capacity
is at 4" of draft and at 6" of freeboard.

The plans were free from Jaques at bateau.com. I'll check the site for some
info, I hate to bug the guy on a freebie, especially for such a simple
boat!! What the heck, I'll just put her together and give it a shot. If its
too tender for me, I'll pass it along to a nephew.

Thanks,

James

I built a variation of the "Cheap Canoe" that I'm quite happy with. Yes, it
can feel a bit "tippy" when you get into it - especially depending on your
weight - I'm 220lbs. I've found that it can tip over quite far and actually
gets more "stiff" as it goes - until the gunwale gets under water .... I've
only capsized mine once and that was on purpose. It also works well on very
"thin" water - it practically floats on spit.

I didn't fibreglass my boat, but did use Luan for the construction. I
squeegeed epoxy onto the wood to make it water resistant and then put on a
couple of coats of paint. It's held up well for me and it's a lot cheaper
to build without the fibreglass even though it won't last as long.

I did add a small skeg and some floatation chambers to mine. The skeg has
helped with tracking quite a bit.

There's a discussion board over on bateau.com - or at least there was a
while ago. Lots of people discuss this design there.

--
Andrew Butchart

http://www.abutchartconsulting.com/sailing/ - The Floating Bear

"James W. Sloan" wrote in message
...
Group,

I've found a couple of creeks I want to explore and I've decided to put
together the Bateau "Cheap Canoe". I don't expect much given that the
plans
are free and the materials minimal. Anyone built one to these plans? Any
changes I should make? Is this a stable canoe (13' x 30") or is it
tender/tippy? Should I add a small keel? I'll likely use Luan and
epoxy/glass ( I have enough left over from other projects to go with the
"cheap" theme!).

Thanks in advance,

James






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PAMKILL (Wiz) wrote in message ...
James,

you've got a bone in your teeth now; run with it. I've been screwing my mouth
up when I read that a pirogue is "tippy", so I'll go ahead and out with it...
tippy is relative; take three boats in the same size range a baidarka, a
round-bottom (or multi-chine) canoe, and a pirogue. Go out paddling in each.
You'll come back raving about how stable the pirogue is.

Remember, these things, and their dugout predecessors, were designed to be
propelled by a (skilled) man poling the boat while *standing* near the stern.

I suspect you'll find it quite stable for your uses.




And I will add my 2 cents here. I say, use the luan, do not glass it,
just paint it and put it in the water. Glassing that boat will only
add weight and cost, still got a 5-10 year boat, max...
Scotty from SmallBoats.com


Cheers/The Fader


I hate to bug the guy on a freebie, especially for such a simple
boat!! What the heck, I'll just put her together and give it a shot. If its
too tender for me, I'll pass it along to a nephew.
"LABOR SVGIT"

That's exactly what I was interested in....I can get accustomed to the
"feel" of just about any boat, but true tippiness is another thing. Since we
have a substantial alligator population where I intend to use this thing, I
want to have some reasonable expectations before paddling off the marsh's
edge. I don't mind canoeing among them, I just try not to swim that much!!

What mods did you make to the original plan? I thought about adding an inch
or two of freeboard, enough to matter but not interfere with arm motion. I
also thought about some flotation chambers, perhaps in the stem & stern
areas. These should be easy enough to enclose and fill.

I'm sure I have enough tape to do the inside and outside seams, I might have
enough 50" 6oz. to do the bottom and outer sides. I'll definitely seal it
all well with epoxy. I was at Home Depot (I know...I know) today looking at
the ply they have in stock, saw something called "Sanderply" (not superply)
that looks a lot like 1/4 MDO although none of the help knew a thing about
it.

Thanks,

James
" I built a variation of the "Cheap Canoe" that I'm quite happy with. Yes,
it
can feel a bit "tippy" when you get into it - especially depending on your
weight - I'm 220lbs. I've found that it can tip over quite far and
actually
gets more "stiff" as it goes - until the gunwale gets under water ....
I've
only capsized mine once and that was on purpose. It also works well on
very
"thin" water - it practically floats on spit.

I didn't fibreglass my boat, but did use Luan for the construction. I
squeegeed epoxy onto the wood to make it water resistant and then put on a
couple of coats of paint. It's held up well for me and it's a lot cheaper
to build without the fibreglass even though it won't last as long.

I did add a small skeg and some floatation chambers to mine. The skeg has
helped with tracking quite a bit.

There's a discussion board over on bateau.com - or at least there was a
while ago. Lots of people discuss this design there.

--
Andrew Butchart

http://www.abutchartconsulting.com/sailing/ - The Floating Bear

"James W. Sloan" wrote in message
...
Group,

I've found a couple of creeks I want to explore and I've decided to put
together the Bateau "Cheap Canoe". I don't expect much given that the
plans
are free and the materials minimal. Anyone built one to these plans? Any
changes I should make? Is this a stable canoe (13' x 30") or is it
tender/tippy? Should I add a small keel? I'll likely use Luan and
epoxy/glass ( I have enough left over from other projects to go with the
"cheap" theme!).

Thanks in advance,

James






-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 18:10:40 -0400, "James W. Sloan"
wrote:

That's exactly what I was interested in....I can get accustomed to the
"feel" of just about any boat, but true tippiness is another thing. Since we
have a substantial alligator population where I intend to use this thing, I
want to have some reasonable expectations before paddling off the marsh's
edge. I don't mind canoeing among them, I just try not to swim that much!!

What mods did you make to the original plan? I thought about adding an inch
or two of freeboard, enough to matter but not interfere with arm motion.
snip

As I recall, the nesting plans for the Cheap Canoe are really tight.
Your extra inch or two of freeboard might double your plywood
requirement.

- Rick Tyler

--
"Ignorant voracity -- a wingless vulture -- can soar only into the
depths of ignominy." Patrick O'Brian

Ed Edelenbos wrote in message ...
From what I've read (no real experience), pirogues (which this boat
falls under IMO) are relatively tippy. As long as you stay low in the
boat, you should be ok. Personally, from looking at the design, I'd add
an oak 1x1 keel down the center.

Almost. The real problem with Pirogues, and I have built and paddled a
few, is that initially they were used by cajuns to stand and pole
around the Bayou with no real concern as to which way the boat was
pointed... This creates a problem however when you want the boat to
paddle or row in straight, especially if there is any movement to the
water. Now when you convert this to a paddle or row boat you want to
have the directional stability of a rear skeg (can be full length) I
usually have mine start at 3/4 x 3/4 in the bow as you suggested, but
about mid hull start to taper out to about 2 1/2 to 3 inches high a
few inches forward of the stern. It is still a little tough to paddle
these things, I have not built Bateau's version, but the skeg helps a
lot. Maybe Jaques has one in the plan, forgive me if I did not look
and that is the case... if it is already there... nevermind.
Scotty from SmallBoats.com



Maybe Jacques will chime in...
Ed

James W. Sloan wrote:
Group,

I've found a couple of creeks I want to explore and I've decided to put
together the Bateau "Cheap Canoe". I don't expect much given that the plans
are free and the materials minimal. Anyone built one to these plans? Any
changes I should make? Is this a stable canoe (13' x 30") or is it
tender/tippy? Should I add a small keel? I'll likely use Luan and
epoxy/glass ( I have enough left over from other projects to go with the
"cheap" theme!).

Thanks in advance,

James

Good points below and want to add that the old "pirogues" were heavy. Some
were made with 1" thick planks, the weight added stability, inertia.
Our modern plywood boats are light, easier to move but less stable.


--
Jacques
http://www.bateau.com

"Wiz" wrote in message
...
James,

you've got a bone in your teeth now; run with it. I've been screwing my
mouth
up when I read that a pirogue is "tippy", so I'll go ahead and out with
it...
tippy is relative; take three boats in the same size range a baidarka, a
round-bottom (or multi-chine) canoe, and a pirogue. Go out paddling in
each.
You'll come back raving about how stable the pirogue is.

Remember, these things, and their dugout predecessors, were designed to be
propelled by a (skilled) man poling the boat while *standing* near the
stern.

I suspect you'll find it quite stable for your uses.

Cheers/The Fader


I hate to bug the guy on a freebie, especially for such a simple
boat!! What the heck, I'll just put her together and give it a shot. If
its
too tender for me, I'll pass it along to a nephew.
"LABOR SVGIT"